Please report here what you find out about the GTR class balancing.
Handicaps have now been removed as the cars should be more naturally balanced now.
Changes in GTR class :
FXO GTR is 20 kg lighter
FZR has an H-pattern gerabox so slightly slower gear shifts
FZR engine is also more limited by its redline so earlier gear shifts
Not really a bug report, but a question. I was just curious why you chose to handicap parts of the cars via there gearboxes? Maybe you could have kept all the big GTR's as h-gates (which was better imo) instead of doing the seq throttle cut on the FXR and XRR.
Sorry if i may seem rude, but i miss using h-gate on the XRR and FXR
FZR was left with a H-pattern to try and balance the class. Sequential dogboxes change gears faster, and to speed up the process a bit there's an ignition cut system with them. That's different to throttle cut, the throttle plate stays open so in theory that would suit the turbocharged cars very well.
To be honest I'd rather drive an overweight (or less powerful engine) FZR with sequential gearbox (with ignition cut) than the H-gate with no extra weight. The FZR is now much trickier to drive than the other 2 GTR:s, and the reward as I see it is too low.
For endurance racing the FZR is going to be a bitch, as the other two are nearly fool-proof, when you drive normally.
I reckon fzr will be quite a bit quicker compared to xrr and fxr, if it's to run without ballast.
On certain tracks fzr hotlaps were >1-1.5s faster, and i doubt slower gearshifts will balance this out.
That combined with fzr's ability to run longer stints compared to the other two, it could turn out to be quite a dominant car.
However better wait and see some league races first.
I don't think this is necessarily true. The tires have been changed to wear out faster, so the FZR could be at a disadvantage there. Also, it still uses way more fuel. I just setup an AI race of 95 laps around Blackwood. All cars will run 2 stints, but the FXR and XRR only need 57/58% fuel for the first stint, while the FZR needs 78%. I'm not sure if the tanks on these cars are all the same size or not, but if they are that's a substantial weight penalty for the FZR. It won't make a difference on a 12 lap race, but certainly will on longer endurance races.
at half a tenth per shift (guessing), time will add up quick, plus the FZR can't run longer stints, as it burns way more fuel. so i think the balance should be fairly close now.
I agree entirely... I have to say having the FZR running a different gearbox to keep a class balanced seems to defeat the point somewhat - as it's clearly not in the same class any more. It would be interesting to have a poll and see how the numbers of people preferring weight balancing to gearbox crippling, but I'm pretty sure most people prefer the weight option.
Having an H-pattern gearbox in the FZR feels so unrealistic that I will probably resort to setting it to automatically clutch itself, which is a pity. A car like that would be extremely unlikely to use an H-pattern, and in the same class as sequential dogboxes? Much as I don't like to criticise, one must in the pursuit of perfection, and this just feels wrong.
The odds just seem stacked against the FZR now - lower rev limiter, slower gearbox, and to top it off the turbo lag in the other two is vastly reduced too.
Of course, IRL there are cars that run both - and run together.
EDIT Just for example, the C6R uses a H gate 6 speed, whereas the F430 uses a sequential. Scawen did this right, and it's also great to show off the different trans sims. He said it was balanced, and they've been testing it so give him the benefit of the doubt until you actually put in laps in both cars, and get used to having to drive the H gate like a real trans. Don't just whine because you have to drive the full manual properly now.
I always see the LFS GTRs like some sort of endurance class like the VLN. And their you will find H-pattern cars (like M3s) against sequentials (Porsche). And I think its a good way to compensate the lack of turbo lag on the FZR
Most endurance championships have a mixture of gearbox types, IIRC FIA GT currently has cars running paddle shifts, sequential and H pattern. Britcar has a variety of gearboxes and BMW won the Nurburgring 24 hours last year with an H pattern gearbox. Adding a bit of variety to the GTR class is certainly very interesting, more motivation to build myself a set of pedals as heel and toeing with my current pedals isn't really possible. Personally I'd have given the XRR the option of an H-gate as well and the FXR no ignition cut to stop FXR drivers falling asleep.
So far the gearbox just helped the XRR getting a bit closer to FZR (without all the weights) but it's still a lot faster. And the typical user wont feel a huge difference, as he just have to look for clutch heat, lift the throttle through shifting, and all is good.
hm, dont know if this is supposed to be so but: in XRR, clutcless upshifts with ignition cut work like a dream, but on downshift there is no clutch - and imo it should be, at least that's how a racing sequential works (cut on upshift, but downshifts are straight forward heel and toe). I checked the driver settings and auto clutch was on (for XRR) but on braking and downshifting the clutch wasnt coming on.. and it's really hard to blip without the clutch, i.e. if u blip a milisecond too early it doesnt even let u downshift cause ur "on throttle".
plz tell me if i'm just wrong or should the clutch be working on downshifts.
C6R is sequential, and no clutch required in dowshifting (and it's GT1 while F430 is GT2).
Few years ago GT2 class Porsches still had H-gearboxes while other cars were running sequentials. But I think you'd struggle to find a modern GT car with H-pattern in top classes like GT1/GT2. I wouldn't say VLN or FIA GT3 are top classes. Then again by looks of the GTRs in LFS, they are few years old maybe.
Sequential gearboxes have been within reach for GT teams for years yet they are still by no means the exclusive choice of transmission, a lot of it is down to personal preference nothing else. LFS may as well give a representation of the broad spread of gearbox choices available, although I think most driving enthusiasts would agree that they don't want to be racing or racing against Ferrari style paddle shift/TC/ABS computer driven cars. IRL some drivers may decide to go for a sequential 'box because they want to be competitive even if they don't find it as satisfying to drive, thankfully LFS can balance the cars in a way that would never work IRL (it has been tried) so that people can drive something substantially different but still be competitive.
