TOcA could compete with LFS any day...

Quote from WakkyDude :

TOcA could compete with LFS any day...

Haha, never!
Toca had the worst physics ever, and the overal game was quite bad.
But thats is imo

Quote from The Very End :

Haha, never!
Toca had the worst physics ever, and the overal game was quite bad.
But thats is imo

Toca 1 and 2 were pretty good! Not as much as LFS of course, it was another era but convincing!
After it went right into the abyss!

I still prefer Toca 2 to Rtacktor!

edit: I'm talking about Toca 2 touring car, not Toca 2 race driver!

Quote from UruNico2641 :

RFactor- looks nice, looks like a good enemy against LFS, but 60 ulimited trial time? What the heck is that?:arge: Thats a big Negative response for me.

U got a 60 min trial of R-Factor? I've got an unlimited one! Pretty bad though, especially with keyboard. LFS is better, IMO.

Quote from ajp71 :

The kerbs in LFS though are mostly easy to take, the reasons for this is some of them are flat and smooth, you do get that IRL but still there seems to be a lot of grip on them, you'd never want to be braking on a kerb IRL in LFS you can get away with it.

I find the LFS curbs more slippery than those in GTR2. Atleast, you've gotta be slightly careful when you're going over them. In GTR2, I don't think I've discerned any difference between the tarmac and the curb in terms of grip.

The green criss-cross runoff at Blackwood though seems quite grippy.

Quote from Hyperactive :

As I see it, LFS and rfactor have quite similar target groups while the nk pro is aims strictly for the realism, sometimes at all costs, making it too hard for the average driver.

I think it is a great pity that nk pro was left as it is. It has all the ingredients to be something really awesome, something that was once available for LFS too. But for all sims, I can't see any direct competitor, they are different enough to live on their own.

But tbh, I don't see any competition. Not because one is better than other, but because all are average in their own ways. Even GPL is just fine with today's standards

I don't think netKar is that difficult. Have you been through the era where you had 5 choices of flight-sims at any time? Flight-sims have much steeper learning curve than any race sim ever, but people managed just fine. Ok, not so fine since that genre is currently more dead than sim racing. But clicking a few (2) buttons to start a car isn't that much more difficult.

I also hope netKar gets its deserved polish because the foundation seems really good. Who knows, I might get it when that darned patch eventually comes out LOL!

Quote from The Very End :

Haha, never!
Toca had the worst physics ever, and the overal game was quite bad.
But thats is imo

Indeed the Toca's (aka RaceDriver) are really bad. It's like stirring that G25 through molasses in a vain attempt to steer a boat. Not even NFS is that unresponsive/filtered/damped whatever. I guess they couldn't decide if they wanted a pivot physics or a 4-point one.

But they do have decent graphics which runs super fast!

Netkar Pro is not so difficult apart from the damage model which is sooo sensitive, touch wheels and your race is over

Regarding curbs: a video of a McLaren F1, driven by David Coulthard in 2002 at Spa, and a 2003 Ferrari (not sure of driver) at Monza using the curbing. On a side note, regarding "realisim", the cars viewed in replays of various racing games never seem to truly duplicate the responses of real cars. To me, it's mostly suspension movment, and how the cars drift (for the ones that do drift). I'm not sure if it's the cars, the tracks, or some other factor, but although racing games are close, they just don't look "right", something is just missing. I think this is why Simbin made the comment that these are racing games, not simulations.


Real F1, 2002 at Spa:
spaf1.wmv

LFS F1 at Blackwood by MacEST:
lfsblf1.wmv

Real F1, 2003 at Monza:
mnzaf1.wmv

Quote from JeffR :

Real F1, 2002 at Spa:
spaf1.wmv

They're flat kerbs that can be driven on, not like the more aggressive ones that are not normally driven on, like the ones at Blackwood. Fern Bay has even more aggressive kerbs that can still be driven on without any real penalty. There is no way that the Fern Bay Club and Green chicanes would be driven like they are IRL.

The kerbs at Monza are more aggressive than the ones at Spa but still no way near as aggressive as the ones at Blackwood.

