Does LFS2 have any FF effects so you can tell what the car is doing, I can feel bumps and the rumble strips etc but the actual car feels dead. I get more feedback on grip etc from the sound. Without these sounds their would be no feedback on what the car is doing grip wise.
In the GTL demo amongst others, you can actually feel the car on the edge of grip etc and feel cornering forces which enable better control.

Maybe its just my settings, or maybe there are more advanced settings in a LFS file or something, any help would be appreciated.

I am using a Momo Racing Force, and enjoy LFS2 but i think if I can sort the Force feedback would enable me to be quicker.

Del

Quote from Del-Dredd :

In the GTL demo amongst others, you can actually feel the car on the edge of grip etc and feel cornering forces which enable better control.

i was about to help you cfg until i read that. this is a joke right? isi ff is more canned than milli-vannilli live performance.
only ff better than lfs, is n2003. we'll get there...

Well, I've got the Momo Racing and I have quite a good feel for the car. Especially front wheel lock-ups are very evident in the FF, you can suddenly turn the wheels with less effort and you feel the sliding. I get a lot of feel from the FF, but as you said, tyre squeel also plays a large role.

I have the FF strength at 100% in the windows settings and at 60 in LFS. Also, make sure to disable "enable centering spring in Force Feedback games" in the windows settings.

Not tried GTL (I refuse to), but GTR's FF was a joke in terms of temming you what was happening. And I've just tried rFactor, and it's got to be the worse FF ever.

LFS tells you all you need to know, and doesn't lie like ALL other games. NR2003 is close in terms of feel, but I still prefer LFS's.

Del it sounds like your FFB is not working properly, I use a Momo and I can feel everything in the game.

Quote from Gunn :

Del it sounds like your FFB is not working properly, I use a Momo and I can feel everything in the game.

I also have a momo, but yet we can't feel when a car understeers, the steering should go light, right now it doesnt.

Quote from bobvanvliet :

I have the FF strength at 100% in the windows settings and at 60 in LFS. Also, make sure to disable "enable centering spring in Force Feedback games" in the windows settings.

There is a bug with some of the logitech wheels resulting in a small ffb dead zone in the centre of the wheel. To fix this you need to enable the centering spring but set it to zero rather than just disable it. I certainly noticed the difference on my Momo Racing.

There was a discussion about this before, and basically most people agreed it DOESN'T actually go light in a real car, so it's just an affect lots of other racing games have put in as a driving aid.

I can feel when I put too much power down in a FWD car though, the steering goes light then.

Quote :

There was a discussion about this before, and basically most people agreed it DOESN'T actually go light in a real car

have these people actually driven a REAL car and know what understeer actually is? Im gonna assume no and no. When the fronts wheels regain grip from major understeer, its really violent feeling, especially when your moving fast.

Thats because most road cars have power steering, even a car with power steering you can still feel it go light, just nowhere near as much as a car with no power steering. Of course you can feel when the front tires go light when your on the gas in a FWD car, but that has noting do do with not feeling the understeer in the game

Quote from steve :

I also have a momo, but yet we can't feel when a car understeers, the steering should go light, right now it doesnt.

Try the tip above by tailing.

Install the latest driver and software.

Quote from Gunn :

Try the tip above by tailing.

Install the latest driver and software.

I have the latest drivers/software, and ive used 4 different FF wheels, its quite simple, LFS does not have the effect coded into the force feedback.

Quote from steve :

have these people actually driven a REAL car and know what understeer actually is? Im gonna assume no and no. When the fronts wheels regain grip from major understeer, its really violent feeling, especially when your moving fast.

Thats because most road cars have power steering, even a car with power steering you can still feel it go light, just nowhere near as much as a car with no power steering. Of course you can feel when the front tires go light when your on the gas in a FWD car, but that has noting do do with not feeling the understeer in the game

In LFS you can feel power understeer just fine and the wheels go light as expected and with other forms the steering does not always go light as this depends on SO MANY FACTORS. Have you actually thought about WHAT you are feeling while you drive a car and WHERE you feel it from?

My guess is that you are attributing FAR too much information to the wheel when in reality you feel things light tires losing and gaining grip through changes in G force through your BODY.

Try this, go down a straight stretch in a RWD car, turn the wheel full lock left or right so the car is understeering, you tell me if it the steering go's light in the force feedback.

Quote from steve :

Try this, go down a straight stretch in a RWD car, turn the wheel full lock left or right so the car is understeering, you tell me if it the steering go's light in the force feedback.

