Germany won 4-0 btw. Against the world class team of Cyprus!!! 
But the goals were nice.
And nobody did a dive.
But the goals were nice.
And nobody did a dive.
Wow, Israel beat Russia? Wish I'd seen that game.
Even if England do qualify they're not exactly going to set the competition on fire, so who cares. I would laugh if they went out to Portugal on penalties again though.
Even if England do qualify they're not exactly going to set the competition on fire, so who cares. I would laugh if they went out to Portugal on penalties again though.
I'm just going to stop talking about this now as i could go on for another 5-10 posts, but i dont want to cause so much argument and then cause everyone from hating me, but i still stand by my comments earlier on and well to be honest (hope england do well, but not to win it or we will be hearing about it in 40 years time :P)
_John_
_John_
England? - Win it?
I will give £100 to charity if England win it.
(From a Scotsman?!)
Yea i didnt think i would cause another argument by saying i would despise them to lose 
, Nah really its fun watching them get beat by portugal in penalties
_John_
, Nah really its fun watching them get beat by portugal in penalties _John_
disgrace of a freekick at the end of the match. To be fair the scottish defence was very poor for the full match, but we were actually all over them for a fair bit of the match. The freekick at the end is a total shambles, he dives into alan hutton with his elbow and gets a freekick? Referee had been having a good game up to then imo aswell, and im not even going to bother commenting on how much of a non-footballer toni is. Might aswell be a swimmer.
To be fair, Di Natale's goal was never offside and fergusons was, so the result is pretty fair. its still a ****ing disgrace though that that freekick was given in italys favour.
Ah well, at the start of this campaign we were written off, and 4th in the group behind ukraine would have been the best anyone would hope for. We've given the 2 world cup finalists a good run, beaten france twice and only lost out by a scrappy wee goal at the end of a match against italy. Weve beaten ukraine, who are an actual quality side. Weve climbed from 83rd in the fifa rankings to 13, and our team has came together well and turned into a world class team. A lot of positives can be taken from this run.
To be fair, Di Natale's goal was never offside and fergusons was, so the result is pretty fair. its still a ****ing disgrace though that that freekick was given in italys favour.
Ah well, at the start of this campaign we were written off, and 4th in the group behind ukraine would have been the best anyone would hope for. We've given the 2 world cup finalists a good run, beaten france twice and only lost out by a scrappy wee goal at the end of a match against italy. Weve beaten ukraine, who are an actual quality side. Weve climbed from 83rd in the fifa rankings to 13, and our team has came together well and turned into a world class team. A lot of positives can be taken from this run.
Nice post DeKo, pretty much every point you have made i agree with apart from that the ref had a good game until the free kick at the end, he had a n all round bad game, and yes with Toni i agree 110% with you.
All us scottish should have known that playing against Italy the world champions that no matter what they were going to get every decission towards them and when i heard the ref was spanish well yea that just proved the point there, so yea i knew yes this would be a hard game for scotland, and that it would be rare for any of the decisision to go our way, but i suppose this is football now a days it should be played in a swimming pool, or on a table with all the politicions who are blind to see what is happening...!
_John_
PS sorry i know i said i would stop but i had to reply to this one
All us scottish should have known that playing against Italy the world champions that no matter what they were going to get every decission towards them and when i heard the ref was spanish well yea that just proved the point there, so yea i knew yes this would be a hard game for scotland, and that it would be rare for any of the decisision to go our way, but i suppose this is football now a days it should be played in a swimming pool, or on a table with all the politicions who are blind to see what is happening...!
_John_
PS sorry i know i said i would stop but i had to reply to this one
BlueFlame? Is that you?
no and were did i say snip..? lol
So you defend your selective memory on episodes and your immature call to all Italians of the forum just to scream your pain for something non-existent.
Sum up all the errors and say: "Yup, Scotland got lucky but deservedly lost". Because it's so. But hey, two wrong offside decisions penalising Italy mean nothing to whiners, they just turn the head the other way when they don't realise that there were three major mistakes, not one, with the decision on the penalty being correct, rules at hand.
Whiners. They make me sick with their sickness.
