Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

After the engine stalls, why do I have to press the ignition twice for the engine to start again? I tried it many times so far, and every time I had to press it twice to start.

FIX (for scawen): Put ignition switch and starter engine on seperate keys

Quote from Blackout :

If you shut off the engine in BF1 it doesn't jump start while rolling like in all other cars. Is there a reason for this?

Sounds like a bug to me! Might be related to ignition and starter motor being on the same key.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Read the threads (and the friggin changelog) please. The setups now use the three letter prefix, so you'll have to rename "XF GTi_MySet.set" to "XFG_MySet.set" now.

All of them manually? :jawdrop:

Well, it's not all bad.. the physics are incredibly different, so probably the sets don't work anymore..

Setup prefix has changed, I am hoping the full patch will convert old setups to the new naming format.....

As for not discussing the clutch, I think it's worth discussing, as I am not sure it's that easy to overheat a clutch......

I agree with DarkElite in that engines are way too hard to stall. Also, just when it's about to stall (when rpm is around 500) you can see the gas pedal rising even though you're not pressing it. Is this a "driving assist"? Is it so the engine is harder to stall? I think it should be looked at again.

Thanks,

I see it now
I have to change all the names of all my setups..
(there are about 400 of them in my setups map) a lot of work..

Quote from HeerBommel :

Thanks,

I see it now
I have to change all the names of all my setups..
(there are about 400 of them in my setups map) a lot of work..

Google is your friend

If you put fix damage: [no]
and you blow your tires up, your tires get replaced (40 degrees) but they are not inflated (inside is black)

Quote from SFL :

FIX (for scawen): Put ignition switch and starter engine on seperate keys

No, because you don't use one key for turning the ignition on, and then another for starting the engine

In every car I've ever driven, you must turn the ignition key back at least one stage - usually all of the stages, right back to Full Off, so the car can reinitialise any electronic systems - for it to be possible to use the starter motor again. This makes two actions for for turning the engine back on after a stall, and so we must press I twice. Personally, I think it's a nice little touch of realism.

Quote from SFL {regarding BF1 jumpstarting} :

Sounds like a bug to me! Might be related to ignition and starter motor being on the same key.

No, it's more to do with the automatic clutching system in the BMW Sauber - I've realised exactly why this happens now - it seems the car's electronics will not engage the clutch (and you can't force it to do so, seeing as it's fully automatic and all we can do is disengage the clutch with a button/pedal) after the engine has stalled until it's manually restarted: hence jump starts can't be done.

Quote :

Also, just when it's about to stall (when rpm is around 500) you can see the gas pedal rising even though you're not pressing it. Is this a "driving assist"? Is it so the engine is harder to stall? I think it should be looked at again.

This looks to be modelling the ECU intervening. Having realised that you're an eejit and have left the car to stall, the ECU (on most cars) will start to open the throttle to save the car. However, it usually can't catch anywhere near as big a mistake as we can get away with at the moment so the modelling is still quite inaccurate.

But hey, we're criticising a brand-new feature pretty heavily here. It's not too shabby for saying it's only just arrived on the scene

Sam

I think the rev limiter is still not realistic, it should cut of the ignition for a moment, when the revs reach maximum. I dont know, but i think is little to easy to overheat the clutch.

sorry for my english

Does anyone else find it hard to get the car rolling from a tame 3k rpm start? It's as if the engine is very very light or has no flywheel. It's feels to me like some paperclip crankshafted engine which has no inertia or inner friction to deal with lol.
Clutch heating and stalling are not affecting my racing at all. I get a pixel or so of clutch heating for the entire race using all manual controls, but it invariably means pulling off in 1st gear at near 6-7k just to stop the engine from being utterly swamped.

It seems if you hold it at 3k rpm, you need the smallest crack of throttle opening, which when you apply the small touch of clutch causes it to swamp down massively needing more throttle. The contrast of balance between the two pedals just feels massive. Even in the road cars.
My daily driver has an extensively lightend small capacity bottom-end and fly-wheel, along with a lot of supercharger drag, and a near on/off cerrametallic 3 paddle clutch and it's nowhere NEAR as bad as LFS.

Like I said it's not affecting my race at all, it's just now that stalling is a factor, and clutch wear is a factor, it may be something to look in to as a 2.5/3k brisk pull off in even the tamest of LFS's road cars seems to be a trick of timing, rather than just being sensitive.

I found this little program (with google)

http://www.filerenamer.net/file-rename-Download.htm

for batch file renaming, i try'd this on the Formula XR and all the setup names are changed into FOX in one step...

the rev limiter is more like a racing chip rather than a fuel cutoff used in road cars. In the road cars, imo, it should hit cutoff, drop 300 rpm or so w/o ignition, then accelerate again. The rev limiter here is more like the ignition chips we use in our drag cars. They are probably what would be used in the racing cars.

