Wow Just wow, that has to be the weakest argument for the lack of tracks
Wow Just wow, that has to be the weakest argument for the lack of tracks
Humbug. By the same logic, who cares of your car skyrockets to the moon because of collision detection? It's just a detail, and you should be working out which idiot caused the wreck to notice that your car is 500 feet into the sky.
@lala
No, it's not a weak argument at all. More scenery is nice, and would be nice, AS7 is a totally different drive than AS3 for example. Totally different experience and rhythm. I see Ian's point on a couple things like ASGP and ASHIS... two turns different, who cares. But for the most part the layouts are quite varied IMO.
Thats pretty much right - IMO who cares about skyrocketing - it honestly doesn't bother me enough to be a priority. However, I would like to see the collision detection improved, but what I'm more interested in is that more realistic collision detection would allow the cars to be more fragile - so damage could be more realistic... as things are, the cars are artificially tough - partly because they have to be to deal with some of the effects of the collision detection. (of course, reducing skyrocketing might be a side effect of doing this - which is fine by me)
I'd like to see 'road scenery' before 'trackside scenery'
Watching in-car vids of real races, one of the most obvious differences is the huge variety of road markings and texture changes. If this was improved in LFS, it would add to visual realism near where you actually look while racing - and it would have a huge impact on the sensation of speed particularly on the wide fast tracks.
Some other stuff I think is important... things like chassis flex, play in the drive chain and engine mountings, better aero, more advanced sound generation, loads of stuff really...
Thing is, Having it all right now wouldn't make a huge difference to my LFS experience - it would be nice, but I'm happy to wait until it's all ready and implemented to the standard we have grown accustomed to
cheers
Col
@ the track discussion...
Yes, we have a total of 6 track areas with too many configs. But not really. Westhill is by it's self. Aston Club, Cadet, National, and North are all pretty different if not completely different when you look at Club and Cadet compared to the others. Historic and GP are simply too long that they contain all the corners of the other configs. I have no idea what GT is like, I don't think I have more than 5 laps there.
Fern Bay we have Club, Gold, Green, and the RallyX. They all feel completely different to me that none of them really drive the same. Again, Black is the long one that uses all the corners of the others.
Blackwood, one road course and one rally course. Can't say they are the same.
Kyoto? Can you tell me what is remotely similar between National and GP Long?
South City, again, several of the configs are very different from one another. I don't have much time at SO to list the tracks.
Many of our configurations hold only the corner into the front stretch through the corner out of the front stretch shared. Aston Club in and out of the front stretch is a completely different experience than National. Aston has the most configs, and 4 of the 7 drive completely different. The other tracks, Blackwood, South City, and Fern Bay configs are not all that similar enough to give you a similar experience.
No, we definitely don't need more configs, we have enough. We do need more tracks, but for me, it isn't the tracks that keep me with LFS, it's the racers. You get a bunch of good racers together like I had experience with the well run LOTA series and you forget all about the fact that you have x,xxx amount of laps at the track. Even though I am hopelessly slow enough to not make it on the top server in LOTA, the experience I had in the 2nd tier server wouldn't have changed at all between the x,xxx laps I had at the current tracks compared to a new track. It's the experience I have with the racers that make it worth while.
(someone just last night in the servers said, "your the one who writes the forever posts on the forum!" LOL. I guess reading this thread, I'm not the only one
)
Yes, we have a total of 6 track areas with too many configs. But not really. Westhill is by it's self. Aston Club, Cadet, National, and North are all pretty different if not completely different when you look at Club and Cadet compared to the others. Historic and GP are simply too long that they contain all the corners of the other configs. I have no idea what GT is like, I don't think I have more than 5 laps there.
Fern Bay we have Club, Gold, Green, and the RallyX. They all feel completely different to me that none of them really drive the same. Again, Black is the long one that uses all the corners of the others.
Blackwood, one road course and one rally course. Can't say they are the same.
Kyoto? Can you tell me what is remotely similar between National and GP Long?
South City, again, several of the configs are very different from one another. I don't have much time at SO to list the tracks.