Edit: on top of that, I see a lot of prejudices in your posts: the referee was Spanish, I knew this was going to happen, blah blah blah. If you want to question the professionality of the referee, fine. But if you want to question his honesty, start with yours, since he damaged Italy much more than he benefitted it (and this is clear). Don't ask about others people honesty, ask about yours first.
Really, im just going to stop no way am i going to win as all the italians seem to think they are perfvect our team are great etc...well one thing i will admit YES italy are a good team, but in the past couple of year i dont like they way they are playing or winning, it is unfair to smaller countrys that have a chnace of winnini.e to skill but when it comes to the pitch every decision goes to you guys because of who you are, its the same in any sport now a days it depends on who tyou ae and who you know its a disgrace, football is a mans sport you expect some pushing and shoving the itialians as soon as something touches them they over exagerate by about 10x i mean a guy got pushed on the back of his head he put is hands up to ihis face and lifted his feet of the ground as if he had been shot and then Toni runs along telling the ref exactly what to do now please donttell me that you couldnt see this...!
_John_
_John_
First of all, please try and take as much pride in our language as you have in your football team. That is really hard to read, and in parts almost incomprehensible.
Secondly, I don't think it's the case that lesser teams get more decisions against them. This one hurts and stands out because of the significance. Don't be such a sore loser, it's the nature of the game.
What you think about Italians in general is far from being real, but I guess you don't read Italian newspapers. Your attitude is revealing all your prejudices. No one came here saying "Italy's the best" (although as WC we reasonably could say so), or that we have no troubles. This is just an ignorant invention of yours. Or worse, saying or implying that all Scots are far from being manly and that they should all be ashamed (although I see some example of the contrary here and there, but I'm no xenophobe or racist, I can distinguish a single individual from an entire nation).
Whiners are everywhere, and you are one of them. If you aren't able to cope with defeat, turn off your TV, but don't flood this forum with your blatant and self-defeating lies.
Whiners are everywhere, and you are one of them. If you aren't able to cope with defeat, turn off your TV, but don't flood this forum with your blatant and self-defeating lies.
They are a world class team!! They put 5 goals past Ireland!! Now thats saying something
Says more about Ireland than about Cyprus
How England ever lost to Russia I'll never know, caught the last half and every time Russia got near the final half, they seemed to freeze and panic, only one guy managed to keep his composure (the guy who scored, hit the post in the last 5mins)
Now that I have managed to shake off the hangover, and can see straight, I can fully reflect on the whole campaign. Scotland stood no hope, what so ever at the start of the group, yet have gone up the rankings by about 50 odd places. We were done in by some really poor games, away to Georgia and the Ukraine, a win in any one of those games and we would be in with a chance regardless of yesterday's result.
I will however stand by my earlier comments, the Italian's went down hell of an easily, and the ref was incredible poor (I've seen better referring in the 2nd Division in Scotland) We can't blame him for the offside allowed goal, and the disallowed goal for offside, thats the assistant's fault. But that free kick in the last seconds was a real body blow.
It is hard to explain to others just how much Euro qualification would have meant to Scotland. We have failed to be at the biggest shows in football now for the past decade, and it hurts that a proud footballing nation which has produced some of the greatest footballers and managers Britain have had, to not be there at the big show. I have been with the Tartan Army now for the past 3 years, and the only home game I missed was the one yesterday due to demand, under Berti I could have got 10 tickets easily.
I suppose it has to be South Africa 2010, better start saving.
So, when hard feelings should have subsided you stand about previous comments about Italian stylists with handbags and all the commonplaces about Italians you were ranting about.
It's curious to see, then, how some people are selective about mistakes, especially when they contradict their official truth, and give whatever meaning they want to whatever they see... For instance I see three major mistakes, just as you do, and I see that without those mistakes Italy would still have won.
But I guess dishonesty is normal in defeat. I mean, there must be some kind of excuse, we must have lost because it was written in the stars, the referee stunk, people dive, and if the two offside decisions were against Scotland (two goals robbed to Italy and someone still has the courage to talk about unfair refereeing!) so many people would have screamed at a conspiracy...
