but what is wrong in drifting? lfs is best sim ever. Drifters want only 45* steer lock in set. it's only an option, many licences are bought only for drifting. 45* steer lock isn't wrong for racers, because they can also take less steer lock. add 45* steer is not problem for Scawen i guess.. so please Devs, listen drift scene..
thank you in advance, greetings
Woz: Gunn already replied for me. So I guess this is all covered. Believe me I didn't start playing LFS yesterday.
I completly don't understand you. Are you trying to say that 36 is enough, because for "drift racers"(who "drift race") it is enough? Therfor you are supporting people who do at the moment the most stupid thing as drift racing nowadays is a demo thing based on minimizing drift angle to the minimum to get a better lap time - which is pointless, and please don't even ask me to explain why.
Honestly, the selfishnes of some people in this thread is on a unbelievable level. The only reason I can see is against 45 argument in this thread is "No, because drifters would use it". It's not a feature that would make LFS unrealistic. It's not a feature that would take much time to code(a little tiny time to be exact). It's not a feature that would hurt anyone who is racing - 45 degrees is useless in racing. It's not a feature as unrealistic and weird as many current setup options(Jump Bouncy setups, super precise gear ratios etc.).
Other thing is, the way LFS street cars are used in many leagues now is very unrealistic. Who has seen street cars in real life rally cross without roll cages? Or cars with setups like LFS street cars in races like "STTC"(That virtual leaugue connected to CTRA) without roll cages and other safety regulations as well. Does it mean those cars at the moment should be just possible to mod a little, and allow it for simple "track days simulation" ? No, because why taking out the experience of LFS? And the fun of it.
Does the fact that it's unrealistic when people who don't use clutch with LFS cars that have clutch means that autoclutch should be removed for those people?
Does the fact that people who don't use H shifter(even if they have one, but hey ! IT makes them slower right?) with LFS street cars mean that only players with H shifters should be allowed to use those cars?
Should I continue? Is a 45 degree really such a big problem? Or is it just in your heads?
Once again, another ignorant sweet 15 with not enough LFS knowledge and experience. Setup can be made so tires won't stick out. Even now with 36 degrees if someone makes LFS setup unrealistically low, tires do stick out, but I don't see any physics taking care of it right now? Allowing 45 degrees is just a variable change and it will only affect experience in LFS when drifting. Another thing, read my post above carefully once again.
And yes ofcourse 65 would be nice, but 45 is a good compromise. It worked fine in the old times and it should work fine now.
Maybe there was some 'hack' or 'exploit' that was being used with 45° (I dunno, maybe), which is why it was changed to reduce the ability of said possible exploit...
I don't know.
The trouble with allowed 45° is that it gives all the (altered) cars the ability to get further out of shape before spinning (in race and drift situations). This wouldn't be right in my opinion. Whilst in 90% of cases we'd never notice the extra lock, the occasional person (me, judging by my attempts on CTRA1 last night) would benefit from having an extra ~11° of lock to get him out of trouble. And that would be an extra 11° of UNREALISTIC lock (in a race situtation, as racers wouldn't fit lock increasers - I'm not saying it's unrealistic in every case)... So, if there could be a way of only enabling 45° lock in drifting mode (perhaps a D1 tyre, which is somehow crap in races or something).
In this regard I have nothing against the drifting scene, but I wouldn't want to give crap racers a 'get out of jail free' card at the same time.
Tristan - "D1" tyre couldn't be shitty. True is in real life those who have money and well prepared cars (with power, 300hp +, 400hp + etc) use semi-slicks.
Perhaps it could be a server option? 36 degree or more etc.
Also Tristan, if someone needs additional 11 degrees to get out of spin it means the person is not a skilled racer at all Therfor someone, who is trying not to spin somewhere in the back, fighting to finnish a single lap etc.
Unless you mean people who would make unrealistic save with just little turn of mouse or a steering wheel that has 200 degrees, but it's already unrealistic right now with 36 degrees - "Binary steering, 0-1".
As we can see Scawen reduced the steering lock, because he thought it's unrealistic setup option. So I guess all is left is - stop discussing here. Make a proper petition to Scawen, show examples with real life stock cars that have more than 36 degrees. Also tuned drift cars that have lots of lock(Making steering lock bigger isn't something hard, it only gets challenging when reaching veeery high locks I think, also depends a lot on a car).
I only joined this discussion again, because during this summer and fall I've experienced drifting a lot in 1st person. Being to many real life drift events(On tracks like Nuerburgring or Hockenheim), having co-drives in proffesional drift cars. Also drifted myself on local trainings and were very impressed how close to real life lfs drifting is(And how lfs helped me to start drifting straight away). Also had a proffesional drifter buy g25 and being impressed how impressed he is with physics...
It makes me believe LFS can simulate motorsport I love, which is drifting. Maybe Scawen doesn't realise how close he made it to real life in this aspect. Maybe someone has to show him some proper facts and proofs. Or make a drift day for him, providing him a drift car to test it himself.
Send him an email from you personally (and embellish it with photos, videos, technical stuff etc), and see what happens. You are right though - needing that extra 11° probably means that you won't be very competitive anyway...
If LFS wasn`t driftable at all, I wouldn`t even play this game. If I want to race, I have better games (sorry) for racing needs, Gran Turismo for example. I like GT for racing more than LFS becouse of the possibility to modify the performance of the vehicles.
And if I would get S2 license now, I would probably be hyped up by the other cars for only like two weeks, like in GT3 and 4.
When I got GT4, I raced alot in it, now when I have only 20 percents completed, and I have the R32 GT-R N1, I don`t even like playing it anymore to get other cars. I have what I want and what I like.
I have GT series games for racing, and LFS for drifting. So I would class myself as the one who buys S2 license only becouse of driftability.
[ot] I made a Drifting Addiction Test at LFS Finland, and it said: Hopeless. Kill your self for good.
So you are saying that trying to get better lap times is pointless?
Honestly, the selfishnes of some people in this thread is on an unbelievable level. The only reason I can see for the 45 argument is this thread is "Yes, because drifters would use it to go sideways on a straight".
Besides if you want to add really realistic setups (for the street cars) to the game, you would need to put in much more variety. There are only 4 tire manufacturers and only 4 tread patterns and only one wheel. So no chance to select different profile tyres. No chance to select different suspension manufacturers, neither for dampers nor for springs. The list goes on and on.
Before this thread I was always wondering why racers don't like drifters. Thank you for providing the reason.
To be fair, Kamkor isn't one of the annoying modern drifters that cause the bad rep, but a reasoned and sensible person who gives the drifters a good name. I am happy to be e-friends with him.
Surely the second argument FOR 45° (going sidewalls on straights) is a damn sight better than the for NOT having it (drifters would use it).
And I think he meant drift racing (i.e. going for fastest lap time, whilst drifting, which means tiny drifts) is a bit pointless, not minimising lap times generally.
Has no one ever seen that Scawen acknowledges drifters and gives them their own little mark? On LFSWorld you can set your favourite race style to Race, Drift or Drag IIRC. This means Scawen doesn't matter what you do with the product, as long as its not hacking or stealing things...Etc.
So stop trying to make the message that LFS is strictly for racing only, because its not. Did you make the game? Did you decide what its for?
Didn't think so.
IMHO the bets solution would be to allow a larger drift lock, but make it a server setting. That way, the race servers can stay like they are and the dorifto zervaz can go for the high lock setting.
In fact, I think every single setting in the setup menu should be restrictable by the server...
Unfortunately the car would take much more of the dev's time than a simple lock add.
Or maybe not...
Take the XRT. Add the rear wing from the XRR but lock it in the 30 degree position. Add a huge tail pipe. And TADAH!!! You have the car for teh 1337 dr1f70rz!!!1!oneone elevenz!1!
PS. Didn't mean the single "you" but the plural "you" in my previous post.
March Hare : About drift racing you mentioned and minimising laptimes: Tristan said:
And ofcourse this is what I've meant. If someone wants to minimise drift to get a better laptime it means it's time to stop drifting and "grip" to go the fastest way. But if someone wants to do it that way - I don't mind. I just don't like the fact that someone uses it as an arguement against 45 degrees. As - "race drifters" use little lock(because of little angles), so "show drifters"(as normal drifters) don't need 45.
Thanks for your support tristancliffe.
BlakjeKaas: 45 degrees is not unrealistic. There are many examples in this thread. If you were at least a bit into real life drifting you would understand this. If you want to believe false facts, I will not stop you.
Moreover,
No. Because those who would know how use it properly would be doing more fun and exciting drifting, by maximizing angles and doing very agressive transitions from drift to drift more freely.
Eh.. I won't even comment this.
Woz: Drift car would be nice, but to be honest there is no need. At the moment camber settings can be changed, toe in/toe out can be changed, diffs can be adjusted, suspension can be adjusted, gears can be adjusted, tire pressure can be adjusted. That's all a drift car needs(except for more power and with that some semi-slicks like Toyo R888). So in short, anything that is RWD and is driftable is a drift car. Setup options(like more steering lock) can just make it a better drift car.
I would hovewer love some new RWD car that has more power and a good weight balance at the same time. And I think racers wouldn't mind such rwd car to race with as well, would they? A rotary engine rwd car would be sweet too(something like rx-7).
To all about 45 degrees as a server option. Well I think it's not necessary after all. As I said earlier, someone needing 45 degrees to save spins etc. in a race, isn't a person that is a fast racer. To be the fastest you have to correct as little as possible. Be smooth. But you guys know that.
Good point.
Anyway, I think I've came to a conclusion that I'm persuading wrong person/wrong group of people. I should be persuading Scawen about it, not the lfsforum community.
Will do what Tristan said earlier with a group of mature drifters - gather information, examples etc. and will contact Scawen about this.
I don't get how some people reject simple modifications. How will it make things worse for you? It won't, all it will do is make it better for other people; Negative sods.
Kamkor - Let us know how you get on, will be interesting to hear.
mcintyrej: Will take some time to write it properly etc. But when I have some news about this case, I will be sure to post them here. Thank you for your support.
BlakjeKaas: Do you realise that all LFS settings in default aren't set to max? rear susp stiffness is 45 kN/m and not 170 etc. You hate a thing you don't even know(as you said in previous post). Maybe it has something to do with your age? Rebelious just to be rebelious?
*Just for info*
I guess it's pretty reasonable to say the XRT, which is probably the car that most of you would choose as candidate for 45° steering lock, is based on the Mitsubishi Starion.
Doing a quick Google search I came up with these facts:
Mitsubishi Starion
Minimum turn radius: 4.8m
Track width (front): 1465mm
Wheel base: 2435mm
I also found a not perfect but reasonably accurate formula for calculating turn radius based on the available steer lock, which is:
(track_width/2) + (wheel_base/sin(steer_lock)) = turn_radius
Now putting all this together, we can see which steer lock would be more realistic:
45°: (1465/2) + (2435/sin(45)) = 4176.11 = 4.18m turn radius
36°: (1465/2) + (2435/sin(36)) = 4875.17 = 4.88m turn radius
36 as default value for GTT with possibility of 45 max? Just like any other option that is adjustable in lfs? Why is adjusting steering lock unrealistic, but other values not?
You're very ignorant. The cars we drive in LFS are not stock cars. The cars are heavily modified. We here call those modifications "setups" and they allow us to make the car what we want it to be. Which cars do you drive? I'm willing to bet its geared in a way no stock transmission is. I'll bet the suspension could not easily be replicated on a real car with aftermarket parts. If you are all about stock cars with no modification, use [hard track] (its one of the "setups" I talked about earlier)
I'm for 45 degree lock as a server option.
Therfor someone, who is trying not to spin somewhere in the back, fighting to finnish a single lap etc. 