Quote from aoun :

In between.. the skill on this game will never 100% prove skill in real life.. so who cares if you use auto clutch etc.. you can be ayrton senna in this game and still not be the best. you drive the car in the game, how your ment to drive the car in the game.. not like a real f1 car, because if you drive the f1 car like you do in real life, imo, will never be as quick.

Simulation is keyword, not the game.

I'm somewhere in between. I always use the correct degrees of steering lock for all cars on the DFP, instead of setting it up purely to be as quick as I can with less steering lock. If I had a G25 I'd use the clutch and shifter for fun pickup races but to be honest if I did get into a league or something where I really wanted to be competitive, I'd use the paddles and 2 pedals

In order to be fast and error free in LFS, you gotta use 270 degrees, paddle shifters, and 2 pedals. Simple as that.

I'd use other control types as a challenge sure... but it is just not competitive enough in LFS, and not fun at all because of that. If people using h-shifters can be competitive, then I'd be using mine more often. Until then, speed and consistency is the only way to win

(I use h-shifter in singleplayer, when I just want to dick about)

Quote from Tweaker :

In order to be fast and error free in LFS, you gotta use 270 degrees, paddle shifters, and 2 pedals. Simple as that.

I'd use other control types as a challenge sure... but it is just not competitive enough in LFS, and not fun at all because of that. If people using h-shifters can be competitive, then I'd be using mine more often. Until then, speed and consistency is the only way to win

(I use h-shifter in singleplayer, when I just want to dick about)

its more fun to beat people when you know you're using a more realistic setup though

I don't find winning very fun or rewarding, much more fun it is to fight from 2nd last place swapping paints for 20 laps

Quote from StanleyCarter :

Whats the point of getting a G25 if you're not using it to its full potential?

I vote for Realism all the way.

The problem is neither the clutch nor shifter is realistic enough. The pedal placement isn't good or realistic for heel-toe (the biggest problem), and the H-shifter feels like a toy.

Clutch and H shifting with the G25 is like playing Wii tennis/golf/boxing. All you're doing is gesturing a characature of the real thing.

Everything else about the wheel is absolutely awesome!

Quote from danowat :

Last night I had my first ever race using the clutch and shifter on my G25.

Whilst I found it fun, challanging and a lot more realistic, I also found it frustrating that it made me quite a bit less consistant, although the speed was there, the consistancy wasn't.

So, it came to my mind, do people like the challenge and realism that certain settings or pieces of hardware can give you, or do you prefer the speed and/or consistancy that "simpler" options can give you?.

I am somewhere inbetween, whilst I will try and maintain a certain level of realism/challenge, I do like trying to keep the speed/consistancy to a certain level.

Does anyone forgo speed and consistancy JUST for realism and challenge?, likewise does anyone use "simple" settings just for pure speed and consistancy.

Personally, I don't think I will use the clutch and shifter in "competitive" racing, but just for giggles, I will use it in "fun" racing

Tbh, there are many who are quite consistent with using H-Shifter (Old F1 days), its just that its harder to get used to it compared to using just paddles. Paddle shifting is faster than H-Shifting, no matter how much of an alien you are, paddles always beats it. Personally, my times with the H-Shifter are 0.2-0.4 slower.

Consistency hasn't really been a problem with me when using a shifter. True, sometimes I put the gear in a moment before I press the clutch then I have to press the clutch again to get the gear and then worry about 2 or other gears that I have to go through but the key really is how quick you are to sorting out a sticky situation. I remember reading the book "Ayrton Senna's Principles of Race Driving (<- Great book btw, should definitely read it ) where Senna was saying that some drivers can reach a point in that they know they've put in the wrong gear but are so quick to noticing their mistake that they instantly put in the right gear and then release the clutch while with most of us, we put it in the wrong gear, release the clutch, gasp for a moment and then put it in the right gear .

I agree with the competitive racing bit. When I race in leagues or just doing some serious racing, I use paddles but its fun to race with the H-Shifter sometimes.

Something I'd really like is that if someone could write up some code for server administrators to force the use of a shifter and clutch so that everyone is racing with the same tricky equipment <- EDIT: already posted :doh:

Quote from JTbo :

Only full realism will do, even it would mean that playing would be utterly frustrating and difficult

IRL I don't press clutch full way down when car is moving, only when car is stopped that is needed, I prefer matching revs and just helping with clutch a bit.

Then again, IRL I hardly ever have pushed brake pedal with full strength, only when bleeding brakes, even on track it is not needed to push pedal to floor, one thing again that annoys really lot with these cheap plastic controllers.

haha! your post doesn't appear to have the word Volvo in it sir!

Quote from Leprekaun :

haha! your post doesn't appear to have the word Volvo in it sir!

Really?

Quote :

Only full realism will do, even it would mean that playing would be utterly frustrating and difficult

IRL I don't press clutch full way down when car is moving, only when car is stopped that is needed, I prefer matching revs and just helping with clutch a bit.

Then again, IRL I hardly ever have pushed brake pedal with full strength, only when bleeding brakes, even on track it is not needed to push pedal to floor, one thing again that annoys really lot with these cheap plastic controllers.

Quote from P1lot :

Dan - check this idea out for easily swapping between the modes.

off topic:
haahh bismarks avatar, LOL:ices_rofl. It was so funny when I saw it on the DFP back when gt4 came out.

Quote from Tweaker :

In order to be fast and error free in LFS, you gotta use 270 degrees, paddle shifters, and 2 pedals. Simple as that.

