BTW, did DoN take the footage himself or did the devs supply it to him?

Probably himself, cuz he's great.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Hank, real men don't use hands, they use... other lengthy appendages

so you wear a sock on your knob whilst driving? Different strokes...

What else is the FFB for?!

Quote from Zachary Zoomy :

BTW, did DoN take the footage himself or did the devs supply it to him?

DoN has the new stuff, he is on the exit credits

Sources: new patch thread

DoN = Beta Tester.

I do think the fact he uses Custom Textures in LFS Promo's is stupid, but meh.

Quote from Jakg :

I do think the fact he uses Custom Textures in LFS Promo's is stupid, but meh.

Well not "stupid" - it might be misleading if it's official promo videos. However most (if not all?) of the stuff seen in the current video which is an official promo appears to be stock LFS textures, especially considering it's supposed to show off Eric's new work.

Quote from Hankstar :

Real men race in socks. Shoes are for the weak!

get some real men pedals (example: http://www.virtualperformanceparts.com/index_en.html )and you'll need shoes...

Quote from three_jump :

get some real men pedals (example: http://www.virtualperformanceparts.com/index_en.html )and you'll need shoes...

But you'll have to sell your real man's shoes and a real man kidney to get those.

PS. Those guys are in need of a real website man. That perpetual onmouseover navigation system is ridiculously annoying.

with the stalling when spinning discussions going on, wasn't it said in the video something about people pulling in the gear change lever to stop from stalling? This means you don't actually need a clutch, but simply the ability to keep hold of he wheel, which you should be doing anyway!

Quote from Boris Lozac :

EXACTLY how i felt back in 2003.. I instantly realised that it is something special and finaly something realistic! So those people who are put off by that are not the people that should play LFS.. There is MORE than enough other titles out there that can satisfy their needs, LFS doesn't have to be among them!

But who are you to decide who should be playing LFS? Who made you judge of what other peoples needs are? What's to say that the next complete noob with no idea about car control will never see the value in the realistic simulation that LFS is?
I'm glad the devs have some sense about them and realise that these small concessions, which have virtually no negative effects at all outside of pissing off supposedly hArDcOrE sim racers, open the wonderful world of LFS to those who might not initially see it's value.

Not that I think at this stage that the line in the video is anything more than an AI related tool but I would welcome the inclusion of a beginners racing line as I still remember how much help it was back when I first started learning SBK2001. It would have absolutely zero effect on my LFS experience but be very useful for someone new to sim racing.

About the racing line:

• I can only imagine this as server side option to allow it the user to turn it on / off
  
• I think it can definatly help the beginners to get an idea to get round the corners without crashing everyone else (Blackwood T1, demo server anyone?)
  
• If you don't like it, noone can force you to use it

This reminds me a bit of the forced cockpit view discussion... In the end do you really care what helps the other one is using when you can have a good fight with him?
Apart from that I can't imagine that any league would make a use of this feature... (or the "popular" ctra servers...).

tailing: while beginner aids are being added before we have features like a pit board so we can drive completely without the HUD, you'll see the hardcore simmers complain. Because LFS is a simulation first and then a training tool. Still the addition of this is development related so it doesn't necessarily show that LFS is starting to lean towards the latter.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

The problem I see is that the 'hardcore' sim racers are considered to be the ones who spend hundreds on the best wheel, then make their own little cockpit to sit in. I find your attitude about the whole thing quite disturbing to be honest, you think just because someone doesn't know the racing line and braking points they just shouldn't own the game? It stinks of elitism.

+1

Why should people be turned away from a brilliant simulation just because they aren't considered 'hardcore' enough because they don't own a wheel, or don't know the track or braking points. There's already enough tension between the 'hardcore' racers and the new racers, just look through the forums or look on any server when a new racer (new to LFS that is) joins, they get flamed to death. Or even when an old racer returns

LFS should be accessible to everyone IMHO and if Scavier decide they want to make it a complete hardcore sim, then that's their decision, but it'll turn a lot of people, including potential license buyers away. Look at nKpro for instance.

Also, WTF is with all the elitism on the forums/in-game, the whole 'z0mg! teh keyboarders are using the wrong controllers!!' line of thought. If you took KB/mouse support out, people would just find a workaround. I did for nK, I used joy2key. Not everyone can buy/can use a wheel, there are people out there who have a job, who have a family, or are disabled or just don't have space for one. Or they can't afford one Yes. It's true. A wheel/pedal set takes up a fair amount of room. Are those people somehow not 'hardcore' enough to play LFS? The attitudes of a group of people on this forum stinks of total and utter elitism. 'oh, person X has a job/doesn't have a wheel/is asking for n00b features/is doing something else to piss off the 'hardcore' people/is on a cruise server/is wanting more cars, he /she shouldn't play LFS isn't 'hardcore'.' IT IS TOTAL AND UTTER FECKING BULLSHIT.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Do you want to have a sim that nearly nobody plays, or a sim that has some arcade features, but is open to everyone?

