Quote from StableX :

Clutch Damage
Last but not least, I love the clutch damage but feel for endurance racing this element causes too many issues and restricts certain cars from these events. I think the ability to repair the clutch or at least to make it driveable to 'orange' after a pits visit should be made available OR clutch damage should be a serverside variable that can be turned on or off. Having this as a serverside option gives valuable feedback on what the community like and dislike and prefer for your fantastic game.

What about "Engines are no longer repaired in pit stops" -- that's got to be another thing that could hurt endurance racing?

Great car, great new track and great new features.

Not quite comfortable with the new clutch system and whilst using the keyboard for gear changes, might be brill with the wheel but it might mean a lot of keyboarders switching to auto.

Quote from StableX :

Clutch Damage
Last but not least, I love the clutch damage but feel for endurance racing this element causes too many issues and restricts certain cars from these events. I think the ability to repair the clutch or at least to make it driveable to 'orange' after a pits visit should be made available OR clutch damage should be a serverside variable that can be turned on or off. Having this as a serverside option gives valuable feedback on what the community like and dislike and prefer for your fantastic game.

Quote from ste_ :

What about "Engines are no longer repaired in pit stops" -- that's got to be another thing that could hurt endurance racing?

have you ever actually watched an endurance race ? a large part of the concept is to nurse the car home

About clutches: Overheated, then switch of your car, and wait in pits, until it has cooled down. works. Needs time (quite real ).

Quote from ste_ :

What about "Engines are no longer repaired in pit stops" -- that's got to be another thing that could hurt endurance racing?

You saw latest Top Gear? Go watch it again, then you might get the point...

"To finish first, you first have to finish." Dont destroy your engine, or do Shift-P then in the race, which will give you in a proper endurance league some good penalty (by far less than an engine exchange would take IRL).

How do i actualy instal it?

Quote from Shotglass :

which on a f3000 would likely be no more than 1000km
still not convinced and afaik f3000s didnt provide all that much in the way of on the fly redline adjustments

I'd expect with control Judd V8s F3000 had fairly low rev limiters set to increase engine life.

Quote from Shotglass :

didnt joest/audi routinely change the entire gearbox and rear axle on the r8 in about 5 minutes a few years ago ? not sure if the clutch was part of the gearbox package as well but either way once the gearbox is off changing the clutch isnt that much additional work

Changing an entire rear end is far faster than working on parts individually, but it's not allowed to change the whole rear of the car in a race. The Audi LeMans cars can change everything in about 5 minutes when not racing though. Trying to replace a clutch, especially one that's integral to the gearbox is not a 5 minute job, and assuming that most series where you'd possibly be considering major work will have rules to try and keep costs down by stopping you just slapping on an entire new rear end.

As for the rally car clutch all I can say is I think 5 minutes is a bit optimistic for a couple of adrenaline fueled non-mechanics stuck in the middle of a Welsh forest on a wet night. The LD200 gearbox is meant to be a 10 minute job to change ratios, the fastest I've ever seen is about 30 minutes by a team of professionals and the average club racer spends a good 2 hours phaffing about forgetting bits then having to start again. A professional team can change a gearbox or an entire engine far quicker than that

Quote from ajp71 :

the average club racer spends a good 2 hours phaffing about forgetting bits then having to start again.

Longer. Trust me

Quote from ajp71 :

Changing an entire rear end is far faster than working on parts individually, but it's not allowed to change the whole rear of the car in a race.

well a few years ago it was allowed to do just that in le mans so just to be sure all of the audis went to the pits at about 10am to change the entire rear end of the car ... was quite impressive to watch on tv
obviosuly though the aco just didnt think of anyone actually attempting a stunt like that and thus the rules were changed the year after

point is at least in theory its possible with a formula layout that has the whole rear end in one easily removeable package

Quote from danowat :

So you never lift your foot off the throttle to change gear IRL?

aah, c'mon. YES I do lift my foot, just as I turn my head to look left rather than push a button on my wheel.
But I NEVER pull flappy-paddles AND lift my foot off the throttle in real life.

