Damn you flymike91!!!

Maybe they shoud have their lock...

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

Realism.

If you can show me a car which looks like one we have in LFS which has 45° steering lock without modification, then I think it's ok.

If you can't show me a car which looks like one we have in LFS which has 45° steering lock without modification, then I don't like it.

With that logic in reverse, YOU should be able to find "a car which looks like one in LFS without modification" using these values: steering lock of 9 degrees, brake balance of 5% in the front and does 43 kmh at 9.000 rpm on top gear. :uglyhamme

Also, the car has have identical suspension to this:

Am I saying I like these really unrealistic setups?

Why aren't we able to setup empty tires or no tires at all?
Why can't we let the car drive 1 km/h on top gear..?

Anyways, 45° maybe isn't that bad at all, let's see what happens if we get it.

Lets see how many signs this!

+1





BlakjeKaas Got pwnt

-1 for 45 degrees +1 for realistic lock

i'm with flymike on this one. The cars only appear stock but due to the huge variations in setups possible (ummm, i want final gear to 3.401 instead of 3.4...) there is no reason why this couldn't be a simple addition to a patch in the future. Heck, since hypothetically the patch would be adding lock and changing server options it SHOULD be compatible with current (or soon to come) patches.

I think that LFS is first and foremost a racing simulator but Scawen himself said he wants to simulate as many types of vehicles as possible and the LFS engine makes things other than racing possible and quite fun

Stop being the hard-headed racing nazi's and let other's have thier (apparently unrealistic:rolleyes fun

/:soapbox:

Quote from psdf :

My point was that it's pretty absurd to say "45 degrees is not realistic and you can't find it in production cars" when at the same time you can do all kinds of extreme settings for the XRT. I dare you to find me a production car which has the same modifiability as the XRT, stock.



Don't put words into my mouth. Exactly where did I say its "sooooooooooo hard to drift without 45deg lock"? In the last ~10 months since I purchased LFS, I've clocked 38 943 km of which about 95% on drift servers. I'm just trying to get a little change made which would make drifting even more interesting. After watching Drift Bible, I suggest you watch an actual D1 GP competition.



Again, I never asked for more power, just more steering lock. Sure, a drift doesn't necessarily need "bags of power" but if you want serious angle, smoke and speed, power and extreme settings are needed.

Personaly, I love EVERYTHING to do with cars, autocross, rally, formula, tin top, LX cars, FR cars, FF cars, clow car,s fast cars, ugly cars, gorgeous cars, DRIFTING, Ferrari, Moskvitch, volvo, Honda, expensive, cheap, old new... I think you get the point!

However, some people are not like that, and this is likely a conspiracy to cut down on drifting and make more racing in the game.

Which brings me to another issue: rather than bitching about drifters, go bitch about the 90 or so "cruise" servers which are a waste of LFS. There, I said it!

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

No...

Because then It may be an advantage for racers who have 45 degrees...

So everyone takes 45 degrees, and then it's no sim... (that's not what I paid for)

as in: I did not pay for no sim...

how would that be an advantage for racing? also, most "RACE" cars also have modded steering lock in case you didn't know... lol

Mako, don't start this discussion over again please(45 lock in race situation). It's been already explained why it wouldn't be an advantage.

where did everyone who said they wanted 45 lock go? only 3 signed the petition

Busy with doing well-written material for Scawen with all the arguements for more lock, as well with examples and mechanical explanation.

Quote from Smurfen :

where did everyone who said they wanted 45 lock go? only 3 signed the petition

Did you check all the 13 pages?

Quote from Qvarnis :

Did you check all the 13 pages?

You didn't because you have no idea about the petition they are on about and it still has only 3 signatures.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Maybe there was some 'hack' or 'exploit' that was being used with 45° (I dunno, maybe), which is why it was changed to reduce the ability of said possible exploit...

I don't know.

The trouble with allowed 45° is that it gives all the (altered) cars the ability to get further out of shape before spinning (in race and drift situations). This wouldn't be right in my opinion. Whilst in 90% of cases we'd never notice the extra lock, the occasional person (me, judging by my attempts on CTRA1 last night) would benefit from having an extra ~11° of lock to get him out of trouble. And that would be an extra 11° of UNREALISTIC lock (in a race situtation, as racers wouldn't fit lock increasers - I'm not saying it's unrealistic in every case)... So, if there could be a way of only enabling 45° lock in drifting mode (perhaps a D1 tyre, which is somehow crap in races or something).