Many of our configurations hold only the corner into the front stretch through the corner out of the front stretch shared. Aston Club in and out of the front stretch is a completely different experience than National. Aston has the most configs, and 4 of the 7 drive completely different. The other tracks, Blackwood, South City, and Fern Bay configs are not all that similar enough to give you a similar experience.
No, we definitely don't need more configs, we have enough. We do need more tracks, but for me, it isn't the tracks that keep me with LFS, it's the racers. You get a bunch of good racers together like I had experience with the well run LOTA series and you forget all about the fact that you have x,xxx amount of laps at the track. Even though I am hopelessly slow enough to not make it on the top server in LOTA, the experience I had in the 2nd tier server wouldn't have changed at all between the x,xxx laps I had at the current tracks compared to a new track. It's the experience I have with the racers that make it worth while.
(someone just last night in the servers said, "your the one who writes the forever posts on the forum!" LOL. I guess reading this thread, I'm not the only one
)Too long, didn`t read - you win!
Anyway - I totaly agree with what you are saying
We need more tracks, not more configs, but the most important thing we need is racers. Most track configs can be funny if there are over 20 drivers, but nowdays it seems that most servers has below 10 people, and thats too little for some of the configs.That should be a good enough evidence that LFS need new content. And I think that the philosophy that no real tracks are needed is a problem for LFS in the long run! LFS will lose ground to rFactor, iRacing, etc... I know so many people that say they do not race LFS because the lack of real tracks
I don't mind not racing real tracks but some people do Imagine the frame rates!
I've been with LFS for a long time so I know and understand all the reasons why when it comes to the development and I also think it's fair to say that impatience is not my problem. However when S2 finally becomes final if it doesn't have at least a couple of new and totally unique track layouts and at least a couple of more cars I will be very disappointed. I do not think it is an unreasonable expectation to have more such content by that time or possibly even before then, S2 is still alpha after all.
I think that it is evidence more that people are too simple minded and easily bored. It doesn't matter how many tracks you have, it's the quality first and quantity second of the racers you have to race with. The league I just finished had at least 32 racers per event and 8 events. Those 32 racers were all top notch from the fastest to the slowest and great fun to race with. We ran GTRs on the 'same old boring' tracks and at no point was any of the racing boring.
That's not to say that LFS doesn't need new tracks. Just that it is definitely not boring with the current tracks we have. Racers IRL don't complain constantly because they race the 'same boring tracks' year in and year out in whatever series they run in. There are plenty of folks IRL who go to track days at their local track, the only single track they have ever run on, and go all the time. They don't complain that it's boring.
I listed 13 separate configurations of 5 of the 6 tracks we have in LFS (not including SO, because there are a few I haven't even been on.) If racing those 13+ tracks are boring, then it is my opinion that you are simply not passionate about racing, but more about playing a computer game. If you can leave and use another sim or go play another game because you are bored with it, then you simply don't have the passion for racing. The physics and the people you race with are what make LFS the one that I would always load up.
Again, this is not saying that there wouldn't be a benefit to having more tracks. You can never say that a new track is a bad thing. It's just that saying we don't have enough and it's boring is what is wrong.
I dont want to say anything too harsh mrodgers because you have a huge amount of posts and im sure you have run a lot of laps.
However this "passion for racing" thing isnt quite right. Live for speed in my view provides the best racing experiance out of any game I have played. However a few other simracing games are not far off, just because people move on to another game with more tracks doesent prove they dont like racing any less.
Racing drivers and sim racers love a challenge and there are no new challenges that are being given to us at the moment by LFS. Its the same tracks and the same cars.
For instance I used to regually attend my local karting track to do grandprix's and race against other randoms. However after going there so much I decided that i'd had enaugh and started going to other tracks further away from me. I really dont see why doing that meant Iliked racing karts any less.
Thats the point here i think, the people who have been here for years know what tracks they like and dislike, know what cars they like and dislike. There's nothing new to work out its all just the same.
However this "passion for racing" thing isnt quite right. Live for speed in my view provides the best racing experiance out of any game I have played. However a few other simracing games are not far off, just because people move on to another game with more tracks doesent prove they dont like racing any less.
