The online racing simulator
roll cages in all cars
(151 posts, started )
Kids, kids, kids!!!! Stop the fighting!

You can define racing any way you want. It can be on the street with road cars, on your feet with shoes, without shoes, sandles, or whatever you wear. It can be with bicycles, or motorcycles, or frogs. The fact is, LFS is circuit racing, and you can not race on the street with normal road cars. You can only race on the track, and on the track they would require you to have a roll cage.

LFS is not being developed with drifting, cruising, illegal street racing, or anything else but proper circuit racing. That's all we have and if you would be required to have a roll cage on a circuit IRL, then we need roll cages in all cars in LFS because it is wheel to wheel circuit racing. It's the immersion factor.

If you can't use a piece of software that is being developed for a purpose that is different than you want, then go find a different software. If IRL, you had to have a giant inflatable pumpkin on the roof of your car for circuit racing, then LFS needs to have a giant inflatable pumpkin on the roof of the cars. Meaning, if it is there IRL in circuit racing, it has to be there in LFS.


And stop slagging on the cruise servers. Yes, you can go out and 'cruise' in your real car if you'd like. They attempted to create a game out of the cruise servers that they can not do IRL, at least if you don't want to get in trouble. The problem isn't the cruise server idea. The problem is the fact that they are run and admin'ed by the immature that can't create proper rules and can't even follow their own rules. It could be fun if it were all run by the mature. Many of us have done the cops and robbers thing and you guys know it was quite fun. It was fun because it was mature people doing it to have fun, not kids arguing over everything like a bunch of winy babies.
Quote from mrodgers :That's all we have and if you would be required to have a roll cage on a circuit IRL, then we need roll cages in all cars in LFS because it is wheel to wheel circuit racing. It's the immersion factor.

Do we NEED them? I mean, LFS has been played quite happily since 2002. The cars that were there from day one didn't have roll cages then, and they don't now. It's fairly clear from this 5 year period of not adding roll-cages, that the developers don't feel there is a NEED for them in the "road cars". I mean sure, it feels a little like an episode of Best Motoring to have a bunch of aesthetically 100% standard cars in a race door to door, or Gran Turismo even, and we all feel that LFS is more "serious" than that. I just don't think there's any great urgency or "need" as you put it. If they come, they come, if not then we just keep playing as is, and only boredom will bring us around to this discussion again (but I'll lend you some drinking straws to stick to your monitor if it still bothers you so much No extra charge for the 3d effect either).
Quote from Bandit77 :
your second point/question is valid (is that the word, probably not). probably the rollcage only makes no difference, but it it could be the beginning of removing all "close to production" cars. I see this as a problem, not the rollcage per se.

Some club racing cars are completely standard bar the safety modifications, some of them are driven to circuits (the Morgan being one) and some of them are daily drivers. The inclusion of a rollcage IRL can massively reduce chassis flex (in extreme cases removing the bodyshell as a structural component) but chassis flex isn't currently simulated in LFS and generally speaking making a standard cars chassis too stiff without major suspension rethinking produces a slower car.

Actually my suggestion for what to do with the road cars would be (and always has been) to reduce the number of setup options and make them much much closer to modified road cars than perfect race cars with limitless suspension and gear ratio changes.
Quote from ajp71 :
Actually my suggestion for what to do with the road cars would be (and always has been) to reduce the number of setup options and make them much much closer to modified road cars than perfect race cars with limitless suspension and gear ratio changes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah that's the way I'd like it too.
[off topic - slightly] Can someone change the thread title please - I was expecting people wanting a gauge to tell you how many times you've rolled your UF1/XFG over a high kerb, and scores from three judges[/off topic]

Why not have roll cages as a server option. i.e. Cruise Servers could have no roll cages and racing ones have roll cages. (Don't know about drifting) Then, everyone is happy?
Quote from J@tko :[off topic - slightly] Can someone change the thread title please - I was expecting people wanting a gauge to tell you how many times you've rolled your UF1/XFG over a high kerb, and scores from three judges[/off topic]

Why not have roll cages as a server option. i.e. Cruise Servers could have no roll cages and racing ones have roll cages. (Don't know about drifting) Then, everyone is happy?

sorry my fault but i didn't know how to change the title,i did correct my posts
Quote from swingkid :sorry my fault but i didn't know how to change the title,i did correct my posts

Sorry - I wasn't aiming it directly at you - I did understand that when I got here, that you meant roll cages!

It was supposed to be a little humour - but I bet no-one found it funny!
no sweat we can use some humour in this tread
Quote from sinbad :Do we NEED them?........

Do we need them? Yes, they would and should be there as circuit driven cars. Do we need them immediately? No, like you said, we've been fine without them for the last 5 years. We don't need them before proper damage system. We don't need them before improved collision detection. But it isn't any more or less important than proper cockpits in the race cars. It is a graphics issue, so not Scawen's part of the list. If Eric asked if we'd rather have roll cages in the road cars before he worked on a possible new car class for LFS, then the answer is obviously, get us some new cars. But the GTR interiors are supposedly being released with the next patch and that holds about the same importance as road car cages. The cages isn't something that needs to be done right away, for the next patch, but needs to be put on the list.

The arguement is threefold here. 1. roll cages should be in all road cars, just a simple suggestion from someone that doesn't need to be rectified immediately. 2. roll cages shouldn't because they wouldn't be 'road cars' any more, which is countered by the fact that any circuit raced car would be required to have one. And 3 is the cruise/drift arguement that has nothing to do with the developement of LFS.

