Quote from lalathegreat :

the whole can't differentiate from the left to right thing is sorta already in LFS. i honestly can't tell if a car is approaching from the left or right now. but what would be nice would be the back to front noise.

Implementing it should not be hard especially if he uses OPENAL

Why would that help? If you can't tell left from right, how are you going to suddenly magically tell front from back (without visuals telling you)?

And I SERIOUSLY doubt Scawen uses a proprietary sound system like OPENAL (if that's what it is).

Quote from james12s :

tbo i would like surround sound, even if it cant happen, i would be good if it could

This is the whole point I was trying to make. Yes, I'm sure it's possible. But it won't add anything, won't increase realism worth a jot, and will take coding time away from anything fun, like clutch simulator or better damage, or day-night - something we'd all benefit from.

I'm all for realistic additions. But not when they are so worthless and not actually that realistic.

Incidentally, I assume you meant 'tbh'. Tbo is something altogether different http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tbo

well it would increase realism alot and reduce accidents abit cos you can hear where abouts a car is, although i do agree with the coding time, thats why i said if it was possible without much work it would be good, and it is by no means worthless

edit: and yeah i did mean tbh, im not feeling 100% atm

edit2: i agree the stuff you said is of higher priority but maybe in time some sort of surround sound sytem would be good but not vital

Quote from tristancliffe :

Why would that help? If you can't tell left from right, how are you going to suddenly magically tell front from back (without visuals telling you)?

And I SERIOUSLY doubt Scawen uses a proprietary sound system like OPENAL (if that's what it is).

well you might be able to hear someone coming up from behind though u might not be able to tell which side.
OpenAl is a sound API like directsound. and its free. i would be in the same bag as you if i thought it would be a long process to include it. but i don't.

The time when I notice any sort of sound positioning is when I have one headphone out of my ear and trun away from that ear. When I do this I cant hear the tires squelling. as for other cars, I haden't noticed the sound wich side the majority of the wave was comming from, i just use my mirrors.

Quote from james12s :

well it would increase realism alot and reduce accidents abit cos you can hear where abouts a car is, although i do agree with the coding time, thats why i said if it was possible without much work it would be good, and it is by no means worthless

But for it to be realistic you won't hear where the cars are, and so the accident rate remains the same. Sure you could boost the surround effect so you can (which might be a decent compromise for the lack of peripheral vision, but only if it's not overdone), but the details are not something to sort out now anyway...

Quote from lalathegreat :

well you might be able to hear someone coming up from behind though u might not be able to tell which side.
OpenAl is a sound API like directsound. and its free. i would be in the same bag as you if i thought it would be a long process to include it. but i don't.

Again, not really. You just can't hear other cars that well, no matter what the car (unless they are two very disimilar cars like Miata vs F40). You can here that they are there, but not where. You then use the mirrors and looking to work out where they are.

I very much doubt it's as simple a clicking the 'surround sound' tickbox in OpenAl or DS (or whatever Scawen uses).

Agreed. We don't *need* this right now (there are other things I'd like to see first).

But if the sounds get an upgrade sometime in the future, why not add surround support? Even if it wouldn't make a difference when you're racing, it would when you watch the replays - wich is nice.

So you're saying that in real life when you're driving you hear in mono?

I guess I just fail to understand why all of a sudden when put into a car, my brain should fail to interpret directional cues properly for no apparent reason. Of course, if there IS a reason for this, then I'm all ears (so to speak). I need some convincing to buy this opinion as my own.. : Even on video captures there is definitely stereo, and if the camera picks it up why wouldn't the drivers ears?

No it's not mono, as such, it's just that with your own engine noise, windows, metal, rearward facing exhausts, helmets, earplugs etc you really do have a hard time hearing the whereabouts of other cars.

And I'm not just referring to single seaters or open cockpits, but all cars.

Next time you go out as a passenger, close your eyes and listen for where other cars are. My guess is that you'd hear tyre roar of cars around you, but not engines, even at large throttle openings. Get rid of the tyre roar (you don't hear that whilst racing!) and make your own engine louder, before wearing helmets, and you end up approaching monosound.

I will try your experiment later.

If you want to go this route, patch V had the most realistic sounds. We should also not really hear the road cars idling, or really hear much of them at all until 3K+rpm. We definitely shouldn't be able to hear tire scrub, only some muffled screaming.

Cars don't have to be as drastically dissimilar to hear the other. The whole reason I got intrigued by SRT-4s was the fact that whilst driving merrily along one evening at 60k, I pulled beside one for a few seconds and noted a pleasant sound. When it decided to take off like a bat out of hell, the sound was so beautiful that I had to go look the car up on the net and see what it was all about. The sound of a turbine winding up (very quickly) a whoosh of air and a blaring exhaust, followed by a blow off and sequence of pops and burbles that sent shivers up my spine. AND, I could even tell it was on my drivers side (albeit my eyes were open... quite wide actually).