Racing drivers and sim racers love a challenge and there are no new challenges that are being given to us at the moment by LFS. Its the same tracks and the same cars.
For instance I used to regually attend my local karting track to do grandprix's and race against other randoms. However after going there so much I decided that i'd had enaugh and started going to other tracks further away from me. I really dont see why doing that meant Iliked racing karts any less.
Thats the point here i think, the people who have been here for years know what tracks they like and dislike, know what cars they like and dislike. There's nothing new to work out its all just the same.
Maybe set yourself a challenge of having a WR on some combo...? Now that's a challenge.. How can i be bored of something if i know that i'm not among the best on that combo...
I've got more posts and laps than he does and I think he's talking out of his arse too.
It doesn't matter who I'm racing against, if I'm forced to do it at Aston National I will die of boredom.I don't mind that Aston has all those configs, it makes Aston what it is. Also, Westhill having one config doesn't take away or add anything to the experience of racing at Westhill. We've a good mix of tracks for now.
I reckon, if you wanted- you could simply race one car, one track- for years on end. I've put so many hours into lapping at BL in the XFG, and I'm still searching for that extra second which I guess will never come. But since LFS is a work in progress, people (me incl) are expecting those new tracks/cars/features. They don't want to be limited to the things they already know about the game because atm there are no limitations in LFS, just potentials.
I reckon there's a fine fuzzy line between boredom and anticipation, atleast maybe for me there is. I want to know what's around the corner, because LFS is already such a fascinating product. When I'm playing, a part of me realises that I'm playing an alpha game, that maybe I'm not playing 'the way it was meant to be played' which can be kindof frustrating, because you can quite easily feel like you're simply testing code.
I reckon, if you wanted- you could simply race one car, one track- for years on end. I've put so many hours into lapping at BL in the XFG, and I'm still searching for that extra second which I guess will never come. But since LFS is a work in progress, people (me incl) are expecting those new tracks/cars/features. They don't want to be limited to the things they already know about the game because atm there are no limitations in LFS, just potentials.
I reckon there's a fine fuzzy line between boredom and anticipation, atleast maybe for me there is. I want to know what's around the corner, because LFS is already such a fascinating product. When I'm playing, a part of me realises that I'm playing an alpha game, that maybe I'm not playing 'the way it was meant to be played' which can be kindof frustrating, because you can quite easily feel like you're simply testing code.
EKar - just want to tell you that your posts are great. You have a knack for taking emotional extremes and translating them into mediated logical form and putting ideas into very rational perspective.
Makes no difference about my post or lap count. This is a forum, you are entitled to rebute my post just as I was entitled to post it. It's what forums are for.
I wrote that with my opinion in mind that LFS is by far, the best physics of any racing sim I have tried or have read discussions on from those who's opinions I respect. Real tracks is not an issue in my mind because there is no difference between real tracks and fictional. Only that you can recognize the real track from watching motorsports 99% of the time (the 1% is left for those who may have actual experience IRL on the real tracks). So, if you (in general, not you Simon) are crying over the lack of tracks when there are at least 13 different driving track models for us, not including reverse or the others that may be too similar to other configs, and you leave LFS for a far inferior driving physics in another sim, then what I wrote stands. It's not the tracks that make the racing, it's the physics and the people you race with. That makes the experience, and with LFS, the experience can't be beat currently.
Sidi - 213 posts, 45,061 laps
mrodgers - 3583 posts, 13352 laps
me :bowdown:Sidi
Just because I have a job and you don't so you can race LFS more than me, doesn't mean you can belittle me...
Unfortunately, my prime racing time is pretty much taken up by the kids. As soon as they get old enough to hate spending time with Mom and Dad, then I'll have more time for racing, flying, RC, motorcycle riding, or whatever I want Just kidding. Actually, the majority of my posts probably come sometime between 7 am and 3-4 pm when I am in front of the computer at work. About 75% of my job is sitting in front of a computer while my equipment runs through about an hour and a half cycle. There's nothing to do but post on the LFSForums
Kev - 3340 posts
mrodgers - 3583 posts
Hmmm....
