I wouldn't put "challenge" against speed/consistency because they are a challenge. Moreover, challenge to me represents me versus other racers, not how complicated it is to drive. In between.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Err, just to be sure, the FOX in LFS is supposed to be sequential anyway...

err, read the post properly please.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

These cars would probably have sequential boxes with flappy paddles anyway so its not really an issue for me.

Quote from spankmeyer :

...720-degrees–clutch pedal–H-shifter. You got no excuses not to do the same.

Me too. I want realism ABOVE ALL. I don´t mind to finish a race in the last place if I have enjoyed doing it and felt most close as possible to the reality.

:auto:

Quote from Gentlefoot :

err, read the post properly please.

What I actually meant to say was that IIRC you cannot even select H-gate mode for the FOX in LFS. But I'm not 100% sure on that.

realism for sure, you really do realise how bad was your braking technique when you have the clutch to deal with.

I don't have a H-pattern shifter, so I use the DFP's sequential stick and a clutch pedal (from an old wheel) for everything except the single-seaters. I don't know if it makes me slower/less consistent any more because I've been racing like that for nearly 2 years now.

If I do switch to left-foot braking and paddles I find my knees start to hurt after a while because my brake pedal is too close to my accelerator - it means my legs are positioned strangely and after half an hour or so it hurts.

I find I occasionally have two problems that auto-clutchers probably don't have:

1) Missing the brake pedal completely with my right foot - whoops!
2) Trying to downshift too quickly and ending up in neutral. I then forget to match revs when I put it back in gear and spin the car... Whoops again!

First race with my G25 was quite funny, well, sorta funny.

CTRA Race 2 server, Fern bay Gold, I was on pole in a FXO, an RB4 blitzed me off the line, and I came barrelling up behind him, slammed on the brakes, and wondered for a split second why I wasn't slowing down.

I marvelled at the fact I had hit the clutch pedal instead of the brake as I wiped out the poor fella in the RB4........

Yeah when I (rarely) drive the single-seaters I find my starts suffer from stomping on the brake pedal each time I change gear. :doh:

Quote from danowat :

I marvelled at the fact I had hit the clutch pedal instead of the brake as I wiped out the poor fella in the RB4........

i've had my g25 for 8 months now and i still do that from time to time.

i use the h-shifter for everything except for the single seater's and GTR's. sometimes when i am just practicing i'll use it for the GTR's too, but for league racing i realized hardly anyone uses the shifter for those cars so i switch over to the paddles. as i get faster with them i might go back to the shifter, but right now i need to save all the time i can. also, hour long league races with the shifter can get somewhat tiring on your right(or left) shoulder.

about you being inconsistent with the shifter, that's something that will improve over time as you get used to it. i had actually gotten so used to it at one point, that when i tried to switch back to the paddles for the GTR cars it took me a while to readjust.

I was crap with the G25 for a few weeks. So much extra co-ordination to do. Now I'm well used to it, it feels so much more like driving. Real sense of achievement. Speed is irrelevant, so long as I'm having fun, that's all that matters. Back when the high nose aero bug existed, I refused to exploit it, and struggled in league races where everyone else was. I felt right for it though.

Quote from tristancliffe :

However, I don't like LFS's clutch simulation, as I tend to miss shifts very very easily (which I rarely do in real life). So I have been known to put auto-clutch on as a safety net (but still use the pedal).

Patch Y is bringing clutch improvements (like stalling) so hopefully the other issues will be addressed at the same time. I've had enough of missing gears because I only pressed the clutch pedal 99% of the way down.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Patch Y is bringing clutch improvements (like stalling) so hopefully the other issues will be addressed at the same time. I've had enough of missing gears because I only pressed the clutch pedal 99% of the way down.

i never press the clutch 100% of the way down and i rarely miss a gear. maybe i'm doing it wrong. still looking forward to the clutch improvements though.

Only full realism will do, even it would mean that playing would be utterly frustrating and difficult

IRL I don't press clutch full way down when car is moving, only when car is stopped that is needed, I prefer matching revs and just helping with clutch a bit.

Then again, IRL I hardly ever have pushed brake pedal with full strength, only when bleeding brakes, even on track it is not needed to push pedal to floor, one thing again that annoys really lot with these cheap plastic controllers.

In any vote thread ther is always a missing catagory, I vote for highest posible realism and consistant speed. I always use the clutch and H-shifter (except in single seaters), Its how I drive my car, so it wasnt hard to get used to, wich I should expect. Compared to befor, my driving with the DFP was much slower than now, and to add to that, more consistant. I would recoment using the Clutch and H-shift for all races possible, regardless if it makes one less consistant, 'cause with enough practice one will get consistant.