I heard many sore Italian losers after the Japan/Korea WC and they don't sound any different from all the sore losers of the world. I'm glad to see some Scots are contributing to dispel a myth. Just let me say that discovering that we're not the most pathetic losers of the world comes at the expense of honour, but luckily not mine. At least with Korea the Italian sore losers had some real reason to complain. Here, I really see none, except playing the blame game.
I still stand by that the Italians dived/went down too easy. The other post is a prime example of PUI (posting under influence) and I apologies for any offense caused.
Three mistakes from two separate people/professionals the latter one leading to the Italians goal. The two offsides were the blame of the assistant, the ref has to believe what the assistant flags, due to the fact that he has the best view. However the last one was down to the ref, and how he managed to view that the Italian was fouled bewilders me, especially as it was the Hutton that was fouled more than anything else.
But of course there is a conspiracy, how else could Scotland get Italy and France (runner's up and winners at World Cup 2006) and the Ukraine (Quarter finalists of World Cup 2006).
But tell me this, if the roles were reversed would you be happy with the standard of referring, would you be able to take it on the chin knowing full well that the closest you have come to getting back on the major football tournaments for 10 long hard years, were snatched by an outrageous call by the ref.
Damn it man I was looking forward for an excuse to go to Austria or Switzerland, I think the timing of the games coincided with the Munich Beer festival too.
You separate outrageous calls by referees and assistants. I don't. The rules tells me that there are four people on the pitch that are in charge of deciding how a match should be played.
You say Italians dive too easily. I just watched two dangerous fouls damaging Zambrotta and Gattuso. No one complained about the hard game. But as I said in my post before (with a nice clip too), the diving game is a shame, but let's not consider this only Italian, or preeminently Italian: it's a lie, in that clip you'll see players from a variety of teams from all over the world.
I remember that a French member of this forum had an avatar with "Caution: Italian Footballers" written on a slippery floor sign. I remember that this unmentionable, ignorant, rude and outright criminal guy has been banned from this forum for unmentionable reasons, but we know the score. He should have seen that clip too, Drogba is really fun to watch. So are players from all over the world. Italy is no exception, but it's no rule.
About the standard of refereeing: it was poor, but you don't have any kind of reason to complain. No matter who did a mistake, there were three major decisions completely wrong, and a referee's decision, in this case, doesn't change for worse a match more than two decisions of a single assistant.
As for conspiracy theories, I really can't buy them. I just have to take a look at the refereeing of Scotland-Italy to dismiss them.
Should it be a reason to complain? Maybe, but I see a much bigger problem: football shouldn't be used as a means for spreading commonplaces about entire nations. This sounds like a rather dull, childish and unjustified vengeance: I'm suffering because I lost a football match, so I have a right to make you suffer worse, smearing the name of an entire nation. Do you really see an honourable behaviour in this? I don't. I see nationalism at its worst. So your apologies are welcome.
Maybe my humor is not coming across (not for the first time either) but the comments I made on the conspiracy were with my tongue firmly in my check.
However i can't see how you fail to see that the ref cost us. Put it like this the best referee every to blow his whistle (Pierluigi Collina)probably would have followed the assistant designs without question on the two key decisions, however I seriously doubt that he would have given a foul against Scotland like the fellow did yesterday. Funnily enough if two offsides decisions went against Scotland I could probably accept it, having tried to run the lines a couple of times I can accept how hard it can be to look at the ball when kicked, and along the line at the same time.
As for the diving/going down easy versus the hard tackling I suppose we can put that down to difference of nations. Scottish football has a tough nature about it, we play fast end to end football, with hard, fair tackling, sometimes with the player coming off worse. On the content the game is different, and some tackles which would be waved on in British football, gets pulled up and sometimes booked in Europe. I base my judgments on what I see in Scotland, and if a player went down as easily as I saw yesterday, they will be booed to eternity and beyond.
And yes we do have our own divers, players who will fall down as if hit by a sniper. However they seem to do it very badly and just look pathetic, while the content players seem to have it down to a fine art.
I see it perfectly, just as I see that the assistant's decision had a cost for Italy. Let's rectify the errors and see the outcome: Scotland still lost. End of the game. No reason to complain. I really don't understand how you can turn a blind eye to anything favouring Scotland. I don't. The referee's decision was bad, but not more damaging than the rest. Do you really think that two goals have no meaning in a football match?
