I,m sticking with my opinion ,and standing by it .
I have a different take on this , nothing more nothing less
Just makes me laugh at the old "red is a better colour than blue" and then having a bunch of posts after that dissecting what's been said to prove that statement is wrong and the person who said it is a fool, when its nothing more than a difference of opinion.
There is no difference of opinion here - just difference of attitude !
Here are the two sides of the discussion
Side 1:
"Me bored, Me want new stuff, ME WANT NEW STUFF NOW! why not me have? it not fair. you all suck, I'm leaving etc. etc."
Side 2:
"We all want improvements! HOWEVER, there are very good reasons why they take as long as they do. Here are the reasons (many valid reasons follow)"
Side 1:
"Bah, you are all fanboys, you can't take criticism etc. etc. etc. etc."
Side 2:
Pretty much rephrases what they said first time around in the forlorn hope it is absorbed and understood.
Side 3: (usually has joined the party late)
Stop arguing guys - it's just a difference of opinion.
Side 1:
"Yeh Yeh, It's just differences of opinion - I'm laughing at you Side 2 for taking this seriously!"
Side 2:
Shakes head slowly in disbelief and dispair.
------------------
Of course this is a parody, but it's close to how this discussion often pans out.
I just don't get how folks can obviously enjoy and appreciate LFS, but at the same time criticize the process that has resulted in LFS!
Many of the demanded changes to the process would damage the game and the community - the overall result would be less good.
Nobody is suggesting that it is a perfect project or a perfect development methodology - there is no such thing, but it is proving to be a very good and very successful one.
How you guys have the arrogance to think that you know better when you consider the success of the project and look at the background of the dev team is way beyond me.
If it's going too slow for you, just take a break and play something else. Most folks who are long time LFS players disappear for a while every so often, but they usually come back (heh. I raced macEST last night !) - No game, no matter how good can keep your enthusiasm at a high level for years without a break.
Could Scavier develop faster with more people? Yes.
Will he get more people? No, because the whole point of LFS was to get away from development teams.
Is the number of players decreasing? No
Are the devs able to live off LFS? Yes
Will LFS continue? Yes
Will we get another patch? Yes
When? When it's ready, as always.
But I want it now? Then LFS isn't really for you is it. You bought it understanding it was one bloke coding, with a particular 'vision'.
You're all fanboys! Yes, to some extent we are, because we're attached and loyal to a product that suits us, being made in a way we think is great.
I'll go and buy xxxx instead then! Okay. See you when the patch comes out.
I must agree seen as is its my teams colours (Green and Black that is-Not just green that WOULD be lame.)
O/T Just buy another game to keep you occupied if you cant wait 'til Scawen and Co. wave their magic wand(the same wand-all them hold on to it) and releases yet another great patch.
Have you thought that there is something wrong in modern world, if company does not increase income every year it is considered bad, everything must be new, also in software constantly you need to get new thigns, if you think this by common sense it is awfully wrong and can't work forver.
That is what I think when I see such thread as this
As far as Richo is concerned, he's paid his money, he's perfectly entitled to ask the question and have an opinion. Maybe some of the replys to his posts came across as a tad aggresive, but i don't think any angst was intended towards him, or from him, right ?
Personally i have to admit that when i watch the SRT thingys, LFS can sometimes seem to be lacking a certain something when set alongside some of the "competition". From a purely asthetic point of view (and maybe a bit of romance too :really the new F1 1955 and 1979 mods for Rfactor look fantastic, although there's nothing about the demo that's inspired me to actually buy Rfactor as yet(find it lacking in soul) Those new mods may just sway me, dunno ?.
I think the REAL direct competition to LFS will be iRacing, if it ever materialises. Then there's the competition from other genre's, Flight Sims, FPS, RPG etc etc. But, LFS will never ever die, (as long as we have computers,) people are still playing Pacman and Sonic the Hedgehog for crying out loud !