Quote :

As for tiptronic cars, thats as maybe, but are any of the cars in LFS tiptronic?, no.

of course they're not tiptronic (at least not anymore). now they're LFS-hassle-o-tronic.

Quote :

I am glad flat-shifting has gone, it was wholey unrealistic, in a BIG way

fine with me. I just would've left the "auto throttle blip" and "auto throttle cut" in - the latter as always activated for "cheap" wheels.

Sigh..............

Quote from ajp71 :

You probably can crane your head to 90 degrees if you really wanted to in a modern single seater or in a racing seat, you'd just be greeted with a face full of impact protection material and wouldn't actually be able to see anything. I think for the purposes of LFS maybe a limit between 45 and 90 would be suitable, in a real car you can look round further by stretching but by the time your tightly strapped in and wearing a helmet you're not going to quickly be able to look 90 degrees.

The flaw in my thinking is simply that I seem to be in the minority that I think only in the road cars where everyone else immediately thinks single seater/race cars. Even with an aftermarket "racing" style seat in a road car, I would be able to turn my head at 90 degrees. Farther than 90, I can see being impossible due to the harness restraints, but 90 degrees should be possible.

Single seaters/ race cars, yes, would be different with the actual race seat rather than something like an aftermarket Recaro for your road car. I just never think single seaters since I have probably the most laps last night in FBM than I've had in SS cars since July of 2005

Quote from mrodgers :

The flaw in my thinking is simply that I seem to be in the minority that I think only in the road cars where everyone else immediately thinks single seater/race cars. Even with an aftermarket "racing" style seat in a road car, I would be able to turn my head at 90 degrees. Farther than 90, I can see being impossible due to the harness restraints, but 90 degrees should be possible.

Click both look left AND look right at the same time and BAM, magic happens and you look 90 degrees.

Quote from Vykos69 :

About clutches: Overheated, then switch of your car, and wait in pits, until it has cooled down. works. Needs time (quite real ).



You saw latest Top Gear? Go watch it again, then you might get the point...

"To finish first, you first have to finish." Dont destroy your engine, or do Shift-P then in the race, which will give you in a proper endurance league some good penalty (by far less than an engine exchange would take IRL).

Thank you, yes! Someone else gets it!

Endurance racing is more than just hotlapping for X laps or X amount of time!

And while I sympathize for the keyboarders strugling with the new patch, Don't expect the rest of us to Sacrifice the Realism of this Simulation to cater to you. Either get a wheel, or deal with it.

Scawen has done as much as he can to support those of you without the proper equipment, but maybe he cannot embrace his vision of LFS while making things easy (or just status-quo) for you.

Worst thing in this update:

Redline sound. Guys we have tuned XRG and XFG here in X30!!! Totally dislike stock car redline sounds. They are OK for GTR class cars.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Guys, there is no 45° look restriction. You have to press both look keys to look 90° now, that is all. The only thing that got removed was looking back 180° which was very unrealistic in any case.

I know that. As I explained, the problem is that what in real life is a slight movement of the head to get a peripheral view, and in old LFS was just one button click now takes twice as much work and requires one click on the opposite side you want to look, so is awkward, error prone and counter-intuitive. I'm sure that for some folks it's easy and for some others, 45º feels more real, I guess that for many racers it's irrelevant because many never use look buttons at all (at least in my experience ), but for me and plenty of others, this new feature makes virtual racing more 'dangerous' and I for one cannot see a good reason why it shouldn't be optional.

I used the look buttons as a replacement for peripheral vision, now it's too cumbersome, so watch out if you're beside me on track until we get a more flexible look system (not a threat, just a heads up) - simple as that.

Col

Quote from Shotglass :

have you ever actually watched an endurance race ? a large part of the concept is to nurse the car home

Quote from Vykos69 :

You saw latest Top Gear? Go watch it again, then you might get the point...