In this regard I have nothing against the drifting scene, but I wouldn't want to give crap racers a 'get out of jail free' card at the same time.

well since high slip angles (such as anythign over 20*) causes loss of momentum i dont see what your problem is.drifting ceartainly isnt the fastest way around the track, the more angle you have the slower you will be giong in comparison to a car actually cornering. and the more grip you have, the more friction you have, the more speed you lose. so if anything with your complaint of "all these squirrels gonna hang with me" shoudl be "i like this idea because the more sideways the squirrel's get the more distance i put on em"

in case you are actually a squirrel yourself, which explains why you are so close to all these supposed drivers who cant keep their car under them.

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

If you can show me a car which looks like one we have in LFS which has 45° steering lock without modification, then I think it's ok.

If you can't show me a car which looks like one we have in LFS which has 45° steering lock without modification, then I don't like it.

And I'm not really 'at least a bit into real life drifting', so I don't understand this.

are you kidding me?

show me a car i can click my mouse and change the type of limited slip differential.

show me a car that i can click my mouse and adjsut my 2 way shocks

show me a car i can click my mouse and raise/lower my car

give me a break dude. show me a non-drifter in this thread that has a fair opinion.

Quote from AndroidXP :

*Just for info*
I guess it's pretty reasonable to say the XRT, which is probably the car that most of you would choose as candidate for 45° steering lock, is based on the Mitsubishi Starion.

Doing a quick Google search I came up with these facts:
Mitsubishi Starion
Minimum turn radius: 4.8m
Track width (front): 1465mm
Wheel base: 2435mm

I also found a not perfect but reasonably accurate formula for calculating turn radius based on the available steer lock, which is:
(track_width/2) + (wheel_base/sin(steer_lock)) = turn_radius

Now putting all this together, we can see which steer lock would be more realistic:
45°: (1465/2) + (2435/sin(45)) = 4176.11 = 4.18m turn radius
36°: (1465/2) + (2435/sin(36)) = 4875.17 = 4.88m turn radius


Take that as you wish.

does it come with 2 way shocks, threaded shock bodies, adjustable sway bars, differential, tunable exhaust, and steering angle adjustment stock?

oh wait, the xrt is modified and adjustable in the game. who on EARTH would add a 10 dollar aftermarket part to increase steering angle.

http://www.splparts.com/Parts/ ... tilink/FrontMultilink.asp


*merged posts to improve e-tact, minus grammar, etc*

Mikespeed - don't undo all the hard work Kamkor has done turning this into a sensible discussion. You'll just cause everyone to hate drifters again unless you keep quiet.

Too late imho - triple posting is never a good look and always smacks of desperation.

Quote from mikespeed95 :

does it come with 2 way shocks, threaded shock bodies, adjustable sway bars, differential, tunable exhaust, and steering angle adjustment stock?

Great! So you, I, and many others agree that the setup options on road cars are far too adjustable. To be honest, I think nerfing the available settings down to more real life based adjustments would be a great step towards setup realism. Funny that you use this IMO huge flaw in LFS setups as argument for more steer lock.

He'll be really angry when I point out that shocks are called dampers, not shocks, sway bars are anti-roll bars, tunable has an e in it (if indeed tuneable is a proper word, which I suspect it isn't), and ending the sentence with the word stock didn't flow very well. Maybe if we reverse our words like the stickers on the left of his car he'll understand?

Sorry kamkor. As you can see, we all accept a reasonable argument (e.g. yours) but when someone of a different... class comes into the conversation we (I) revert to slagging off drifters. This is the main problem you have to overcome as a group. Do that, and even Scawen will add whatever lock you like.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Great! So you, I, and many others agree that the setup options on road cars are far too adjustable. To be honest, I think nerfing the available settings down to more real life based adjustments would be a great step towards setup realism. Funny that you use this IMO huge flaw in LFS setups as argument for more steer lock.

Yep. The low end cars should be far more limited in setup options.

Quote from mikespeed95 :

are you kidding me?
show me a car that i can click my mouse and adjsut my 2 way shocks

show me a car i can click my mouse and raise/lower my car

I do know a couple of BMW's which have this thing called Idrive... ;-)

Quote from AndroidXP :

Great! So you, I, and many others agree that the setup options on road cars are far too adjustable. To be honest, I think nerfing the available settings down to more real life based adjustments would be a great step towards setup realism. Funny that you use this IMO huge flaw in LFS setups as argument for more steer lock.

i was pointing out that its stupid easy to add steering angle to anything, especailly when the cars on the game already have tens of thousdands of dollars of modification and tunability already.
heres wahts required in the steering spacers
http://images.google.com/imgre ... m%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

Quote from tristancliffe :

He'll be really angry when I point out that shocks are called dampers, not shocks, sway bars are anti-roll bars, tunable has an e in it (if indeed tuneable is a proper word, which I suspect it isn't), and ending the sentence with the word stock didn't flow very well. Maybe if we reverse our words like the stickers on the left of his car he'll understand?