Quite frequently I can hear cars "winding out" even when surrounded by traffic, I'll make more of a note as to whether I can really pick up an (even reasonably precise) directional cue. I can think of one instance in particular where I KNOW I could hear a vehicle approaching from the right rear, and I knew it was coming from there 100%. But I wasn't wearing a helmet or ear plugs of course.

Even on one Eric's videos you can hear an M3 pass him, awfully loud.

But if you were driving an SRT4, racing against other SRT4s (and let's be honest, races are mostly against similar cars), I doubt you'd hear them at full throttle 30 feet away whilst you are at full throttle in a metal/glass box. Cruising at 60mph in a quiet car versus a cloud ar at full throttle isn't entirely fair

i see what your saying tristan, i think as sound goes the tire screach issue is more important, staying still with your wheels turned slightly to the side producing creaching just dont sound right, when it does come to the hearing cars around, i think if you concentrated on it you could hear it but if you were racing you wouldnt notice

If I was racing SRT4s would the track regs insist on windows up or windows down?

30 feet apart isnt' really racing.

How about 6 to 15 feet?

ho about in touring cars, your talking about a 1 inch especcially at brands hatch, the pickup trucks come out of graham hill bend literally with bumpers touching

Quote from ajp71 :

From the very little I've been bothered to watch of them they seem to have lots of crashes in short races and they seem to be prepared to make decisions that can lead to contact much like karters do despite the fact they may be trying not to in proper motor racing in cars at high speed contact is something that has to be avoided at any cost rather than just simply a bit inconvenient.

EDIT - @UncleBenny - I'm not interested in taking it to PM but I think I should add that firstly I do not believe for a second that sprint cars routinely hit 140mph, unless you've got some actual race trap speeds to prove it.

Oh yes and I don't feel that lasting a short race without a safety car period is anything to be proud of...

since this thread is still off topic i don't really care to go to PMs either.

http://www.eldoraspeedway.com/trackrecords.html

world of outlaws record is 12.707 seconds over a half mile. if i've done my math right that comes out to 141.7 mph, and that's AVERAGE over a half mile including turns.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

If I was racing SRT4s would the track regs insist on windows up or windows down

In the states they tend to require windows to be removed, everywhere else they tend to be fairly free but are often replaced with perspex to save weight and reduce costs in more intimate championships

Quote from UncleBenny :

world of outlaws record is 12.707 seconds over a half mile. if i've done my math right that comes out to 141.7 mph, and that's AVERAGE over a half mile including turns.

I'm genuinely impressed, that is the fastest of the fast round the longest fastest tracks though? I guess the majority of sprint cars aren't running anywhere near that, which is a good thing seeing some of the horrendously bad safety precautions seen at a lot of local tracks on youtube

Quote from ajp71 :

I'm genuinely impressed, that is the fastest of the fast round the longest fastest tracks though? I guess the majority of sprint cars aren't running anywhere near that, which is a good thing seeing some of the horrendously bad safety precautions seen at a lot of local tracks on youtube

nah, that's probably one of the fastest short tracks though, and the WoO are one of the top series so they're alot faster than most local guys. the longest tracks they've ran on are 1 mile and as far as i know they stopped running them because they were too dangerous. they were getting close to 180 mph at the end of the straightaways, i have no solid evidence to back that up though.

Quote :

I very much doubt it's as simple a clicking the 'surround sound' tickbox in OpenAl or DS (or whatever Scawen uses).

relative to everything else in the game its quite simple

Quote from james12s :

ho about in touring cars, your talking about a 1 inch especcially at brands hatch, the pickup trucks come out of graham hill bend literally with bumpers touching

touring car pickup trucks?

Eh?

Quote from lalathegreat :

relative to everything else in the game its quite simple

But we really don't know that though, do we. We have NO idea how LFS is coded in the sound department. Making 5.1 support might be a ten minute job, or a ten week job rewriting the sound system to work with it. We just don't know.

When 5.1 systems can be picked up a reasonable price and when most games support it, then it would be stupid to not include. 100% realistic or not...

Quote from The General Lee :

When 5.1 systems can be picked up a reasonable price and when most games support it, then it would be stupid to not include. 100% realistic or not...

the first part of that has already happened

So has the second.. LFS is the only game/sim I own that doesn't support it.

Quote from UncleBenny :

the first part of that has already happened

I know it has, sorry I should of made it more clearer. I didnt mean "when" as in going to happen, I mean "when" as in has happened.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

So has the second.. LFS is the only game/sim I own that doesn't support it.

nK Pro doesn't have surround sound either, RBR is the only sim with synthesized surround sound

Surround sound seems pretty ideal for racing games...