DK

As a member of the G25 Owners Club, I'm going to struggle with manual blipping...

As the pedal set was designed by a retarted six year old, the brake and throttle as so far apart and sit at such a crap angle that poor old bigfooted me can't heel&toe very well. So I don't bother - I can heel&toe pretty much any real car (unless they have pedals designed by the same retard).

In LFS I normally either used the clutch with auto-blip, or two-pedals with manual blip.

I think I'm going to get rid of the G25 pedals and plug in my ECCI two-pedal setup again, as the additional pedal ultimately reduces control due to the stupid arrangement of the pedals. Either that or I glue on an extension to the brake pedal so that I can reach with ease - I'll have to look into that!!

Edit: Only £65 to have a third pedal for the ECCI with G25 compatibility! Woot!!!! Now that does fill me with joy

Edit2: Sod it, I've paid for a clutch pedal and G25 adaptor for my PMBII ECCI pedal setup - woot!!!!!

Aslong as any option, be it hardcore, or taking new drivers by the hands, it NOT forced upon people, and it's able to be turned on and off by server admins, I really can't see any issues.

I would be more than happy with joining a "hardcore" server, where everthing that can be forced is, likewise, if I wanted too, I could race on a "new driver server" with all the helps enabled.

I really can't see why people get up the arse about hardcore options, aslong as they aren't forced on YOU by LFS (not server admins), then I don't know what all the bithcing and moaning is about.........

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Why should people be turned away from a brilliant simulation just because they aren't considered 'hardcore' enough because they don't own a wheel, or don't know the track or braking points. There's already enough tension between the 'hardcore' racers and the new racers, just look through the forums or look on any server when a new racer (new to LFS that is) joins, they get flamed to death. Or even when an old racer returns

Because they can't use the simulation properly anyway - without a wheel there are WAY better games to play. If you don't know the tracks then you learn - just like in real life. No need for twatty driving lines displayed. I consider it tantermount (sp?) to cheating - especially if used during hotlapping.

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

LFS should be accessible to everyone IMHO and if Scavier decide they want to make it a complete hardcore sim, then that's their decision, but it'll turn a lot of people, including potential license buyers away. Look at nKpro for instance.

I hope LFS isn't accessible to everyone. We have a niche product, and it should stay that way. Elitist? Yes, but so is real life. If you are stupid you become a dustman, if you are clever you become a doctor etc. Don't ever try and convince me that life isn't elitist. The only people that do are the people that suffer because of it - tough shit!

nK's problem isn't the hardcore stuff (I think that is great), but the fact that it's so bug ridden as to be a waste of time trying it. LFS does have that problem, as Scawen remains part of the community. Kunos doesn't give a shit.

Quote :

Also, WTF is with all the elitism on the forums/in-game, the whole 'z0mg! teh keyboarders are using the wrong controllers!!' line of thought. If you took KB/mouse support out, people would just find a workaround. I did for nK, I used joy2key. Not everyone can buy/can use a wheel, there are people out there who have a job, who have a family, or are disabled or just don't have space for one. Or they can't afford one Yes. It's true. A wheel/pedal set takes up a fair amount of room. Are those people somehow not 'hardcore' enough to play LFS? The attitudes of a group of people on this forum stinks of total and utter elitism. 'oh, person X has a job/doesn't have a wheel/is asking for n00b features/is doing something else to piss off the 'hardcore' people/is on a cruise server/is wanting more cars, he /she shouldn't play LFS isn't 'hardcore'.' IT IS TOTAL AND UTTER FECKING BULLSHIT.

No it's not. You've been bitten by the political correctness bug, and are becoming a wanker with it. If you are disabled and can't use a wheel, then play other games with controllers designed for your abilities. Or design a controller that works with LFS and your abilities. If you are poor then save up. If you don't have space then sell some shit - it only takes up a tiny bit of space!

The fact is that the more cruisers and NFS type people that play LFS, the more the reputation of LFS is watered down. The more keyboard/mouse/joystick support that is added/kept waters down the reputation of LFS.

If you don't like the generally elitist attitude, then no one is forcing you to play LFS. No one is forcing you to buy a wheel. It's merely suggested that if you want a vaguely realistic experience you HAVE to have a wheel.