"To finish first, you first have to finish." Dont destroy your engine, or do Shift-P then in the race, which will give you in a proper endurance league some good penalty (by far less than an engine exchange would take IRL).

Woah there! I wasn't cussing this new feature at all. My point (which I obviously didn't make very well) was that StableX was complaining that the clutch didn't get fixed in the pits, and I was pointing out that now neither does the engine.

I've found it quite easy to keep my clutch in good condition so far, but more frequently I've screwed up my downshifting, gone down too many gears, and frazzled my engine; which, for me anyway, is more likely to impact on an endurance race than the clutch overheating. So really StableX should be complaining about this new feature too, not just the clutch thing!

Quote from danowat :

What I wanna know is what on earth res are people running that makes the speedo unreadable?, it's prefectly readable all the way down to 640x480..............

Well, I guess lowering resolution could work for me because I'm running 1600x1200 and the numbers get a bit tiny, especially in the FBM. Got to avoid pit stops then.

I found the going from 1280x1024 to 1650x1080 actually made the dials clearer......

Quote from PioneerLv :

Worst thing in this update:

Redline sound. Guys we have tuned XRG and XFG here in X30!!! Totally dislike stock car redline sounds. They are OK for GTR class cars.

agreed.. in some cars the revs "bounce" off the rev limiter, i would rather like that

Okay, I agree that maybe the 45° step in between should be an option, I just wanted to make clear that 90° viewing is still possible - from the wording it seemed that many thought it's not possible at all any more.

Quote from danowat :

What I wanna know is what on earth res are people running that makes the speedo unreadable?, it's prefectly readable all the way down to 640x480..............

The ONLY time you need a speedo in racing, it too pit, at all other times you shouldnt even look at it.

Well, it's also going to be dependent on your FOV and also the setting that controls how far back your head is from the wheel, right?

personally i love the new 45° look, that way i can zoom really near to the dashes and still watch the mirrors if i look on the side. took me some races to get used to it but after 2 crashes and 8 completed races my brain managed to sort it out. maybe its a placebo but i think you can see even more now in the mirrors because you look at them from a different angle

attached 2 pics im not sure if i managed to explain what i mean ^^

not liking the new clutch and shift thing

shame the auto-lift on upshifts couldnt be left in for those of us without clutch pedals

This might be a really stupid question, but what the hell ...

How do you turn the damage repair on and off?

Pressing F12 it just says [no] and I can't find how to change it ...

Also, there is a problem with axis detection. I have both a G25 and Logitech gamepad connected to my pc, I have to move one of the axis on the gamepad before the g25 axis works, every time I start LFS. Strange problem ...

Quote from axus :

For those complaining about the speedo: YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW YOUR EXACT SPEED ON A TRACK. In fact, I wouldn't mind a "Hide speedometer" option. It doesn't matter. I used to use digital speedo too and the day I switched to analogue my consistency and speed improved tenfold. I wasn't looking at the speedo anymore but at the road, where I should be looking. Who cares what speed you are going (apart from in the pits, where analogue speedo is actually easier to use than digital)? If you aren't going as fast as possible, you aren't going fast enough.

For me not having a speedo is like driving blind. When I'm learning the track I try a corner at 100: safe, 105: safe, 110:grass, 107:safe. And I ALWAYS prefer digital over analogue except for the rev counter for some strange reason.


Concerning the 45 view: you can still get 90 by pressing and holding the left view button and adding the right view button and you will look left by 90. I use a mouse+keyboard so I can reach both with no problem while still pressing the gas key, but I imagine that is not an option for some wheel users.

I don't really like this change, I would prefer seperate buttons for 45 and 90 views and I never had a problem looking back. Pressing the rear view button got you the left blind spot so you can check if you can squeeze in and pressing the right view + rear view got you the back and some of the right blind spot.

But that is coming from someone who does SHIFT+F to see thru cars in front of him and goes into top view mode when in a crowded straight to see his chances.