I understand the theory of the relationship between camber and tyre temoperature, so I would like to ask how do your folks set up camber..

1. How much camber do you use in each track?

2. How much difference in tyre temperature between the inner and outer? 10 C or 5C, or other values? when to use 5C , when to use 10C?

3. i race in blackwood using FZR I set to camber to 0.0 (center camber) and note that the difference in tyre temperature between outer and inner are 5 to 10 C, should I set to poistive camber to lower the temperature, I also wonder in real life, a positive or a center camber will be set up? My laptime is around top 1:11, and use a very neutral setup (steering angle set to 13 and just little bit oversteering)

4 If I set camber to 0, how come the tyre load (press f9 and the grey area) is uneven, is this normal ? because I orginally think if the camber is 0, the tyre load should be the same between exterior and interior. Do I have a misconception here? According to here http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html "Since most independent suspensions are designed so that the camber varies as the wheel moves up and down relative to the chassis", does that mean softer suspension will result in more negative camber, and it explains to me why 0 camber will give uneven tyre load?

I have been searcing around google for those answers, most of the article just described the theory, not the actual data

Thanks

0 camber and steering angle set to 13 degrees? That's crazy.
Atleast set some negative camber, then you will have more grip on the corners and then use more steering angle so you can turn more sharply.

i find out how much body lean i get in the corners so that as i go round corner i get all the tread on the ground

Pre my finding of LFS, it is this 5 - 10 degree difference inside to outside tire temperatures that I've read in racing (sim) setup guides that benoityip talks about.

Now LFS... Receive any 'fast' setup from someone on the servers or on the forum here and you will see so much greater differences in inner to outer tire temperature. So great that the outside of the tire is still at the same temp. as when the race starts, dead cold blue. Why is this if you want the entire tread to be touching the track in cornering to give you the most grip?

It is mostly the fronts you see this with. Watch others during a race and note how the rears are green colored the entire tire width, but the fronts are blue, close to green or green, and very bright green or even red across from outside to inside.

Why? If you are using the entire tread surface, the inside, middle, and outside should be equal, or should be as the OP states, 5 or 10 degrees difference.

This has confused me ever since going from racing NR2003 to LFS.

Tyres in LFS are more camber sensitive than temperature sensitive.

Quote from geeman1 :

0 camber and steering angle set to 13 degrees? That's crazy.
Atleast set some negative camber, then you will have more grip on the corners and then use more steering angle so you can turn more sharply.

That is not what I mean, I want to lower the exterior temperature and interior temperture around 4 to 8C, 0 camber gives me the answer, I know it is crazy, that's why I ask, if I set to -1, the difference in tyre temperature is greater than 10, which I think it is crazy as well.... I use 13 for steering angle, because I am using a momo wheel (not g25, in g25, i may probably set to 24, and g25 got a way larger steering angle), you can also tell in real life by watching F1 onboard camera how much steering they use

Anyway, this is out of topic,

Quote from mrodgers :

This has confused me ever since going from racing NR2003 to LFS.

What even more confuses me is different tyres have different optimum camber setting. While 5 to 10 may be a general guideline, but I don't know the theory supported it... I still don't know how to find the optimum camber. I just wonder what the real world is using, whether a different in tyre temperature above 15C to 20C will blow your tyre up after a couples of laps

If people use excessive camber to gain speed, it may also show the pitfall of the tyre model in LFS, while I am not an expertise in this area, Gaining lateral grip in corner without losing too much longitunel grip in acc and brake is not quite right. If this is true, real driver will use extremely negative camber for qualifying !! as again, if you have a chance to watch onboard F1 camber, this is not true

For example in http://www.remoracing.com.au/products/mg_tyre_tips.php
they said "In general, we have found the best settings for maximum performance and tyre life is to set your toe-in to zero, and set your camber so that the temperature across the tyre tread is fairly equal. If your front tyres are overheating, reducing caster may help."