Sorry kamkor. As you can see, we all accept a reasonable argument (e.g. yours) but when someone of a different... class comes into the conversation we (I) revert to slagging off drifters. This is the main problem you have to overcome as a group. Do that, and even Scawen will add whatever lock you like.

Pardon me, is this a European Grammar discussion with stereotypical assumtions, or a World-wide discussion forum for a video game about simulation racing & motorsports? Either way, I'm interested in the latter.


sorry for the hostility, lack of grammar, capitalization, proofreading etc. i'm just bored on the internet, but as someone who actually works on/builds/races cars for a living for the last two years, some of the things i am reading here trying to be passed off as reality are very high up on the ignorant meter. I really wonder if some of the people in this thread chiming in with their mis-perception of cars, drifting, car setup, car modification even own a car, and if even own a open end box wrench to allowing them to change the oil, and im sure i'm not the only one who thinks that.

seriously, look at the crap being brough up in this thread just on this page;

"stock vehicles dont have any steering angle"

"show me a stock vehcile with 45* steering angle"

"bmw has idrive"

this is 14 pages of off-topic, unrelated assinine comments. it really bothers me how close minded, ignorant, and just plain stupid and stubborn people are because they dont like drifting. its about having fun, and all the steering angle would add is fun and replay value to the people who actually drift , who are getting a tad bored with it. and its really hard not to point out the sheer stupidity in some of the comments being posted in this thread.

i think this can be blamed on people for not knowing when they dont know what they're talking about, and moderators for not keeping any tabs o this thread, and some of us for staring at the screen wondering if someone seriously just said the ignorant statement trying to pass it off as fact, and hitting the reply button so other people hoping to maybe learn something about drifting dont read and absorb the rediculous "facts" being passed off in this thread.

back ON TOPIC.

this is a ten dollar modification, and since every car on LFS already has tens of thousands of dollars of modifications, with fully adjustable gearbox, rear end, tires, shocks, suspension arms, steering systems, spring rates, braking systems, EVERYTHING is adjustable. to build a real car with the adjustability in this game using a mistubishi starion (even though in reality there is no aftermarket for this car, but just for example) would cost you probably at least $20k USD on top of the car. thats the same cost as a brand new car. a ten dollar set of steering spacers that would be installed with the aftermarket heavy-duty tierods and adjustable tierod ends that would be installed on this theoretical starion featured in LFS as the xrt is totally reasonable from a realistic standpoint.

again, here is a link on how to get about 55* out of a stock 240sx steering system, using either $2 in washers, or a $10 machined out spacer.

http://www.nicoclub.com/articles.php?id=158892

here is another method, and what i did on my car. quickens steering and adds a ton of angle.

Quote from tristancliffe :

He'll be really angry when I point out that shocks are called dampers, not shocks, sway bars are anti-roll bars, tunable has an e in it (if indeed tuneable is a proper word, which I suspect it isn't), and ending the sentence with the word stock didn't flow very well. Maybe if we reverse our words like the stickers on the left of his car he'll understand?

Are you just playing dumb or are you really dumb? Haven`t you realised that he`s from US? Although you both speak English, there`s differeces in languages anyways.

And seems to me, that you don`t like those who want to have fun with their cars, drifters. So gtfo from our topic and go talk poo with all the other boring people.

Quote from Qvarnis :

Are you just playing dumb or are you really dumb? Haven`t you realised that he`s from US? Although you both speak English, there`s differeces in languages anyways.

And seems to me, that you don`t like those who want to have fun with their cars, drifters. So gtfo from our topic and go talk poo with all the other boring people.

^ Another post that makes the drift community shine in a bright light. Congratulations

Fortunately most people are able to distinguish between a community and its individuals...

Quote from mikespeed95 :

but as someone who actually works on/builds/races cars for a living for the last two years

I take your two years, and raise you eight. And add on a whole lot of working with cars before it became my job as well. And I'll add racing as a full-time hobby too.

So don't try the "I know cars cos I work near them" trick, okay?

Yes, this thread has a lot of crap in it. But it was just becoming sensible when you turned up.

Quote from Qvarnis :

Are you just playing dumb or are you really dumb? Haven`t you realised that he`s from US? Although you both speak English, there`s differeces in languages anyways.

And seems to me, that you don`t like those who want to have fun with their cars, drifters. So gtfo from our topic and go talk poo with all the other boring people.

You didn't read my posts from a few days ago did you? I have nothing against people drifting, or even against additional lock should Scawen allow it. I just have a phobia of the morons drifting attracts (generally - not point fingers at individuals).

Oh, and UK people often mistakenly call dampers shock absorbers. The thing that absorbs the shock is the spring. Dampers are dampers, and control the springs (and load). It's a pet hate of mine.