First of all, let me say the new update is great news, and a massive thumbs up to the devs for implementing all of this.

Now, in Scawen's video, he mentioned that clutch wear and engine damage have been improved, and that sequential users will 'need to ease off the throttle in order to shift up', amongst other things.

Do these changes amount to rewarding clutch and h-shifter drivers, or will it not make much of a difference? As a clutch and shifter user myself, it would be nice to benefit from reduced engine wear etc from not flat shifting for example.. Also, if clutch users are rewarded, will there be a backlash from other racers? Should there be server level options such as 'clutch only'?

What do you think?

It sounds like shifting will be bit like netkar, unless you don't lift it won't change no matter what, but I guess that works such way only if you don't press clutch, this is good thing together with clutchless shifts you can use sequential properly then and I believe it will have quite some effect.

Clutch heating I believe is set to such level that if racer constantly shifts with lot of clutch slip it will cause problems, I believe that it really effects driving too, but also that effects to shifter users too, they need to take care not to slip too much of it.

But these are only guesses, it is now less than a month until we know for sure how it is

Anyway it sounds really good with engine damage and realistic limiters

Quote from Origamiboy :

Now, in Scawen's video, he mentioned that clutch wear and engine damage have been improved, and that sequential users will 'need to ease off the throttle in order to shift up', amongst other things.

There was no mention about engine damage or clutch wear, don't make up things, please.

It said gearbox and engine simulation was improved and that you can heat up your clutch and stall your engine.

Wonder how the stalling on the grid is going to shake up starts?

Quote from Blackout :

There was no mention about engine damage or clutch wear, don't make up things, please.

It said gearbox and engine simulation was improved and that you can heat up your clutch and stall your engine.

Doesn't that amount to the same thing? Either way thats the way I understood it, I'm not trying to make anything up.

No, clutch heat and clutch wear are different. So are engine damage and clutch damage. All we know is stalling (not damage, heat or wear) on the engines, and heat on the clutch (not wear or damage).

Quote from tristancliffe :

No, clutch heat and clutch wear are different. So are engine damage and clutch damage. All we know is stalling (not damage, heat or wear) on the engines, and heat on the clutch (not wear or damage).

Ok, I see. Thanks for clearing that up..

Quote from tristancliffe :

No, clutch heat and clutch wear are different. So are engine damage and clutch damage. All we know is stalling (not damage, heat or wear) on the engines, and heat on the clutch (not wear or damage).

Just out of curiosity, would you think clutch wear is actually needed? I'm probably smart as left handed ape what it comes mechanics and stuff, but I can't help wondering if wear is needed.

Because, if the clutch starts to slip, it should stop working as it should because the heat itself. I could imagine that in LFS's short races (and the fact you get a fresh car every race) clutch wear could be rather irrelevant this point? Or does clutches wear down in real racing that much?

Hard to tell. Normally you'd at least need clutch damage too. I don't know what the effects of clutch heating alone are, only that after going over a certain temperature you basically "melt" your clutch, but this damage is irreversible, so just letting it cool down won't fix anything.

In something like the F1 car, with a clutch the size of your fist and the power of several small countries, clutch wear would be an issue - it get's hot, slips, wears out = no more clutch (even if you let it cool again).

On the more sensible cars, or road cars, I'd doubt we'd ever notice it really, so heat on it's own would be enough. Who knows whether Scawen has added wear as well as heat... We'll find out soon enough, and I doubt it'll be the last drivetrain update ever anyway, so there will always be scope for adding it.

Quote from tristancliffe :

In something like the F1 car, with a clutch the size of your fist and the power of several small countries.

But isn't it the torque clutches fear?

Quote from richy :

Wonder how the stalling on the grid is going to shake up starts?

In the UF1, XFG and XRG, probably nobody using manual clutch will be able to get it off the line, but all the auto-clutchers will be saved by their robot left foot. The rest of the cars you'll still be able to bury the pedal and off you'll go, just like we do now.

I want a UF1 race at BL1R with 30 manual clutch drivers though - the start would be very entertaining!