I've said this before and i'll say it again, the Devs are simply allowing us to join in with a personal project, a hobby that turned into a viable income. I get the feeling if only a hundred people had bought licences', LFS would still be the same as it is today. The forums would'nt be as much fun, and maybe Scawen and his missus would be fixing up the bathroom in their caravan instead of their house. But, LFS is what it is, it happens when it happens and it does what it does.
For a few reasons I've not raced online for a while now, the main one being the ulcer generating/hair pulling out experience called Armed Assault, honestly, i've never been more frustrated with any game my entire life. Yet i know that LFS will always be there when i need it, it shows me how a game should be built, it's like that faithfull old Golden Retriever that will always be by your side, always gives you a warm happy soppy welcome when you "get home" and will always keep the wolves at bay.... I'm waffling again, but.........ugh bollocks, i'll shut up now :guilty:
To sum up, if anyone's not happy with the development time of LFS then go play something else, do a jigsaw puzzle, see how many jaffa cakes you can cram into your mouth (FTR 8 is the benchmark), the Devs won't mind, the game won't mind, the community won't mind. And when a new patch is released, come back, you'd be most welcome (well, most of you would )
I don't want them to finish developing!! When and if they do all the people that want the latest and greatest will disappear very quickly, just like every other game out there:-( Then you will see the fan base disappear I think. There will always be a core community but all the hangers on that need new all the time will go! The way it is now keeps everyone coming back and waiting and disscussing and disscussing and disscussing!!!!!
Yep, that is how it goes, I just wish that there would be bit of more usage of that gray stuff inside heads, we could break loose from wheel of doom, but I know, we never will
Apartment prices did show signs in US, it is just matter of time now as oil price is hitting ceiling too, hopefully everyone has paid their loans to minimum
Well, this is one topic that you're not allowed to disagree or disent on this forum with out certain folks treating you like you're an ADD robot on Coffee Crisp. Expect to get condescended to for even mentioning that LFS development is becoming eternal.
I was under the impression that opinions led to attitudes quite often? What a crock indeed!
Very nice not-so-subtle condescention. You also added a 3rd side though...
How about this side: It's totally possible to support LFS and still think it's taking a long LONG time. Do you even realize that? It doesn't appear to me that you do, which is surprizing since you're an intelligent guy. This is a board that we all have the right to post what we think, feel etc (within reason) and all you're doing is undermining that.
Quit acting like taking 6 years for just over half a product is the only way to get a good product; because that's crap. LFS could've just as easily wound up where it is through any other process. When iRacing comes out, let's all say it's crap because more than one person developed it :rolleyes:.
Omniscience must be fascinating!
First of all, I'm not demanding any changes to the process. I don't have an ultimatum to my point of view. I just think it takes too long, and that's it. I don't have any suggestion on how to change that because as you pointed out eariler; I'm well aware of how this place works. But I still have the right to think differently about it than you, and express it. The issue is you calling everyone who voices their "concerns" about the timespan immature, basically stupid, and so forth.
Ah yes, the standard reply. Well, I have, and do. Guess what? I still think the timespan is ridiculous.
Yes he has a gift for stating the obvious, which is less than he thinks any one who is dissatisfied with the LFS development time can comprehend apparantly.
Why do you guys have to link ... "chronological displeasure (TM)" with tantrum like impatience and threatening to leave etc?
Not really, just more blind accusations and vigilante justice of the protectors
I don't want them to "finish" either, just maybe provide something that actually affects driving (which is the point of the SIM) for more realism in the last 12 months would be dandy, if not unreasonable. False starts (and the preload to some extent) is the only thing noteworthy enough to come to mind.
Well the waiting part is right anyway. We used to have good discussions about lots of different topics but everything's been beaten to death over and over because there really isn't anything to talk about with LFS for now, which is why these threads keep coming up.
Is LFS great? Yes, physics wise.
Is it taking eons? Yes
Can anyone change that? No
Do I have a right to talk about it? Fundamentally yes; but based on this forum, no.
A: haven't been here that long. So its mostly new to me
B: Like to hear everyones veiwpoint
C:Fu*&ing love this game. Mostly for the competition, not the graphics, or physics, or tweaking setups(because I suck at it!)