The clutch seems to get pretty hot just from a normal takeoff. I was very easy on the clutch taking off, and I couldn't get a launch w/o heating the clutch. Now, I might be misinterpreting the damage meter, but any color in the clutch bar is bad right? (btw I have a g25 so I could modulate the gas and clutch like I normally would).

I think it would be cool to make it harder to launch the cars like someone suggested. It does seem like the lower horsepower cars are too hard to stall. However, with this clutch damage model I think they would fry the clutch just trying to move.

Also, I found that I could powershift, flatshift, whatever you wanna call it (clutch kick too) without penalty, or a very small one at that. I'm not sure how much it would damage the clutch, but in the future there should be some transmission damage to give a larger penalty to this.

I love the new racing line. It'll give me a lot more confidence to join servers on tracks I'm not 100% familiar with and feel like I won't be in the way

I'll probably have more soon, but this is all I have time for......finals week is approaching and I still have projects to do before I can study for them

Also, I'm really starting to feel the need for smell-o-speed where you fry your clutch and the lovely smell of burnt clutch dust comes wofting into the room

Quote from Dark Elite :

No, because you don't use one key for turning the ignition on, and then another for starting the engine

In every car I've ever driven, you must turn the ignition key back at least one stage - usually all of the stages, right back to Full Off, so the car can reinitialise any electronic systems - for it to be possible to use the starter motor again. This makes two actions for for turning the engine back on after a stall, and so we must press I twice. Personally, I think it's a nice little touch of realism.

I highly doubt that any race car uses a key and not a switch to turn ignition on/off. Maybe its realistic in uf1 but not in fbm
EDIT: Btw, none of the cars are normal road cars. They are all more or less modified. f.e. you can't change break balance on a normal road car.

Quote from Dark Elite :

No, it's more to do with the automatic clutching system in the BMW Sauber - I've realised exactly why this happens now - it seems the car's electronics will not engage the clutch (and you can't force it to do so, seeing as it's fully automatic and all we can do is disengage the clutch with a button/pedal) after the engine has stalled until it's manually restarted: hence jump starts can't be done.

If you turn the ignition off when the car is moving the clutch is still engaged for a while. If the ignition is turned back on while the engine is still turning it should start again, no?

Quote from SFL :

I highly doubt that any race car uses a key and not a switch to turn ignition on/off. Maybe its realistic in uf1 but not in fbm

True, in a race car you would most likely have a separate ignition switch - which may use a key - and then a starter button. However, this would mean having different configurations for different cars, which may get confusing. Seeing as the road car system is that with which most people are familiar, that's what we get.
There is also the point that when a race car has been stalled, you would usually have to turn the ignition off and back on again - or perhaps override some switch or another - to be able to use the starter motor again, and this would be two actions, so we might as well keep those two on the same button to simplify things (not to mention removing the need for two configurations for different cars).

Quote from SFM :

If you turn the ignition off when the car is moving the clutch is still engaged for a while. If the ignition is turned back on while the engine is still turning it should start again, no?

Yes, it should. But I doubt you can turn the ignition of a Formula One car back on again after it has been turned off, for safety reasons, and so LFS currently doesn't allow us to turn the ignition back on either, never mind try and use a non-existent starter motor.


It's certainly worth noting that the clutch pedal (I've tested it on my DFP using the brake axis as a clutch) has no free movement whatsoever, and full clutch pedal depression is right on the biting point of the clutch. This means that anything but full pedal depression is resulting in the clutch being partially engaged, and so it feels somewhat different to real driving. This, EeekiE, might be where you're finding difficulty adapting to the clutch control needed, in that there's no free play in the clutch whatsoever.

However, I do think that the clutch engages rather too quickly, and as this doesn't seem to be different between cars (the only difference is how well the engine copes with it), we have a clutch in a hot hatch that is just as twitchy as one in a stripped-out 500bhp race car. Which strikes me as odd.

Smell-o-speed is something to be considered for S3

EDIT - Actually, something that's just occured to me - to engage a gear from neutral in the BMW Sauber, you now have to depress the clutch... Is this intentional, or a quirk of the new clutch system? This wasn't the case in X10, so I'm just wondering.

Sam

Quote from Dark Elite :

There is also the point that when a race car has been stalled, you would usually have to turn the ignition off and back on again - or perhaps override some switch or another - to be able to use the starter motor again, and this would be two actions

I've never heard of the fact that ignition needs to be switched off or similar to be able to use starter engine. I have no experience of real race cars but it seems illogical! Maybe someone knows for sure?