I run as much as I can, to do this, I set it to 2.5 live camber, thats not the camber u added but the toal camber that is on the tyre (big difference)

I go out on a few laps like that, and I watch the tyre load while cornering, if during the corner I see the outside bar go right up that means your loosing tyrte contact patch, and not utilizine all of the tire.
so u add a bit more until its right
usually during a big corner u want the bars to be all the same exactly as possible, that means your getting optimum contact patch on the road.

then you need to run some laps like that to see how the tyre responds to it, (temp) remember even if the surface gets hot (red), it doesnt mean ur frying the tires, you want the whole tyre to be light blue/green to be optimum, if you are frying the tyres, adjust your springs, dampers and downforce, and tyre pressures (increase tyre pressure to help keep them cooler) but grip less , and the more pressure u add the more the middle of the tire will contact more so watch out for that. to relieve some strain off the tires, and find a happy medium

Quote from benoityip :

If people use excessive camber to gain speed, it may also show the pitfall of the tyre model in LFS, while I am not an expertise in this area, Gaining lateral grip in corner without losing too much longitunel grip in acc and brake is not quite right. If this is true, real driver will use extremely negative camber for qualifying !! as again, if you have a chance to watch onboard F1 camber, this is not true

This is true - at the crazy cambers some people hotlap with, they should have really crap braking ability and/or traction accelerating.

I think it's a problem with the combining of lateral and longitudinal tyre modelling, as well as having slightly 'soft' tyre carcasses.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I think it's a problem with the combining of lateral and longitudinal tyre modelling, as well as having slightly 'soft' tyre carcasses.

And the fact that tyre heat seems to be generated by friction rather than heat produced by manipulation of rubber (i.e. the disipation of energy as heat) It's the latter that generates most of the tyre heat irl.

So, how come the tyre sidewalls heat up with low pressure tyres then? Surely can't be because there's any friction on them...

Quote from benoityip :

If people use excessive camber to gain speed, it may also show the pitfall of the tyre model in LFS, while I am not an expertise in this area, Gaining lateral grip in corner without losing too much longitunel grip in acc and brake is not quite right. If this is true, real driver will use extremely negative camber for qualifying !! as again, if you have a chance to watch onboard F1 camber, this is not true

Well, don't go to extremes. They have some negative camber in the tires in real life too. The tires are not completely straight. Sure, you lose some straightline grip, but you need grip in the corners too It's all about finding the right compromise. You can also reduce the tyre pressure the get more rubber to the gorund even if the tyres are not perfectly straight.
By the way if you set your camber to 0 in the setup, you will still have some camber depending on the rest of the setup. You can view the live camber in the garage screen when you enable the suspension view.

Quote :

You can view the live camber in the garage screen when you enable the suspension view.

Or by simply looking at the degree value in the parenthesis right of the camber adjustment. No need to open the suspension view.

Quote from geeman1 :

By the way if you set your camber to 0 in the setup, you will still have some camber depending on the rest of the setup. You can view the live camber in the garage screen when you enable the suspension view.

i think thats were he is getting confused, 0 camber in the setup (slider) doesnt mean the car will roll out with 0 camber, as stated above live camber shows this, so if you want your car to run "true" 0 camber go off your "live camber" information...

as regards heat in the tires, its a imposible question to answer, ive seen drivers use my set and get completly different heat patterns, due to driving style and racing lines e.c.t,

but as a general rule, the inside of the tire will always take the punishment and therfore get a lot hotter this is unavoidable, because you will either pick up the heat in braking, or in the corners.. so if your generating to mutch heat in the hi-G corners you would add - camber so the tire is flat-er in the corners, but you then start loosing grip under braking and generating more heat there, because the tires are not flat and riding on the insides, that brings us to caster and toe, witch ads to the ballancing act...

me personly camber is one of the last things i tweak, because the way i look at it is the tires are the thing in between the road and ya setup, set the car up then set camber to accomodate, never the other way round you will be chasing ya tail, cus springs/dampers/arb's have such a high effect..

some drivers say its best to have = heat spread across the tire, not only is this not always impossible, i dont always find it offers the best grip..

Quote from Gizz :

i think thats were he is getting confused, 0 camber in the setup (slider) doesnt mean the car will roll out with 0 camber, as stated above live camber shows this, so if you want your car to run "true" 0 camber go off your "live camber" information...

Thanks, I was confused, so I should look at live camber now

no problem

im just glad you understood it lol, after reading my post back to myself just i think i went a bit off topic, i dont get let out often ou see

Also, you have to consider that the wheels aren't staying 'straight' when steering... Using +0.0 camber is most likely to wear the middle/outside of the tires so I'd suggest you to use at least -0.5 and then try to adjust so you get a nice e.g. 77-76-71 after a couple of laps. The outside of the tire should not (in my opinion) be as hot as the inner part of the tire. Now just play with it and find what suits you best.