Let's discuss this trough now and here.

I read in many topics that new test patch has this and that wrong, mostly people can't see speedo or their clutch burns.

Put your FOV to 20 degrees, then you can see speedo, that is more than you should use anyway when playing with monitor.

If clutch burns, your 1st gear is too tall or you are not driving properly, yes people don't like from changes, specially not when they have to learn or do something, but there will be more things to learn until LFS is ready, there is alpha tag for reason.

It is test patch, you test if there is some faults and report them, improvement suggestions are elsewhere.

If you insist whining on added realism and wish more arcade like big speed displays, then do it somewhere else than in bug report threads and test patch section, that will only cause lot of mess and programmers have hard time to find real bug reports from all that crap.

Then, LFS is simulator, it aims toward realism, there is other games with more arcadish approach.

Most importantly, in future whine in here, mods could you please ban everyone that posts something else to bug report threads than bug related posts, we have this whining thread for that.

Maybe there can be some answers to things that cause whining in this thread, but don't even single person start to bash anyone because he does not like from some thing or wishes nos or something like that, I think we are better than that.

Well, that is off from my chest, continue

Okay.

I prefer analogue tachs and speedos because I find them much easier to read. I don't see why it matters though. I think the people who prefer the digital guagues would do well to try adjusting to analogue because, in my opinion, they give you a much better sense of rate-of-change, scale and proportion. I also find them easier to read at a glance.

But nevertheless, since these aren't 'real' cars anyways- why does it matter? I fail to see the problem with realism, because I can still use the 'virtual' analogue gauge as if I the cars had a HUD, so I just don't get the reasoning behind the change.

I think people should be able to set it however they like provided it doesn't give an artificial advantage. I don't see how digital displays are an advantage.

Love,
Aero


ed: It's also possible that I misunderstand the entire issue, so sorry if that's the case.

Quote from JTbo :

Put your FOV to 20 degrees, then you can see speedo, that is more than you should use anyway when playing with monitor.

This makes no sense. Please to explain.

Quote from Lateralus :

This makes no sense. Please to explain.

FOV that everyone uses is more than sector monitor covers, so more image is squeezed into monitor area making things smaller than they should be, this is why numbers in analog speedo looks so small.

When using FOV angle which monitor covers from your vision area, you see numbers in correct size.

He meant that having FOV at 20 will "zoom" your view to your dashboard. But IMHO, you will see sh.t and the speedo and I´d rather see the road around me :P But still, I agree with the original poster.

I couldn´t agree more with jtbo.
People have misunderstood (or they are stupid) that the x30 IS A TEST PATCH! There should be a caution: Downloading this patch can cause stupideness and whining among the racers.
Just wait for the final release, then we know more and we can disscuss about the bugs and improvements UNDER THE RIGHT TOPIC.


That´s all folks!

Nobody should care about the speedo, oh wait, Cruisers do. In racing, you only need to know what gear you should be in, and how much revs you are using, NOT speed.

Quote from tonyonparas :

I couldn´t agree more with jtbo.
People have misunderstood (or they are stupid) that the x30 IS A TEST PATCH! There should be a caution: Downloading this patch can cause stupideness and whining among the racers.
Just wait for the final release, then we know more and we can disscuss about the bugs and improvements UNDER THE RIGHT TOPIC.


That´s all folks!

Indeed, you could notice this very good while racing online. When I got the test patch, I drove offline in the new car before going online, to see what was changed and how to drive it.
It's really irritating people come on a server, try to drive it and fail miserably and end up ruining someone else's race. And then asking questions which are being discussed right there in the thread where they got the patch from... Read what you're downloading for crying out loud!

edit: @ blueflame: couldn't agree more.. well, I could. When driving a car like the fbm, the only thing that matters to me are the shift lights. I see them in the bottom of my view, I don't care about anything else on that little screeny. But it would be nice if you don't have the steering wheel on, you get a screen box in the car, not a static one on the screen, I hate it moving about while I steer.

Well said man!

I can't see the speedo anyway at 80 degrees, even with my contacts in. Here comes lots of DT's!

Thought this would have been about the gear whine, and isn't that an old topic or has someone been sniffing old Volvo seats too much. :P

Yeah, But I can agree JTbo. On the other hand it's fun to watch people burn up their clutch and then just fly by them. Only if there was smoke or something to indicate that someone is in trouble. It shouldn't be added if it wasn't realistic of course.

Quote from JTbo :

FOV that everyone uses is more than sector monitor covers, so more image is squeezed into monitor area making things smaller than they should be, this is why numbers in analog speedo looks so small.

When using FOV angle which monitor covers from your vision area, you see numbers in correct size.

Again, this makes no sense. This sim is limited by hardware specs such as monitor size. If we were to actually put the FOV at 20 degrees, we can see the dashboard, but then we can't see anything else. Reasonable compromises have to be made in order to mitigate the limitations brought about by current hardware.

20-degree FOV is not reasonable. It's just plain silly.

Agree. Moreover, it doesn't take long to learn and adjust. Just couple of hours of driving, and you switch gears properly.

Quote from JTbo :

If clutch burns, your 1st gear is too tall or you are not driving properly

True. I also noted that 1st gear was too tall in all the best setups.