Quote from ajp71 :

They're flat kerbs that can be driven on, not like the more aggressive ones that are not normally driven on, like the ones at Blackwood. Fern Bay has even more aggressive kerbs that can still be driven on without any real penalty. There is no way that the Fern Bay Club and Green chicanes would be driven like they are IRL.

The kerbs at Monza are more aggressive than the ones at Spa but still no way near as aggressive as the ones at Blackwood.

Since LFS is supposed to be a simulation oriented racing game, then why not make the curbing similar to what's found in real life?

I've never tried nkpro but have always been curious about it as namie had a lot to like about it (although not enough to devote time with it over lfs). I obviously then can't comment much on it but I happened to visit the forum at rsc and read the thread about what people love about nkpro and it was all stuff that I can get in lfs already, seemingly to a standard as good or better, without all the problems.

My vote goes to Richard Burns Rally, and second goes to LFS.
1.) RBR is what made me want to buy a steering wheel set, and when I started playing with my logitech formula force gp, it just became SO alive, and then there was the czesh plugin for online competition, than there were new cars (really awesome ones) so I played RBR for a long time, and it needed constant training. Then there came the n4 and s1600, which brought rbr in to a new level of sim-racing, the game has survived for quite a few years now only on its fan-base, new mods , updates etc, and they are very high quality. The only drawback are the tracks :/ you just want more ! and the new tracks that are coming now ar not on par with the original ones, but RBR is the best bargain sim-racing game, I mean, you get SOOOO much for so little. RBR is a different level of sim-racing, it is fun, when it is taking seriously, and I think, that a steering wheel set is a must to enjoy this one.
2.) LFS is the common racers sim-racer, cauz it is as I see by the number of people playing, very enjoyable with keyboard/mouse, which is surprising.. LFS shines through with the multiplayer and its levels of difficulty, from an golf to a firebreathing gtr. LFS is not complete yet, it has its cons, but it is very enjoyable, and offers much fun at not very high cost or gear needed.
3.) pretty much GTR/RACE....and the others

I played the nKpro demo and i think it is very good and very realistic although it does have problems, specificly online where not many play ATM which should be one of the best aspects of any racing sim, LFS is still 1 of the best sims but i think nKpro will be very close to LFS in the future.

Oh and about rFactor, i think it sucks piss !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^^

Quote from JeffR :

Since LFS is supposed to be a simulation oriented racing game, then why not make the curbing similar to what's found in real life?

Aggressive kerbs like we have on a lot of LFS tracks are realistic. The very flat kerbs found at most modern F1 tracks have been made much less aggressive to pander to the demands of teams who can't cope with bumpy challenging circuits. IIRC a few years ago there were even complaints from teams about anti-cutting markers at Spa breaking front wings

Quote from ajp71 :

Aggressive kerbs like we have on a lot of LFS tracks are realistic. The very flat kerbs found at most modern F1 tracks have been made much less aggressive to pander to the demands of teams who can't cope with bumpy challenging circuits.

The issue is high downforce and low clearance. Race cars break if the surface or curbing is too harsh.

realistic - So which real world tracks have aggressive curbs?

Most of the circuits that MotoGP and F1 don't visit

Quote from JeffR :

The issue is high downforce and low clearance. Race cars break if the surface or curbing is too harsh.

The solution is not to drive on them then.

Quote :

realistic - So which real world tracks have aggressive curbs?

Some tracks like Pau and the 'ring have kerbs that would (and do) simply destroy suspensions if you try and drive on them like you can the kerbs at Fern Bay, look at the number of DNFs from suspension failure in a typical F3 race at Pau.

Lots of tracks have kerbs somewhere in between the F1 circuits and the extreme kerbs of older circuits. Generally kerbs are getting less aggressive, which is a bit of a shame really as there's nothing wrong with having to drive on the prescribed racing circuit rather than all the rumble strips.

I`ll quote kart racer, that made a good post that points out somethings, take a look :

Quote :

The graphics could be updated. The car selection isn't as great as it could be. The tracks do have a sort of "dull" feeling.