I personally don't really care one way or another. I don't care about the GTR interiors either. I can't see either when I'm sitting in the car because I don't see hardly any of the interior. I'm just stating my opinion on why the suggestion and discussion of roll cages in the road cars should be in LFS.
Quote from J@tko :Why not have roll cages as a server option. i.e. Cruise Servers could have no roll cages and racing ones have roll cages. (Don't know about drifting) Then, everyone is happy?

Actually thats a pretty good idea!

Why does (nearly) everyone seem to have a problem with cruise servers? I personally find only racing highly boring, so I switch onto cruise servers every now and then. Yet everyone seems to be flaming cruisers in this thread...We've done nothing wrong by putting a line down the center of a track, and only voiced our opinions by asking that rollcages be made optional (which I still cant see is such a big deal) ane you 24/7 racers had some sort of sissy-fit, saying its not real enough to be made optional, even though in real life it's optional whether you want to race or cruise...

Whats the big problem with "not using LFS for its original intention"? If cruise servers mean more racers join LFS, where's your problem?

TBH this thread is becoming silly, as seen in Gunn's post...
Quote from dougie-lampkin :even though in real life it's optional whether you want to race or cruise...

Quote from lfs.net : LFS S2 is a serious racing simulator.

You haven't bought a cruising game or general car driving game you have bought a serious racing simulator. For this reason I think it's completely fair to assume that cruisers views should not be taken into consideration when developing LFS, of course no one's stopping you posting and it's ultimately the Devs decision but I think a lot of people will be disappointed if LFS development gets hindered by silly requests and moans from people who've adapted a second use out of a product. If you can change LFS to give the game play you want then do so if not go and find another game to modify to your desire, surely rF would be far better suited to that kind of modification with some effort anyway?

The concept of making rollcages optional is silly IMO if there was a genuine demand or desire for a server option for rollcages by racers racing on race servers then I think it should be up for consideration but not for cruisers.

Cruise servers still use the UFR and XFR so why would adding them to other cars cause you a problem?
what's the point of rollcages anyway now? If I roll my car on a high kerb, be it an GTR, SS or LX, my helmet still goes through the roof as if there is no cage at all.. (except for SS and LX's offcourse)
The S1 streetcars look like old 80's (or early 90's) models. Where there rollcages in all racingcars 17 years ago?
Quote from marzman :The S1 streetcars look like old 80's (or early 90's) models. Where there rollcages in all racingcars 17 years ago?

If they are circuit racing old cars in the year 2007, yes there probably are. Doesn't matter how old the cars are. We are not racing in the 80's, we are in 2007
Yes, 17 years ago pretty much anything raced needed a roll cage of some sort.
Quote from Gunn :+1 to roll cages, no number plates, and performance tyres.

+1 to you sir!

and there should be an option for street legal and option for race spec (roll cage, no plates, tyres, no radio and nav etc)
I guess by this logic (that all cars should have rollcages) then all cars should have plumbed in fire extinguishers, timing struts, FIA approved seats and harnesses and the MRT should be banned for not having enough ground clearance.
Fire Extinguishers - yes please
Timing Struts - As in for sprints/hillclimbs? Maybe on autocross tracks, yes.
FIA approved seats - maybe they already meet local racing authority specifications...
Harnesses - yes please
MRT - huh? Is it too low? What ride heights must it run at. Is this just an issue with LFS allowing to many setup options?
Quote from tristancliffe :MRT - huh? Is it too low? What ride heights must it run at. Is this just an issue with LFS allowing to many setup options?

3 inches minimum ground clearance for all MSA events I believe.
General MSA regulation is 40mm for car racing, autocross etc

From 2008 Formula Student Regs (and I have no reason to believe these have altered drastically since the MRT5 era)

3.2 Chassis Rules

3.2.1 Suspension
The car must be equipped with a fully operational suspension system with shock
absorbers, front and rear, with usable wheel travel of at least 50.8 mm (2 inches),
25.4 mm (1 inch) jounce and 25.4 mm (1 inch) rebound, with driver seated. The
judges reserve the right to disqualify cars which do not represent a serious attempt at
an operational suspension system or which demonstrate handling inappropriate for
an autocross circuit.
All suspension mounting points must be visible at Technical Inspection, either by
direct view or by removing any covers.

3.2.2 Ground Clearance
The ground clearance must be sufficient to prevent any portion of the car (other than
tires) from touching the ground during track events, and with the driver aboard there
must be a minimum of 25.4 mm (1 inch) of static ground clearance under the
complete car at all times.
So I guess Formula Student isn't and MSA event.
Yes, it is (Formula Student UK).

But the MSA is allowed to give specific regulations to series' if it so desires. The Formula Student waiver is for 1" ride heights
Quote from tristancliffe :Yes, it is (Formula Student UK).

But the MSA is allowed to give specific regulations to series' if it so desires. The Formula Student waiver is for 1" ride heights

I see OK maybe we'll let the MRT stay then hehe
Quote from mantvisrep :i wish to have these seats in lfs http://www.rallyracingshop.gr/images/Spg%20XL%20Hans.jpg

I've driven a car with seats like that. When you have your harness on and you look left or right all you see is the seat's built in head protection. Nightmare on the road.

Still, doesn't matter that much in LFS - seems most people don't bother with look left/right anyway hehe

roll cages in all cars
(151 posts, started )
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