BTW: Anyone knows why throttle is applied while engine breaking in the bf1?

One problem I've found is with the clutch overheating: (I've only tried this in BF1 though)

I get overheat-o-meter up to full red, where clutch plates should be melted, smelted and warped behond recognition. But after waiting 5 mins for the meter to show no heat (or damage, whatever it measures :shy, the clutch is perfect again

In reality, once your clutch plates are melted to that degree (or to the degree where there is no drive, anyway), once cooled, they join together, and cannot be prised apart (except with an abnormally large con-saw or angle-grinder and a free weekend :tilt.

Just my input to the situation...

EDIT: another problem, starting while in gear...When you try and start a car in 1st gear with clutch 100% in, car starts, no problems there. But if clutch is so much as 99% in, car won't start...Not very realistic IMO...

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

One problem I've found is with the clutch overheating: (I've only tried this in BF1 though)

I get overheat-o-meter up to full red, where clutch plates should be melted, smelted and warped behond recognition. But after waiting 5 mins for the meter to show no heat (or damage, whatever it measures :shy, the clutch is perfect again

In reality, once your clutch plates are melted to that degree (or to the degree where there is no drive, anyway), once cooled, they join together, and cannot be prised apart (except with an abnormally large con-saw or angle-grinder and a free weekend :tilt.

Just my input to the situation...

Clutch damage isn't added (yet)!

Quote from SFL :

Clutch damage isn't added (yet)!

It is, see changelog...
(or find out as I did, tearing up BL1 in XRT )

Not too sure if these are bugs...

1. You can change gears when the rev is on the limit(red) not requiring you to take your foot off the gas pedal.

2. You can change gears when you go over a bump also while your gas foot is down.

There is no clutch damage with the above methods.

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

It is, see changelog...
(or find out as I did, tearing up BL1 in XRT )

No, clutch heat is added, not damage. However, I think that overheated clutches already ruin your race anyway, so it's not like the missing clutch damage has a too high impact.

@spanks: regarding the clutch thingy in F9/F10 view, as long as the bar is orange everything is fine and you should have full clutch power. Once it turns red things worsen quickly and if you don't watch out your race is pretty much over by then.

Quote from abz1 :

Not too sure if these are bugs...

1. You can change gears when the rev is on the limit(red) not requiring you to take your foot off the gas pedal.

2. You can change gears when you go over a bump also while your gas foot is down.

There is no clutch damage with the above methods.

Transmission unloaded = possible to shift

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

I get overheat-o-meter up to full red, where clutch plates should be melted, smelted and warped behond recognition. But after waiting 5 mins for the meter to show no heat (or damage, whatever it measures :shy, the clutch is perfect again

Quote from AndroidXP :

No, clutch heat is added, not damage.

I wasn't too sure so I included both

But still, after that much clutch heat, if indeed clutch heat will do enough damage (I don't mean damage as in wear or slip, I mean it as a problem :tilt to a clutch to stop drive altogether, I'd highly doubt if a 5 minute cool-down would result in a perfect clutch...

Before, we couldn't go in neutral while the transmission was under load. It was realistic (at least for standard synchronized gearboxes, I think dogboxes can, not sure). But now, I can go to neutral while accelerating. (BTW, I use a H-shifter.)

Why that?

That's the only way to fix the instant-shift exploit you were able to do with H-pattern shifters.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

Also, when the car is in neutral, you still need to press the clutch to start the engine. Right now you can start it without the clutch.

I've never driven a car where you have to press the clutch pedal to turn the starter motor.

Quote from Dark Elite :

In every car I've ever driven, you must turn the ignition key back at least one stage - usually all of the stages, right back to Full Off, so the car can reinitialise any electronic systems - for it to be possible to use the starter motor again. This makes two actions for for turning the engine back on after a stall, and so we must press I twice. Personally, I think it's a nice little touch of realism.

There's no mechanical reason why a starter requires the ignition to be turned off, it's just an anti-idiot device to stop the starter motor being engaged whilst the engine is running and the only racing car I can think of with anything other than a button starter is the Porsche 956, although I've got no idea whether you had to turn the key right off to restart a 956, although I'd love to find out some day

What LFS needs is a starter button, I can't really see the point in having an ignition button anyway.

Quote from SFL :

If you turn the ignition off when the car is moving the clutch is still engaged for a while. If the ignition is turned back on while the engine is still turning it should start again, no?

I think it does, I managed to bump start it at least going down hill at Blackwood, and it must restart after a lock up.