... you cant physicaly turn the wheel fast enough to completly break traction instantly, chance are it would result in a spin, rather than the desired effect, now in FWD car you MIGHT be able to do it but it would still be rather difficult

Quote from steve :

I have the latest drivers/software, and ive used 4 different FF wheels, its quite simple, LFS does not have the effect coded into the force feedback.

Did you set the centering spring to 0%?

Quote from steve :

Try this, go down a straight stretch in a RWD car, turn the wheel full lock left or right so the car is understeering, you tell me if it the steering go's light in the force feedback.

Now try this. Get in a real RWD car and drive down a straight road instantly go full lock... oh wait you cant to that IRL because you normally have 900 degrees of lock to deal with.

Its worth getting a DFP for this game. Having a realistic level of lock on all the cars lets the FF give you far more info. Also if your PC will take it jump the FF steps up to 256 instead of 128 in the settings files.

Light steering does not happen on EVERY car the same BTW. There are many factors such as tires and their compound along with car setup and geometry etc.

Quote from steve :

I have the latest drivers/software, and ive used 4 different FF wheels, its quite simple, LFS does not have the effect coded into the force feedback.

All you should feel through the FF are the forces that are in play on the front wheels of your car as calculated in real time by the physics engine. There are no other FF effects in LFS at all nor should their be.

So when you feel the rumble strips its because the rumble strips put a twisting force on your front wheels which then get transmitted to your steering wheel as per RL, the same with every other effect you feel.

Hope that helps

Quote from Gunn :

Did you set the centering spring to 0%?

Yes.

The issue is not about 'full lock' or not. It doesnt need to be at full lock for the cars to understeer, I was trying to give a simple example.

When a car understeers in real life, the feel through the steering wheel gets light, its as simple as that.

Quote from steve :

I have the latest drivers/software, and ive used 4 different FF wheels, its quite simple, LFS does not have the effect coded into the force feedback.

Just to clear this point up, LFS will never have this effect 'coded into the force feedback'. LFS takes it's ffb directly from the forces exerted on the front wheels in game.
Now I'm not saying it's perfect and I don't have the experience to really comment on what you feel in a real car when the front wheels understeer. If there is something wrong though it's more than likely somewhere in the physics engine, most likely suspension or tyres.

Yes it does Steve. And LFS does the same, for me. However, this violent snap-back you talk about is because, either in real life, or in LFS, you have simply wound too much lock on. If you steered less, you'd never get this violence. It's the tyres hopping and crashing and banging against the tarmac as they cannot rotate freely, because you are trying to force a slip-angle of 30 degrees or something.

Maybe this could help the discussion :



DeliriumT

PS: seems I cant post in-line images... typical 10post threshold?
EDIT: nevermind, it was an option in my profile :P

Hi all

I was not expecting so much discussion and thanks for the suggestions, here are my current settings in windows.

Combined axis - No
Enable FF - yes
Effects strength - 97%
Spring strength - 97%
Damper strength - 0%
Center spring enabled - yes
Center Spring strength - 0%

I tried setting Spring strength to 0% and it did help and seemed to drive a lot better. This was suggested in another forums thread which I read.

I know different Sims feel better with various settings as some rely on spring strength others do not. I was just after some settings to try.

As for GTL and GTR for that matter, I have all aids switched off and dont use the default FFB settings. I use the settings produced by Zevious Zoquis in my plr file. These make a vast improvement to the quality of feedback. My N2003 settings again have been researched on the Net but I cannot remember where from, but I get excellent feel in GTP and the 330 Mod which are the ones I run most with this engine.

And KiDCoDEa, if you had bothered to help maybe I would have changed my settings and agreed with you.

Del

I share the opinion, that the steering doesn't get light enough when understeering heavily
I am not a fan of GTR either, but it's a known fact that it has been developed with the help of professional race drivers. So if they coded this artificial effect for light steering into the FF, I dare to say they did it for a reason.

Drive to Win ^^^ Nice book, although a bit misleading in places imo...

From experience, under-steer at high speed (If slight) can cause the wheel to become 'light' and loose. Heavy understeer normally results in a 'thrashing' from the wheel. This was without power steering, by the way. I think the difference is slight, but noticable. I don't have FF wheel, so I don't know how it works/feels, but this is my experience of throwing a car in to a spin at 112mph. It can feel lighter.... But if it feels light enough to make a 'genuine' difference to the feeling, that's worthy of such a long discussion, your car is likely to roll... Per experience again.