Quote from Lateralus :

Again, this makes no sense. This sim is limited by hardware specs such as monitor size. If we were to actually put the FOV at 20 degrees, we can see the dashboard, but then we can't see anything else. Reasonable compromises have to be made in order to mitigate the limitations brought about by current hardware.

20-degree FOV is not reasonable. It's just plain silly.

No it is realistic, it is your call, would you like to see road or speedo?

When driving real car and seeing car entering to road 300 meters ahead, did you see same time your speedo?

We see far more in our monitors that what we see IRL without moving head or changing where we look, if we like to simulate realism, then it is only way to accept these limitations of our hardware.

BTW, with projector setup you can easily read your speed

I guess the whiners should be reminded that LFS's slogan is "You have to do the driving." 'You' means the end user, the operator of the keyboard or mouse or wheel, and does not include the computer, AI, or whatever else. People who don't want to learn how to drive properly, or who don't want to adapt to the game as it evolves should be directed to the NFS web site, as that game never evolves and the gameplay never gets more realistic. Then they won't whine anymore.

Put some effort into learning to drive, and learning to handle the physics in the new patch, and you will have fun. Whining never gets you anywhere, and you'll be sh!t out of luck as LFS is moving forward, not backward.

:eclipseeh

i'll agree with everything said...the only thing that i find slightly annoying is the setups, but its not really worth anything more than that short part of sentence.

i love whats been done, even altho i have burnt the clutch twice...lol iv having fun learning how to properly drive on a clutch, im still not competative....and the FOV....a 2 year old could work out that you go into options menu and muck about with acouple of the settings to get it to where you can see the revs and the gear or to see the speedo...im a racer and a cruiser....

but w.t.f. ladies and gents.....w.t.f.

lol

J

I think more people are "whining" about the digital speedos then anything else. For me the removal of the digital speedo is the one and only grife with this patch (except maybe for the 45 view).

Quote from BlueFlame :

Nobody should care about the speedo, oh wait, Cruisers do. In racing, you only need to know what gear you should be in, and how much revs you are using, NOT speed.

no i use my speedo alot when racing, revs i can hear gears i can count but speed i need to read.

Quote from andybarsblade :

no i use my speedo alot when racing, revs i can hear gears i can count but speed i need to read.

Revs x Gearing = speed

Quote from JTbo :

Revs x Gearing = speed

Revs / Gearing * Radius / Slip = Speed

Quote from Bob Smith :

Revs / Gearing * Radius / Slip = Speed

Yes, that is correct and accurate way, I was just trying to be funny

I'll get my coat

I'm sorry if I'm not on the topic.

I have a hard time to reduce clutch temp (except driving in KY oval) since I'm driving with keyboard. Setting the button rate to the max possible still doesn't allow me to do the footwork at a reasonable level (throttle can't go down faster than I want). Tried with autoshift, but the downshift point is earlier compare to the other X versions. So I can't blip throttle to prevent wheel lock. Don't worry though, I'll eventually get a G25 or similar wheel (I planed to get one anyway).

There's only two problems for me:

Speedometer: at some point it's true that we don't really need one. BUT, most of the cars has no pit limiter. I'm not a fan of the analog speedo in the game since it's a little difficult to read. Although FBM has digital speedo, I can't even see how fast I'm going at all (important for pits at least).

Rev limiter: we all know most cars do have a rev limiter. It's supposed to kick in a bit after redline instead of before it.

That's about it. I know I have to somehow live with it.

I know. I just couldn't help myself though...

omg, u guys should make a book of every post about the coming patch, only the fron page has like 10 threads of it...

As long as Scawen keeps turning the difficulty-realism knob clockwise with every patch, I enjoy the post-patch whining. Makes me feel all warm inside.

Quote from JTbo :

Put your FOV to 20 degrees, then you can see speedo, that is more than you should use anyway when playing with monitor.

If clutch burns, your 1st gear is too tall or you are not driving properly, yes people don't like from changes, specially not when they have to learn or do something, but there will be more things to learn until LFS is ready, there is alpha tag for reason.

If you insist whining on added realism and wish more arcade like big speed displays, then do it somewhere else than in bug report threads and test patch section, that will only cause lot of mess and programmers have hard time to find real bug reports from all that crap.

Then, LFS is simulator, it aims toward realism, there is other games with more arcadish approach.

Most importantly, in future whine in here, mods could you please ban everyone that posts something else to bug report threads than bug related posts, we have this whining thread for that.

Well, since you are asking for an answer...

With patch Y, LFS has changed its course considerably. It has become more "hardcore". Some types of racers will be glad. But others, who have been perfectly happy with LFS so far, may not like it. Among them will be (my guess): drifters, cruisers, and folks who drive with keyboard or mouse. The test patch is the first look of things to come, and the first opportunity to ventilate an opinion.

JTbo, I have put some of your words in bold. The way they sound to me, they are a message to anyone who doesn't like the changes, and the message is: "I don't care if you don't like it. I do, so shut up". Well, that's a nice way to enter a discussion... nicely callous, I mean.

(This is a reaction that I see in many threads about the patch. I'm posting here because you created a thread especially for "whining".)

Moreover, I think you are doing the devs a disservice. If their development decisions alienate part of the current userbase from LFS, then I expect that the devs want to know why. They won't be happy if the "whiners" are silenced because they're chased away from the forum by the hardcore fans.

Had to get that off my chest.