How are those math skills of yours Have to agree with you there, Kev. Seems the public community doesn't realize that there is more than GTR/AS3 and FOX/AS2. No wonder people complain about the lack of tracks in LFS. They just need to click the "tracks" button and open their eyes!
Is it? Except the CTRA most populated servers are running the same old shit over and over again so it seems we dont really need new tracks as a community at all. This of course is different for leagues.
I don't agree with that. Perfect physics on a totally dull circuit would still be totally dull.
Maybe I was counting the 4000 posts I deleted earlier this year, or maybe I just assumed I had more than you and neglected to check... 
But if we're honest a lot of them are practically identical, and a lot of them have corners that are so bad it puts you off driving the whole circuit.
Sure there's still more multiplayer to be had than in other sims, which sounds good, but half the people online at any given time aren't even racing - they're drifting or "cruising" or whatever other toss people get up to. And most of the remainder who are actually racing are still spending their time at the same old combos they've been racing every night for two years.
I also agree.
Col
I don't agree either
I totally agree with you that the tracks in LFS are not boring, but other maybe think so ??. But I think that not having RL tracks keeps some people away from LFS. We all know that track modding is not coming anytime soon, but as long as its not possible to mod people will complain
the tracks in LFS can't be any more boring than constantly complaining that we have no new tracks.
The graphics could be updated. The car selection isn't as great as it could be. The tracks do have a sort of "dull" feeling.
Thankfully, most of those attributes are not priority right now. If they were, we'd end up with a rFactor or Race 07. Don't get me wrong, I play (and enjoy) rFactor,GTR2 and Netkar Pro. Its just that they can't hold my interest for as long as LFS.
I enjoy the other sims, but not as much as I enjoy LFS and to be honest, I probably wasted my money on them. rFactor, GTR2 and NKpro all have different qaulities but tend to lack more than they contain.
GPL was the only sim that had me addicted to just plain driving/racing. Look at the community that sim had and continues to have! Currently that sim is outdated in every way, but with strong physics and a great net code, GPL continues to be one of the best sims around. It had one type of car and around a dozen tracks. The feeling of the physics and the close, competitive, consistent and structured community made for a experience I could never get tired of.
GTR2 has your real cars and your real tracks, but lacks a "connection" feeling if you ask me. I don't feel like I'm driving a car. The netcode is horrendous and the cars visibly look like they are floating in and out of the track like boats...even in single player replays sometimes. The times are supposedly close to its real life counterparts, but thats it. Its a "hey look, this is a real car and wow! this sim is so real the times are close to the real thing!"....then you're bored already.
rFactor has the selection, anything you want and anywhere you want. With all that comes a sense of dilution in the actual racing; the racers/leagues/hosts/talent is spread too thin. Not to mention the confusion of matching track versions and mod versions and patches and car version...ahh blah blah...Thats why we don't need tons of cars and tracks yet.
Netkar Pro is a great example of a sim that is and was underhyped and has amazing potential. Sadly, I find it difficult to think that NKpro will or even can make a strong come back, with a community that felt abandoned. No worries there, because we have communication. The dev's are busy, but the still frequent the forums.
You don't think that we've had dozens and dozens of month on end periods without updates since 2002? People have complained about the update frequency ever since the sim first caught on. Thankfully, the dev's stuck to their plan. They've always surprised us with features,listened to our complaints, fixed our issues and concentrated on creating the best online racing simulator there is. That will not stop, this is just a dry time...and tbh....that means they are working on creating, updating and fixing the features that make this sim so great.
I want real tracks, I want real cars, I want more updates and I want better graphics. If they followed those "wants", we would end up with either a sim that has a great selection but too much rough, unfinished and unpolished content(RF), real cars and tracks...but no real "feel"(GTR2),a burnt out development team(Racing Legends,anybody?) or a unpolished abandoned gem(NKP).
Instead, they are building that part of the sim that gets people addicted...that part that lets you "feel" like your driving and that part that allows for great close racing with a great community.
Its difficult to see, but we all love LFS because of things that aren't so apparent at first. Its no surprise that the first thing people notice when they get bored is the lack of visual quality,apparent fictionally based car selection and lack of real world comparisons.