I have a G25 also and I mostly use the H-shifter and clutch combo, even with GTR cars. It's certainly a slower option than using sequential shifting, but it feeds my pashion for driving better than a semi-auto gearbox. I want as much realism as I can get. If I would want to be fast and constistent, I'd pull out my NFS installation DVDs.

i dont have G25 but i did try it out at my mate's place last weekend..
it was AWESOME...
love the way of changing gear with a clutch and the H-shifter...
but i reli need some time to get used to it..
i like cant handle the clutch, heel-toe, shifter, steering at the same time..
i like either out-brake myself every corner or i braked perfectly but like forgot to steer so i ran into the grass...LOL

but i reli like the G25 to be honest...just LOVE IT

Quote from Bob Smith :

Patch Y is bringing clutch improvements (like stalling) so hopefully the other issues will be addressed at the same time. I've had enough of missing gears because I only pressed the clutch pedal 99% of the way down.

Ohhhh, interesting, sounds like I am picked the right time to buy a G25

Quote from Hyperactive :

In a way there is very short time frames for individual inputs and if you have more controls you have more time frames and inputs to match. This kinda grows expotentially when you are going for the last percentages towards the really fast laps. If you miss an input it will delay and change the next ones and if you have more controls the effect multiplies.

Kinda like braking while steering when the rear gets a bit loose. With paddles&autoclutch, no big deal. With manual clutch and H-shifter you need to redo the whole order of inputs to match the new situation.

thats what people have to deal with in actual racing, and why not try to simulate a real part of racing

Quote from Bob Smith :

Patch Y is bringing clutch improvements (like stalling) so hopefully the other issues will be addressed at the same time. I've had enough of missing gears because I only pressed the clutch pedal 99% of the way down.

I really hope your right about the Patch Y improvements and it is quite annoying to miss a shift even when pushing the clutch most of the way... As far as I go I use what the car uses, and the clutch. The only exception is in the FOX where I use paddle shifting instead of bump shifting, (which used to be in the FOX script). Realism is more fun for me, even if there are times where the H gate has thrown me of an missed a shift, have lost some really nice battles in the XRG/XFG for that reason alone (or the above one of not hitting the clutch - worse in my opinion because its not entirely my fault)

I use the clutch for all the cars i drive and the H-pattern for all but the open wheelers.

Consistency improved a lot with practice and I only sometimes mis-shift now. I'm just a tad slower using clutch and shifter but still get regular PBs using them. It's such a better experience racing in LFS with this gear that I accept the slight handicap and just do my best.
It would be nice to be able to race against others who are fully manual as well, but alas there is no option for this.....at least not currently.

Using the clutch and h-pattern shifter sure keeps you busy, and that adds to the realism and immersion factors immensely. And the LX cars are just made for this stuff, very enjoyable.

Funny you should mention that, I too was thinking if a "forced" manual clutch option may come in in the future, it's a bit "elitist", but like you say, it would be nice to know we are racing with the same configuration.

Quote from danowat :

Funny you should mention that, I too was thinking if a "forced" manual clutch option may come in in the future, it's a bit "elitist", but like you say, it would be nice to know we are racing with the same configuration.

you can't expect everyone to have a clutch in a shifter though. while it would be nice, i can't really see this happening.

Congrats on your G25 Dan. Sounds like you got yours just a week after I got mine, so we're both noobs with it at the moment.

I've found the gear shift an absolute blast to use in the XFG and I don't mind being a little slower because it's worth it for the fun value. I hope that I'll become just as quick in time, I'm having to switch on throttle blip to help.

Because the LRF cars are faster between the gears, there's a little more speed lost using the gear shift. I think I'll be sticking with paddle shift for Road Sport Winter Cup - at least until I'm more familiar with gear shift.

I don't like stick shifting, maybe it's because of the speed of the cars that use it.

In summary; if the fun aspect of using gear shift is outweighed by too much speed loss, I'll use paddle shift. It's all about fun!

Dan - check this idea out for easily swapping between the modes.

Quote from danowat :

Funny you should mention that, I too was thinking if a "forced" manual clutch option may come in in the future, it's a bit "elitist", but like you say, it would be nice to know we are racing with the same configuration.

There is really no way to enforce it because it is so easy to "cheat it". Jusy setup a button as analogue clutch pedal and make a simple macro that automatically uses that clutch when you change gears.

i drive an 18 wheeler for a living, and i HATE the sequential mode. i only use it in games where the H pattern isn't available. usually i screw up the sequential when i downshift - i forget to let go of the darn lever!

as for being 'slower' with the 3rd pedal and shifter...bleh. i went from a best of 1:28 at blackwood with mouse driving and a few helps like auto-blip, to a 1:12:78 with the G25 with all helps turned off...(with the XR GTR)

the only time i worry about my shifter, is when i let others play with it. 3 times already, someone has tried to "bang" second, and yanked the friggin shifter off my desk!

i would play online, but i need a new computer. even if i try playing single player, my fps drops to like 3...so hot-lapping it is for me (till i get a new computer)


woohoo! set a new best at blackwood after installing the patches (hadn't done that). 1:12:08! (last lap of replay - 18th lap)

In between.. the skill on this game will never 100% prove skill in real life.. so who cares if you use auto clutch etc.. you can be ayrton senna in this game and still not be the best. you drive the car in the game, how your ment to drive the car in the game.. not like a real f1 car, because if you drive the f1 car like you do in real life, imo, will never be as quick.