You defend tough play? I don't. I don't defend fouls from behind just as I don't defend diving. They are both a shame that should be always punished. You admit you have your own divers: let's not discuss about the quality of divers. Diving sucks, no matter if it's realistic or not.
Drunk English Bloke's Two Penneth:
1) Italy are better than Scotland (but Scotland have improved loads recently, and are probably gutted not to qualify for the European championship - they might not have a team this strong for very long).
2) The Italian team do play to the officials more than any other national team, and everybody knows it. And that's why nobody's interested in Italian league football any more. Which is a shame, because they put on an attractive game when they're not behaving like a bunch of clowns.
1) Italy are better than Scotland (but Scotland have improved loads recently, and are probably gutted not to qualify for the European championship - they might not have a team this strong for very long).
2) The Italian team do play to the officials more than any other national team, and everybody knows it. And that's why nobody's interested in Italian league football any more. Which is a shame, because they put on an attractive game when they're not behaving like a bunch of clowns.
Watch the clip, Kev. Clowns are everywhere. That must be why the level of interest in foreign national championships in Italy is non-existent. Except for players that want to come here, of course.
Edit: I live in the only town in Italy where the separation between spectators and players are gone for good. My team, Udinese, has been renowned in the last 20 years for fair play. Violence is practically zero here, and Udinese plays at the moment a wonderful football.
I recognise there are lots of problems in Italian football and that my hometown is a pleasant exception (like many others), but discussing troubles emotionally - and not objectively - isn't the best way to solve them.
Edit: I live in the only town in Italy where the separation between spectators and players are gone for good. My team, Udinese, has been renowned in the last 20 years for fair play. Violence is practically zero here, and Udinese plays at the moment a wonderful football.
I recognise there are lots of problems in Italian football and that my hometown is a pleasant exception (like many others), but discussing troubles emotionally - and not objectively - isn't the best way to solve them.
I enjoyed the game, even if the goal at the end wa sa huge disapointment, they were the better team and we ddin't take the chances that were given to us.
Even though there last goal was clearly a free kick to us, Italy had a goal disalowed for being offside and our goal was offside but we got away with it, you know if we'd have one it woulda been lucky because of the linesmans error.
I was just happy to see them put up a fight, the goal at the start made me think we were on for a complete wasting but they really got toghether and put on a show. I was also happy to see us get this far, even if we didn't qualify, we'd get humped if we got through anyway.
Even though there last goal was clearly a free kick to us, Italy had a goal disalowed for being offside and our goal was offside but we got away with it, you know if we'd have one it woulda been lucky because of the linesmans error.
I was just happy to see them put up a fight, the goal at the start made me think we were on for a complete wasting but they really got toghether and put on a show. I was also happy to see us get this far, even if we didn't qualify, we'd get humped if we got through anyway.
But diving goes unpunished, while hard yet fair tackles get punished, by that I mean he goes in hard and gets the ball, yet a free kick awarderd agaisnt and sometimes the player is yellow carded (And I'm not talking about yesterdays game, but all games invovling British side agisnt european sides) How is that just or fair?
Re; the ref, i don't think we will ever agree here, and I wholey accept you're agrument that if all errors were erradicated Scotland still would have lost. But, and it's a big one, the refs final call cost Scotland dearliy in the last seconds of the game, for the love of me I don't remeber him making such an outrageous call in favour of Scotland, and before you suggest that I'm calling the refree baised, I'm not. if the ref had just called that one correctly do you seriosuly think we would be discusing the fact that the the assitant got the call's wrong.
As i have already stated it took a lot for Scotland to be in this postion, after 10 years of hurt, 10 years of having to watch ohters enjoy a party atmsophere, 10 years of knowing that we will have to make do with watching it on tv and 10 years of having the neigbours south of us gloating like hell we had a chance. Not a slim one a very real one for a change, and for that to be taken away by one stupid descion that should not have been made....well it's like running out of fuel on the last lap knowing that only a pont was needed to win the world championship.
BTW how can you not like hard tackling, Italy had one of the best experts in fair yet hard tackling, Paolo Maldini true legend.
To All The Italians
(60 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG