I agree that the lack of REAL damage modeling is the main factor, ruining gameplay and immersion, but as current damage is just a placeholder(I hope so :schwitz, I also would guess we'll have to wait for S3 to get updates in this area...

What else can/should be done now, are further physics improvements - more complex aerodynamics (body+undertray downforce on race cars and lift on road cars). That and some tyre physics changes (longitudinal grip) will hopefully make LFS driving experience more challenging, rewarding and realistic - high speed slides must be much harder to catch than now, when you can never "completely lose control", and drifting must require way more skill and throttle control than current "flick&slide" affair...

That's of course my own opinion

Scawen said there were "physics" updates. He didn't limit them to just the things he mentioned. I expect (guessing here) that there will be some tire physics updates and other things. We will know soon enough.

Quote from joen :

Physics related aspects of LFS are expected to be completed with S2 final. S3's focus would be on looks and big new gameplay features like weather conditions. It's not a strict roadmap, but that's what vaguely can be concluded from dev statements in the past.

I wouldn't read that much into the development process. No physics model can be perfect and there'll always be improvement possible. For starters all real time racing simulations currently available are based on a rigid body physics model, and we all know that there is no such thing as a rigid body. Rigs of Rods shows us that an attempt at proper stress modeling, for a handful of cars, at a fidelity far less than would be needed for LFS, without much in the way of other intensive physics calculations can grind the fastest computers currently around into frame rates that would be far less than desired for racing leaves a huge amount of possible physics work on next gen hardware.

...and if that's not enough you can simulate everything as a stressed object

I realize LFS physics won't be perfect as in real life when S2 is completed, I didn't mean it that strictly. Sure, physics development will continue after S2. What I meant is that the focus in S2 is on the physics and less on other aspects. I think those other aspects will be getting more attention after S2. I think Scawen has some level of quality in mind as far as physics are concerned before he starts work on other things.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

What happens to people who accidentally swallow The Little Book of Calm.

Black Books, legendary series, but it didn't quite... catch on..

My thoughts cockpits are mostly textures so can be done compatible.

Quote from SpikeyMarcoD :

My thoughts cockpits are mostly textures so can be done compatible.

The current-state cockpits need a bit more than that if you ask me. Plus, the GTRs need separate interiors from their road car counterparts.

Isn't it time "Scawen." posted up with a fake link to the new patch?

Since SO and BL have been 'reworked' will this mean any layouts on those tracks will now be incompatible altogether or will it just be a case of re-aligning (sp?) a few objects.

I'm not sure if you guys recall my article from AutoSimSport a few months back, but in that article Scawen mentioned changes coming for Westhill as well.

I wonder if those will also be included.

Yup, they're in!

A betatester told me Westhill now as lava pits that you can only overcome by hitting the speed booster and jump line just right.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

I'm not sure if you guys recall my article from AutoSimSport a few months back, but in that article Scawen mentioned changes coming for Westhill as well.

I wonder if those will also be included.

Which issue?

EDIT : Found it, if someone has it PM me as i'm getting extremely slow dl speeds ...

Probably everything's being worked on at different intensities. I'm also wondering about Westhill, as it wasn't mentioned in the video.

I rather wait longer to have a finished patch, than rough meat.

All this talk about getting this or that in S3 is goofy. By then PC technology would have advanced by alot and any other dev team with more than 3 people can easily churn out something that can beat LFS hands down. This is what the devs should take into consideration. The reason we dont have the most advanced or realistic physics now has a lot to do with what the PC's on our desks can handle. As technology advances, those limitations will be gone and finding a closer simulation outside of LFS S3 is very very possible and certainly guaranteed. So if you ask me, LFS needs to step it up.

I'm not so sure about that - the devil is in the detail, and the detail tends to get missed in big projects, as deadlines, previews, bling (not just graphical), and above all commercialism get in the way. Big projects want big returns, and big returns are only guaranteed with a big market. I don't think there is a big market for a properly realistic driving simulator at the moment. And as PCs get better, who is to say that LFS won't expand to fill their capabilities. Right now a three man team beats, hands down, much bigger teams - why should faster PCs change that really?

Your entitled to your opinion, but I totally disagree with it.

Quote from joeynuggetz :

All this talk about getting this or that in S3 is goofy. By then PC technology would have advanced by alot and any other dev team with more than 3 people can easily churn out something that can beat LFS hands down. This is what the devs should take into consideration. The reason we dont have the most advanced or realistic physics now has a lot to do with what the PC's on our desks can handle. As technology advances, those limitations will be gone and finding a closer simulation outside of LFS S3 is very very possible and certainly guaranteed. So if you ask me, LFS needs to step it up.

Why do other Developers need to wait for 'more powerful PCs' before they step up and boot LFS from it's pedestal?

The key to LFS's success is that development is ongoing. This is a feature that larger development houses will never offer. They will always move on to the next project. That's why LFS is at the top of the pile and will remain there. It has nothing to do with the power of home PCs.

Quote from joeynuggetz :

All this talk about getting this or that in S3 is goofy. By then PC technology would have advanced by alot and any other dev team with more than 3 people can easily churn out something that can beat LFS hands down. This is what the devs should take into consideration. The reason we dont have the most advanced or realistic physics now has a lot to do with what the PC's on our desks can handle. As technology advances, those limitations will be gone and finding a closer simulation outside of LFS S3 is very very possible and certainly guaranteed. So if you ask me, LFS needs to step it up.

I wouldn't have said so given that LFS's main competitor is still using look up tables with no quantum leap in physics in the best part of a decade, wouldn't be too bad if the numbers that were plumbed in weren't pulled out of a hat. Of course there are other competitors but one has a developer whose ignored the fact his product is fundamentally flawed and is now adding bikes and football into a racing sim that is full of flaws. Not forgetting the developer who has a past record of producing the holy grail of racing sims but spent the last five years shooting itself in the foot suing everything that moves and producing one video. Whilst it's got potential I think the DR beta transmission model needs a bit of refinement (at the moment you can drive around in neutral).

On a serious note I don't think the lack of a true competitor is down to hardware performance, well we don't really know how much power iRacing needs but apart from that ISI and nK are graphics/silly bugs limited.

It's funny how some people on the boards are talking about how LFS needs to make bigger steps because the competition will beat them, and in the future PC's will be faster, more will be possible, etc.
The fact is that people have been saying this for years, yet noone or nothing has delivered. Drivers Republic: canned. nKPro: no explanation needed. rFactor: still crap, outdated technology. I don't see a big change in that in the upcoming years.

yeah, lfs is going to be top dog for a while... unless that ferrari project somehow doesnt turn out be another gtr2 mod.

Quote from Gabkicks :

yeah, lfs is going to be top dog for a while... unless that ferrari project somehow doesnt turn out be another gtr2 mod.

ferrari project?

Ferrari Project, an ISI division made game, wich looks really neat in pics, but I belive it'll be as all ISI games good graphics, a lot of publicity (not yet though), and it's been published, wich is a clue that they want ppl to buy it! As all ISI games... pretty popsim

Quote from joeynuggetz :

All this talk about getting this or that in S3 is goofy. By then PC technology would have advanced by alot and any other dev team with more than 3 people can easily churn out something that can beat LFS hands down. This is what the devs should take into consideration. The reason we dont have the most advanced or realistic physics now has a lot to do with what the PC's on our desks can handle. As technology advances, those limitations will be gone and finding a closer simulation outside of LFS S3 is very very possible and certainly guaranteed. So if you ask me, LFS needs to step it up.

You seem to forget the big amount of skill, the Lfs devs builds up, if we say your story is the rigth one
All that experience is not wasted and, can not be instantly accesible to the big teams out there. They have to carefully test, test and test again, to reach Scaviers level of experience

We, the community, is a big part of it all. We test the product every day, and send reports to the devs, if something`s not rigth

This makes up a hell lot of data`s, experience, and knowledge, which no man just can copy, even if he had thousands of the best programmers, out there

Quote from Racer556 :

Ferrari Project, an ISI division made game, wich looks really neat in pics, but I belive it'll be as all ISI games good graphics, a lot of publicity (not yet though), and it's been published, wich is a clue that they want ppl to buy it! As all ISI games... pretty popsim

one of the physics programmers is Eero, though.

Quote from Gabkicks :

one of the physics programmers is Eero, though.

But one question still remains... If you were doing a game associated with the name Ferrari ( that by itself could sell thousands of copies), what would you do? Make it so real, that at least half the people that would try it, would realize that, just like in real life, they can´t drive a Ferrari, or make in a way that they would buy the game to keep on dreaming that, if they had the money, they could buy a Ferrari and drive it really fast?
Not an easy choice to make, if you ask me...