Quote :

Wake up and smell the coffee. Do you want to have a sim that nearly nobody plays, or a sim that has some arcade features, but is open to everyone?
DK

I'll take the sim nobody plays EVERY time. Obviously it will have some arcade features - it's a computer game, so it has to, but minimising them is a good thing. Let's not pander to the people who aren't really after a hardcore simulation - rFactor, GT4, NFS etc cater for them, so there is plenty of space for a hardcore, niche product that only attracts the ultimate in geeks. And I bet a lot of people secretly agree with me (in part, at least ).

I was about to respond to the "only rich g25 bastards can now recover from a spin" -matter, and say that a workaround for that would be making a system that will engage neutral when both up and downshift buttons are pressed. But this thread moves so fast, and has changed in topic I guess.

And I don't have to agree secretly with Tristan. Good post. I don't understand why anything but wheels should be favored, and why should we let minority rule?

When I first played LFS (around 2002) and screwed T1 I was very happy because I like simulators. If a newbie realises that it's not NFS he has two options, he tries to be more careful until he can go around the track and eventually he can race online or he can just give it up. It's a little harder to drive without throttle blip but I don't really see why is that a problem when everybody have to drive without it. Everybody will be slower a little except those who are willing to blip (if you can't simply be more careful with downshifts). Maybe we need more warnings or more training for newbies but I think LFS going in the right direction. For example some new players tend to choose GTT when they first start LFS because they think they can handle it because in XY game they were pros. There should be a little message(only at first start) that this is a powerful RWD road car if you experience difficulties choose one of the lower powered cars or click Training in main menu.

Edit: Most newbies are using automatic transmission so they don't really have to worry about these things and I think blipping is pretty easy with keyboard + mouse combo.

I feel sorry for you Tristian, you never even can mange to put yourselfe into others place can you?
You simply just canot understand that everyone ain`t like you, and a lot of the things you say is completely bullshit. If all people was like you there would be like 90% less people playing the game.

And that would be a good thing! LFS is too popular at the moment, especially after the surge because of the Sauber, and the cruising posse.

I can understand that lots of people 'aren't like me'. But I also understand that a lot of people who play LFS don't really enjoy most aspects of it - they want it to be finished tomorrow by a group of monkies, with track/car editors, bling graphics, drifting tournaments, crusing inclusions, driver deaths, sampled sound, support for ANY controller, radios, bodykits, NOS, arcade overlays, driver assists...

I, and others like me, realise that that isn't the point of LFS, and would prefer a simulation of racing at it's most purist (with obvious concessions for computing, which is a disclaimer I've had to start adding as too many stupid people read the words but don't understand the meaning), without aids, concessions to crap controls (or crap jobs, crap parents or any other reason why people play simulations without getting the single biggest improver of realism - a wheel), or too much arcadey nonsense. I'd even like a lot of the telemetry to be removed from the road cars so that hotlapping is more about 'feel' than about number crunching between runs.

You've been here for 3 years - it's Tristan, not Tristian. I think that explains a lot though.

Quote from The Very End :

I feel sorry for you Tristian, you never even can mange to put yourselfe into others place can you?
You simply just canot understand that everyone ain`t like you, and a lot of the things you say is completely bullshit. If all people was like you there would be like 90% less people playing the game.

TVE, you can't really say that... 90% of what Tristan says is the truth. And the other 10% is the BRUTAL truth.

How can you say sutch a thing?
How can you say that you wish new people no welcome?
It`s, it`s just utterly selvfish to say something like that. New players are allways nice, maybe the need some time to get used to the game, but doesn`t need that?! Remember old days tristian, S1 demo? I`ll bet you couldn`t manage a lap after 10 tries. But did anyone said you wasn`t welcomed to LFS? NOBODY said that, it`ss just lately you and some other ****s that put a crown on themself and screaming out n00bs and worse to new people.

I`m glad, as I said before, that only a few members are like you, with that attitute.

Edit : And blueflame, no comment.

I understand you are trying to be friendly and sticking up for the newbies of LFS, and that isn't what Tristan is talking about. I think He is talking about specifically, the kind of people, that play a game, and the drop tools when a new game comes out, and sell their old game, when they haven't even completed it. The kind of people, that drive with driving aids, and STILL suck. The kind of people that only know of a Pagani Zonda and Koeningsegg because of Top Gear, and the kind of people who don't realise the Vauxhall Monaro IS Austrailian (even THOUGH they mention that on Top Gear )

Quote from BlueFlame :

that isn't what Tristan is talking about

Ah, a spokesman. We always need people to tell us what people are talking about.

Quote :

I think He is talking about

Nice capitalization.

Quote :

The kind of people

Oh no, the horror... of That Kind Of People... sheesh...