The Developers know what they are doing, the updates are not as frequent right now for a reason. Trust them. They, after all, made the very thing you are thinking about right now. The thing you are spending time reading about, the thing you use enough to get you almost emotionally attached.The thing you beg for more of, because of the feeling this thing called LFS give you. Its the physics and the net code that builds a great sim and this one is being built as I write this. Lets let them and help them create the best online simulation available, in return they will throw us some new content along the way to keep everybody interested. I just hope they continue doing what they have been, because if they do, this sim is only going to get consistently and astonishingly better as time goes on.
Thankfully, most of those attributes are not priority right now. If they were, we'd end up with a rFactor or Race 07. Don't get me wrong, I play (and enjoy) rFactor,GTR2 and Netkar Pro. Its just that they can't hold my interest for as long as LFS.
I enjoy the other sims, but not as much as I enjoy LFS and to be honest, I probably wasted my money on them. rFactor, GTR2 and NKpro all have different qaulities but tend to lack more than they contain.
GPL was the only sim that had me addicted to just plain driving/racing. Look at the community that sim had and continues to have! Currently that sim is outdated in every way, but with strong physics and a great net code, GPL continues to be one of the best sims around. It had one type of car and around a dozen tracks. The feeling of the physics and the close, competitive, consistent and structured community made for a experience I could never get tired of.
GTR2 has your real cars and your real tracks, but lacks a "connection" feeling if you ask me. I don't feel like I'm driving a car. The netcode is horrendous and the cars visibly look like they are floating in and out of the track like boats...even in single player replays sometimes. The times are supposedly close to its real life counterparts, but thats it. Its a "hey look, this is a real car and wow! this sim is so real the times are close to the real thing!"....then you're bored already.
rFactor has the selection, anything you want and anywhere you want. With all that comes a sense of dilution in the actual racing; the racers/leagues/hosts/talent is spread too thin. Not to mention the confusion of matching track versions and mod versions and patches and car version...ahh blah blah...Thats why we don't need tons of cars and tracks yet.
Netkar Pro is a great example of a sim that is and was underhyped and has amazing potential. Sadly, I find it difficult to think that NKpro will or even can make a strong come back, with a community that felt abandoned. No worries there, because we have communication. The dev's are busy, but the still frequent the forums.
You don't think that we've had dozens and dozens of month on end periods without updates since 2002? People have complained about the update frequency ever since the sim first caught on. Thankfully, the dev's stuck to their plan. They've always surprised us with features,listened to our complaints, fixed our issues and concentrated on creating the best online racing simulator there is. That will not stop, this is just a dry time...and tbh....that means they are working on creating, updating and fixing the features that make this sim so great.
I want real tracks, I want real cars, I want more updates and I want better graphics. If they followed those "wants", we would end up with either a sim that has a great selection but too much rough, unfinished and unpolished content(RF), real cars and tracks...but no real "feel"(GTR2),a burnt out development team(Racing Legends,anybody?) or a unpolished abandoned gem(NKP).
Instead, they are building that part of the sim that gets people addicted...that part that lets you "feel" like your driving and that part that allows for great close racing with a great community.
Its difficult to see, but we all love LFS because of things that aren't so apparent at first. Its no surprise that the first thing people notice when they get bored is the lack of visual quality,apparent fictionally based car selection and lack of real world comparisons.
The Developers know what they are doing, the updates are not as frequent right now for a reason. Trust them. They, after all, made the very thing you are thinking about right now. The thing you are spending time reading about, the thing you use enough to get you almost emotionally attached.The thing you beg for more of, because of the feeling this thing called LFS give you. Its the physics and the net code that builds a great sim and this one is being built as I write this. Lets let them and help them create the best online simulation available, in return they will throw us some new content along the way to keep everybody interested. I just hope they continue doing what they have been, because if they do, this sim is only going to get consistently and astonishingly better as time goes on.
Well said!
Man, you don't post often, but I may have to go back and read all your posts if they are as good as this.
Indeed, well said.
Yowzer. Right on, KartRacer!
LFS nothing new for long time!
(419 posts, started )
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