I'd use other control types as a challenge sure... but it is just not competitive enough in LFS, and not fun at all because of that. If people using h-shifters can be competitive, then I'd be using mine more often. Until then, speed and consistency is the only way to win

(I use h-shifter in singleplayer, when I just want to dick about)

What is wrong with racing with me midfield instead of sidi, banshee, and CWMAX in the front, Tweak? Eh? Plenty of room to be competitive with me



I only have experience with a MOMO. I still don't see how having more precision in your steering with a DFP/G25 is a bad thing over a 270 MOMO.

It drives me crazy that though I have 270 degrees, the working range on a circuit in the corners is about +5 or 10 degrees from center with the MOMO. I just think the precision of being able to use more wheel turn would be a big advantage.

I've asked in league forums before, of the fast guys. It's definitely my skills rather than the wheel that hinders me since many of those fast guys are still using MOMOs and Sidewinders.

Definitely agree with the seq. shift and 2 pedals being more competitive than manual and clutch. That's a given, with more to concentrate on and do.

Ideally the LFS shifting system will be updated at some point so that using an unrealistic shifting method for a particular type of car is limited to be slightly slower than doing it all manually. So for example using a paddle to change up a gear in a road car will not result in the seemingly instantaneous change it currently does but instead take a pre-determined amount of time. The clutch would get the same treatment as well.
This is probably one of the biggest potential improvements for LFS at this time imo, personally I'd place it as high up the list of importance as a tyre physics update.

I didn't make my own racing cockpit with frexgp stuff : 3 pedal with load cell + h-shifter + momo modifs. To play with paddle on road cars

Quote from tailing :

Ideally the LFS shifting system will be updated at some point so that using an unrealistic shifting method for a particular type of car is limited to be slightly slower than doing it all manually. So for example using a paddle to change up a gear in a road car will not result in the seemingly instantaneous change it currently does but instead take a pre-determined amount of time. The clutch would get the same treatment as well.
This is probably one of the biggest potential improvements for LFS at this time imo, personally I'd place it as high up the list of importance as a tyre physics update.

Well, that would mean that everyone must have a G25 and that will never be the case, you know that..
I'm all for realism but i also don't wanna loose to some mouse driver who only moves his hand couple of milimeters every race and eats a sandwich with the other, while i struggle with the wheel FF and dance with the feet.. That's the problem with realism.. if i had a G25 i would hotlap or drove for fun with "H" shifter and three pedals, but online, i'm not such a fan of loosing, so i would use the fastest method, and that is "unfortunately" auto clutch and flappy pedals..
I often go to our demo server where mouse drivers drive a crazy laptimes of low 1:33's so when i go there once in a while, i want to be competative, and we often drive plenty of races in a row, so i would be all wet and in pain after driving 2 or 3 races in full manual mode with those crazy mouse drivers...

Oops, a 1000th post... "yeeey"

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Well, that would mean that everyone must have a G25 and that will never be the case, you know that..

Nope, what he is saying is the clutch and h-shifter folks won't be penalized for the realism their controller provides.

Quote :

I'm all for realism but i also don't wanna loose to some mouse driver who only moves his hand couple of milimeters every race and eats a sandwich with the other, while i struggle with the wheel FF and dance with the feet.. That's the problem with realism.. if i had a G25 i would hotlap or drove for fun with "H" shifter and three pedals, but online, i'm not such a fan of loosing, so i would use the fastest method, and that is "unfortunately" auto clutch and flappy pedals..

Which is exactly what his thoughts fix. Struggling with the FF and dancing with the feet would no longer be uncompetitive. It would be the current fastest method (autoclutch and flappy paddles) that would now be the slower method, thus fixing what is currently wrong.

I'm a MOMO, 2 pedal, seq. shift user myself, and I fully agree that I should be hindered a bit over the clutch/shifter users. It's the only right way it should be.

I like to make LFS difficult for myself, otherwise I get bored, so I use all the controls I've got. But I still like the fact that I can race against people using a mouse, or whatever. I wouldn't want to exclude Alex Zanardi from my server just because he's got prosthetic legs and uber-h4x steering wheel modifications.

Quote from mrodgers :

Nope, what he is saying is the clutch and h-shifter folks won't be penalized for the realism their controller provides.

Oh, i missunderstood than..
Well, it's a good idea, i agree, just to make those damn mouse drivers slower!

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Oh, i missunderstood than..
Well, it's a good idea, i agree, just to make those damn mouse drivers slower!

We could put some cheese to mousetraps so they must find new mouses, that should slow them down

Quote from JTbo :

Really?

Ah! but sir, you stated in your signature that you find it hard to make a post without the word volvo in it . What you have revealed is that, true, the letters of the word Volvo do exist in your post but they have not been put together in succession to form a word so your post still stands in contradiction with your statement

Quote from Leprekaun :

Ah! but sir, you stated in your signature that you find it hard to make a post without the word volvo in it . What you have revealed is that, true, the letters of the word Volvo do exist in your post but they have not been put together in succession to form a word so your post still stands in contradiction with your statement

No not a crontradicition it just shows that the thousnads of dollars he is spending on thearapy is finaly working

I found it really hard to shift and brake in the same time with h-pattern shifter at first, but with training and training and training its starting to go as it should, and now I dont even want to play with seqvental.. My times were also a little slower at first but now its the same as before or even better than my old wheel without h-shifter and 720deg

I'm into realism, I've noticed that when I started playing LFS more, I cant enjoy other racing or car games, because they aren't realistic enough

Quote from Glenn67 :

No not a crontradicition it just shows that the thousnads of dollars he is spending on thearapy is finaly working

Indeed