The opinion and the attitude are not (at least directly) causally linked. Sometimes it seem like they are, because a persons response is usually a combination of opinion and attitude... (so... yes, a crock, but of gold not sh1t )
Totally agree. Its obvious that LFS development has slowed (with caveats*) a lot in the past two years - can't argue with that, I myself only play in short bursts of a few weeks with long gaps inbetween - its been that way for years now.
* (my usual answer)... law of diminishing returns - as the game matures, each man hour will provide a smaller 'amount' of perceived improvement.
Where have I stated that I don't think LFS development has taken a long time ?
It runs both ways... you can say what you think, I can say what I think and 'they' can say what 'they' think. Just because my comprehension of the situation is different from yours doesn't mean you are being undermined. (not that I believe for a minute that you feel so threatened that anything I could say would stop you posting)
I disagree (what a surprise lol)
It could've been of an equivalent quality, but it would not have been the same. (I'm talking about both the game itself and the wider 'LFS Experience')
hmm, I don't remember calling anyone immature and stupid...
Mind you, if you are not asking for changes, or defending the status quo, what is the point in posting on the subject other than to moan and whine like a child about it
we know... lol
:fence:
We will fight them on the beaches (of Fern Bay)
I am concerned that Scawen might take 6 months to poduce the next patch, 90% of which is related to AI and it will be a massive disappointment as it is not something a lot of people (certainly no one that I know) are interested in.
Mind you, if he slips in a Club version of Westhill and makes a new track at South City (like SO Long but you come off the flyover earlier into a downhill hairpin - just need to remove the tyre barriers) I'd be happy for a while.
I'm not opposed to the discussion as much as I'm simply bored by the frequency of the discussion. FTR, I'd love if changes were farmed out to us every day. It's just not a realistic desire. It's a 3-man team with a particular vision and a particular way of paying attention to detail that I'm more than fine with. That said, I've spent more time in the last year doing LFS-related things that don't involve driving in LFS, so I guess it could be argued that I'm also bored of LFS.. but I've still driven more miles in LFS over the last year than I have driven miles on the road. I agree with Tristan and Colin, but then I would, cuz I'm a fanboy and we're just robots..
Sure.. but it doesn't achieve anything because there's nothing to achieve. It's not so much my fanboyism that stirs me to respond in the thread as it is, in this - the great green age of conservation - a spontaneous gag reflex manifested in resistance to the wanton wasting of energy . It's all just politics
Since you started taking rFactor and rFactormods in the discussion. A new LFS version does mean stuff will be missed. CTRA needed an update for patch X, Ghostcar , slickmod, smokemod and LFSTweak are incompatable with Patch X. It's not only the hotlaps.
But the CTRA is not required for online racing, neither is ghostcar (a horrid mod that removes any shred of realism from hotlapping), slickmod (a hack), smokemod (a hack) and LFSTweak (a hack, only just acceptable to the devs but I think they'd rather it didn't exist).
rFactor NEEDS it's mods, because without them it's a complete and utter waste of time, with dire cars, very very few tracks etc etc.
That's the point I was making. The core essentials of LFS (all the cars, all the tracks and all the physics) remain at all times.
One of the main components of Patch X was a re-write of InSim. Scawen didn't spring any surprises on us in that respect when Patch X was released.. the programmers who write all of the programs you list, were not only told of the up-coming changes, they were very much involved in suggesting many of the new features, and helping to future-proof the whole InSim aspect of LFS.
It was a one-time rewrite, and it was specifically about taking everything that everyone's ever learned about connecting external apps to LFS, and building those lessons and wishes into LFS, and it won't need doing again
(Green and Black that is-Not just green that WOULD be lame.)
the new F1 1955 and 1979 mods for Rfactor look fantastic, although there's nothing about the demo that's inspired me to actually buy Rfactor as yet(find it lacking in soul) Those new mods may just sway me, dunno ?. 
)
. It's all just politics