Another Q from me. I'm watching the 1995 San Marino GP and was thinking, could the modern F1 cars use the old Imola layout, or would it be still too unsafe?

DK

I personally think they could with a few minor modifications to the gravel traps and runoff. Only problem you would have is that there would be no overtaking on the track at all due to the 2 fast chicanes that made up the first two corners. At least the hairpin todays F1 being the way it is added some overtaking possibilities.

By 'old', I meant the pre 1995 layout

DK

Yes they could. If they make the runoff a bit safer. But Tamburello would still be flat out, and therefore car failures or driver error would still result in a big impact. It wasn't the cars that made Tamburello unsafe, but the lack of tyres and run off area. The run-off couldn't be enlarged (tree preservation orders), so the only option open was to change it to chicanes.

Full Throttle around that turn with not much run off etc. Im not sure how fast they would go, but if im right, if you have a failure at 300kph +, i really find that turn a deadly turn.. I know it sounds stupid, but id rather crash at 80kph on a 90degree turn or 30 at the sharp monoco hairpin, then 300kph on a soft bend..

and shame, senna passed away due to a failure on that turn. RIP . Hate to see it happen to someone else, even with the new tech in the modern F1 cars.

And could someone correct this if rong ay.. but before the tight small chicane in the new Imola, watching sennas final lap, theres a chicane instead of the double right before the small chicane, is that right? I would like to see that in today .


http://youtube.com/watch?v=xsOzJyDEnG0

That video is the OLD layout

That little chicane would be much more interesting than the double right. I wish they still used it.

Yes, Imola had a chicane at Acque Minerale prior to 1995. It was considered too tight for modern F1 cars and removed.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yes they could. If they make the runoff a bit safer. But Tamburello would still be flat out, and therefore car failures or driver error would still result in a big impact. It wasn't the cars that made Tamburello unsafe, but the lack of tyres and run off area. The run-off couldn't be enlarged (tree preservation orders), so the only option open was to change it to chicanes.

I thought the run-off couldn't be extended because of the river that runs along the outside of the first half of the lap?

Oh, and I much prefer the new Aqua Minerale to the old one...the chicane at the bottom was a little bit silly.

Was it a river? Might have been. I remember trees, but maybe that was just Monza?..

Quote from tristancliffe :

Was it a river? Might have been. I remember trees, but maybe that was just Monza?..

Yes, there's a river behind the barrier which prevents them moving it back.

Even with a SAFER barrier + tire stacks and such in front of that wall, there just isn't enough runoff to make a 300kph+ bend safe for F1. A failure would send the car flying across the sandtrap with minimal speed reduction, i.e. Berger's and Senna's crashes there in 1993 and 1994 respectively.

I which case bring the wall CLOSER to the track, so that the cars can only have a glancing blow, rather than nearly head on. Sure the car gets dragged along the wall a long way, and debris might become an issue after accidents, but they'd be a lot safer for it. Wheel tethers are pretty good in that sort of accident (not so good in head long high speed accidents, where there is too much momentum change to manage).

Allowing a car to straighten up and hit walls head on (like in big run off areas) is asking for trouble.

Quote from Lateralus :

Yes, there's a river behind the barrier which prevents them moving it back.

Even with a SAFER barrier + tire stacks and such in front of that wall, there just isn't enough runoff to make a 300kph+ bend safe for F1. A failure would send the car flying across the sandtrap with minimal speed reduction, i.e. Berger's and Senna's crashes there in 1993 and 1994 respectively.

Berger's was 1989. You can make a 300kph+ bend safe for F1, look at the old Hockenheim layout, for instance

DK

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Berger's was 1989. You can make a 300kph+ bend safe for F1, look at the old Hockenheim layout, for instance

DK

Was that not really in fact just a bent straight you are talking about - which means if the car goes off the angle is very shallow. The problem with the Tamburrelo was the angle that you hit the wall i think rather than the speed of the corner compared to your hockenheim example.

Tristan's idea would be the safest in my opinion. Sure, the speed at impact would be close to 300km/h but at least in most circumstances the car will not decelerate all that quickly because of the angle of impact.

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Berger's was 1989

Yup. I don't know why I thought '93.

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

You can make a 300kph+ bend safe for F1, look at the old Hockenheim layout, for instance

DK

Which bend would that be?

Quote from Lateralus :

Which bend would that be?

At the old Hockenheim: I'm guessing the Ostkurve. It's the one between the two chicanes; a long right hander. Where Jim Clark died after, supposedly, a puncture/suspension failure.

Quote from J@tko :

At the old Hockenheim: I'm guessing the Ostkurve. It's the one between the two chicanes; a long right hander. Where Jim Clark died after, supposedly, a puncture/suspension failure.

I thought he meant the pre-2002 Hockenheim. With chicanes.

No way in hell the old fast Hockenheim with no chicanes was safe. Most of it had a small grass strip straight into trees.

Quote from Lateralus :

I thought he meant the pre-2002 Hockenheim.

He did. Is there an Ostkurve at the new one then?

Quote from J@tko :

He did. Is there an Ostkurve at the new one then?

i know it has nothing to do with this or with thread, but i just love that new Hockenheim ring

Quote from J@tko :

He did. Is there an Ostkurve at the new one then?

There's an easternmost curve, which is the sharp right-hand hairpin at the end of the backstraight. 45mph or so I'd guess.

Quote from Lateralus :

There's an easternmost curve, which is the sharp right-hand hairpin at the end of the backstraight. 45mph or so I'd guess.

Oh - now I realise. Ost = East in German! (I know no German at all!)

I doubt even cars of the future will be taking the new Ostkurve at 300kph! Sorry for the misunderstanding! (and for the off topic!)