Thankfully, most of those attributes are not priority right now. If they were, we'd end up with a rFactor or Race 07. Don't get me wrong, I play (and enjoy) rFactor,GTR2 and Netkar Pro. Its just that they can't hold my interest for as long as LFS.

I enjoy the other sims, but not as much as I enjoy LFS and to be honest, I probably wasted my money on them. rFactor, GTR2 and NKpro all have different qaulities but tend to lack more than they contain.

GPL was the only sim that had me addicted to just plain driving/racing. Look at the community that sim had and continues to have! Currently that sim is outdated in every way, but with strong physics and a great net code, GPL continues to be one of the best sims around. It had one type of car and around a dozen tracks. The feeling of the physics and the close, competitive, consistent and structured community made for a experience I could never get tired of.

GTR2 has your real cars and your real tracks, but lacks a "connection" feeling if you ask me. I don't feel like I'm driving a car. The netcode is horrendous and the cars visibly look like they are floating in and out of the track like boats...even in single player replays sometimes. The times are supposedly close to its real life counterparts, but thats it. Its a "hey look, this is a real car and wow! this sim is so real the times are close to the real thing!"....then you're bored already.

rFactor has the selection, anything you want and anywhere you want. With all that comes a sense of dilution in the actual racing; the racers/leagues/hosts/talent is spread too thin. Not to mention the confusion of matching track versions and mod versions and patches and car version...ahh blah blah...Thats why we don't need tons of cars and tracks yet.
Netkar Pro is a great example of a sim that is and was underhyped and has amazing potential. Sadly, I find it difficult to think that NKpro will or even can make a strong come back, with a community that felt abandoned. No worries there, because we have communication. The dev's are busy, but the still frequent the forums.

You don't think that we've had dozens and dozens of month on end periods without updates since 2002? People have complained about the update frequency ever since the sim first caught on. Thankfully, the dev's stuck to their plan. They've always surprised us with features,listened to our complaints, fixed our issues and concentrated on creating the best online racing simulator there is. That will not stop, this is just a dry time...and tbh....that means they are working on creating, updating and fixing the features that make this sim so great.

I want real tracks, I want real cars, I want more updates and I want better graphics. If they followed those "wants", we would end up with either a sim that has a great selection but too much rough, unfinished and unpolished content(RF), real cars and tracks...but no real "feel"(GTR2),a burnt out development team(Racing Legends,anybody?) or a unpolished abandoned gem(NKP).

Instead, they are building that part of the sim that gets people addicted...that part that lets you "feel" like your driving and that part that allows for great close racing with a great community.

Its difficult to see, but we all love LFS because of things that aren't so apparent at first. Its no surprise that the first thing people notice when they get bored is the lack of visual quality,apparent fictionally based car selection and lack of real world comparisons.

The Developers know what they are doing, the updates are not as frequent right now for a reason. Trust them. They, after all, made the very thing you are thinking about right now. The thing you are spending time reading about, the thing you use enough to get you almost emotionally attached.The thing you beg for more of, because of the feeling this thing called LFS give you. Its the physics and the net code that builds a great sim and this one is being built as I write this. Lets let them and help them create the best online simulation available, in return they will throw us some new content along the way to keep everybody interested. I just hope they continue doing what they have been, because if they do, this sim is only going to get consistently and astonishingly better as time goes on.

Quote from ajp71 :

Lots of tracks have kerbs somewhere in between the F1 circuits and the extreme kerbs of older circuits. Generally kerbs are getting less aggressive, which is a bit of a shame really as there's nothing wrong with having to drive on the prescribed racing circuit rather than all the rumble strips.

Except that because of mistakes made by drivers or being forced off track by another driver causes the cars to be severly damages if the curbs are too "aggressive". If it was your money paying to repair the cars would you want "aggressive curbs"?

Worse yet is the issue that a damaged car could go out of control and cause a crash with other cars. The car builders and the drivers want safe tracks.

Big, aggressive kerbs are no less safe (except for bikes, when they can nasty things to riders' hips), just make it easier. It's pandering to the big money series.