Power = n x Torque x rpm, and I wanted an rpmless unit

Get SI units and you can sell this n... or trade it for higher RPMs

In the video, Scawen says "clutches can overheat". This implies at least in-game clutch problems through misuse, no?

Quote from Scawen's video :

Engines now have more inertia, realistic redlines. Clutches can overheat and engines can be stalled.

A clutch can only handle so much torque, torque past this limit will just make the clutch slip, rather than be transmitted to the wheels to drive the vehicle. Adding clutch heating just means you can reduce this torque limit with temperature.

For anyone using the text version of LFS, the patch will add the following message:
"You become aware of a distrinctly non-rubber burning smell. What do you want to do?"

So what causes clutch overheating? Flat-shifting in the road cars?

Quote from tristancliffe :

In something like the F1 car, with a clutch the size of your fist and the power of several small countries, clutch wear would be an issue - it get's hot, slips, wears out = no more clutch (even if you let it cool again).

On the more sensible cars, or road cars, I'd doubt we'd ever notice it really, so heat on it's own would be enough. Who knows whether Scawen has added wear as well as heat... We'll find out soon enough, and I doubt it'll be the last drivetrain update ever anyway, so there will always be scope for adding it.

Yes, if you drive like a granny (3000-4000rpm and car barely moves) you will fry your clutch, even if it is not worn thin, clutch and flywheel has almost no friction as surfaces will go glass like (how do you call it in international language?), do several burnouts with clutch and it surely is failing, so I think it can happen with road cars too.

Would be sweet if we would be required to go Halfords and buy new clutch before we can continue abuse, it would teach kids some truths of life

Quote from thisnameistaken :

So what causes clutch overheating? Flat-shifting in the road cars?

Clutches can overheat any time they get lots of slippage, they shouldn't really be an issue in normal racing with a reasonably realistically treated car. Clutches don't tend to produce much slippage in low power cars and actually plates cracking on cool down after a session is the most common (and very expensive and terminal) issue, both are cars have done this in practice and ended up locking the clutch together and successfully completed races from a push start afterwards

AFAIK there's no such thing as flat shifting IRL (possible exceptions of drag racing etc.) all real racing cars have the throttle bodies closed either by ape or super computer. If they didn't they simply wouldn't last. A true sequential gearbox is usually shifted clutchlessly (an F1 gearbox is different) and as such cannot be shifted when the gears are meshed to together with the torque of the engine being applied, so real cars have to have the engine torque cut somehow, the simplest solution is to lift the right foot. It's exactly the same reason why you'll find you can't take your road car out of gear without removing the engine torque (either by clutching or lifting off). Any attempt at flat shifting or not vaguely rev matching with clutched shifts will result in forces tearing just about everything apart and it is unlikely to last long enough so you have to worry about the clutch overheating.

Spark cut

Quote from ajp71 :

Clutches can overheat any time they get lots of slippage

So this is unlikely to ever happen during a race in LFS, then.

On the contrary, they should get absolutely destroyed if the flatshifting is continued as now. I hope the clutch simulation becomes more realistic, though. Right now we seem to have infinitely strong clutches that never slip when fully engaged, no matter how much torque is applied.

Sounds like the gearbox has been reworked and methods of shifting are changing, so it's not possible to know yet how it all will come together.

I'm thinking, again, advantage goes to auto clutchers. How can you slip the clutch if the computer is doing it for you?

Talking tintops, clutch and h-shift, I would think that the only time you would get too much heat in the clutch during racing is at any time you start from a stand still, at race start, or any time you spin out and start back out from a stand still. For me at least in my real car on public normal road driving, clutch slippage is very minimal when shifting gears.

But, I don't know how that would relate to a smaller lighter clutch in race cars or single seaters. In the road cars, if assumed a stock clutch, they are made for ordinary folks driving on ordinary roads. They are designed to take slipping on a normal stock road car.

I assume full throttle gear changes will cause overheating ... when the clutch en/dis-engages and you are on full whack power, the excess friction will cause heat and wear.

Only time will tell though I think LFS could use some more "Punish bad behaviour"!