Quote from JTbo :

Muahahha, wrong move

I can't see speedo of FBM even I wear my glasses and look very closely of screen, I can barely distinquish 7x kph from 8x kph if I look close and hard, but that is about it, so I could say I haven't looked that speedo ever

Well I don't even know how fast that thing goes! I know I did 1:16.73 on Chicane route few minutes ago and to be honest I don't even care. Because I know I was near my limits, and looking the speed in those speeds (whatever they were) doesn't help your time at all.

I still can't understand how people burn the clutch, I tired and it didn't burn!
Probably didn't try long enough though.

And yes I am using the latest test patch.

Quote from JohnPenn :

First of all I've not tried the patch yet, but regarding the loss of Digital speedo, I admit I have become addicted to it lately, using it as a benchmark or guide for lap times,I,m so glad I can now go cold turkey.

I just had my first proper go with X30, took the LX4 out for a race with some AI around the new SO config. I used to be a proper speedo addict but honestly I didn't miss the digi display at all. Actually it was quite nice to have the needle there instead - it makes the cockpit look way cooler.

For the record: I raced against 15 AI drivers, and I'm blaming low FPS because I finished 15th! God damn they got fast! I ran them again and spectated them the next race from the cockpit - watching the AI's inputs and the body language of the car it looked spookily like they were... enjoying it!
:ufo:

In an actual race, the speedometer isn't good for anything. I find it useful when I'm developing a setup though- sometimes it's helpful to have a look at your speed at the end of a long straight to gauge the effects of aero changes.

I haven't changed the way I drive at all and the clutch hasn't been a problem. I notice a lot of people talking about using a button for the clutch. While it's probably a good idea to have the clutch assigned to something, if you don't have a proper pedal wouldn't it be better to drive with autoclutch engaged? I just use the pedalset from a Logitech Wingman Formula GP (yellow). You can still find these new online for US$25. You don't really need much precision in the clutch pedal, so almost anything will do.

I like the patch so far, but I still think that the interface should largely be left up to the user. I hadn't played LFS in months, but the patch rekindled my interest and I've been enjoying myself so far. It's hard to put my finger on what exactly it is that I like about it, but I suspect the changes to engine inertia are key.

Love,
Aero

Quote from Lateralus :

Really? Here's what I see in the FBMW with FOV set at 100. Please show which parts of that image would be outside my field of vision if I were actually sitting in a real FBMW.

First off, imagine while sitting in your real life counterpart of the FBMW you are viewing straight ahead at the road! Do not turn your head and do not avert your eyes to view and read clearly the stuff listed.

I was going to list them, but here you go. I probably gave a little too much in the picture......



JTbo, I fully support you. Here is a few shots to represent somewhat what JT is saying. I run LFS in 50-60 FOV. Ignore the kid's fingerprints on the screen. Also, the 2nd picture I was taking a shot of the idiot in the truck in front of me, so the picture isn't in perfect driving position. But this shows a more correct FOV representation over all those who claim that their giant FOV numbers are correct....

PS. These pictures/screenshots I took quite a while ago, the analog speedometer is not represented here.

LFS, FOV compromised so that I can have the gauges in my view, yet still have close to a correct representation of looking straight out in front through the windshield.....



Picture from (not quite) driver's seat in my truck. Note how the view is a bit closer than would allow easily viewed gauges like the LFS shot without averting the view from the road ahead.....



Thank you, and good night.

Quote from jayhawk :

Fair point. But I tell you what, I challenge you to one week of not using the speedo at all when racing. Trust your instincts, you may be suprised....

For the record, I did 2 x 5 lap stints and got pretty same time with LX6 @BL1 than with speedo there, only thing I did miss was fuel gauge, oh yes and I have proof on tape

But turning all graphical data off, also gauges did give quite nice feeling, it felt like there was men and the car, what a wonderful feeling

Oh yes, had no trouble with clutch either during testing, not even when I did burn set of perfectly good set of tires and speedo was not visible then either.

But pit speed limit is bit hard without speedo, even in FBM I reach closer to screen to see that it is 7X and not 6X/8X which I can't separate they look too similar, naturally checking speed before entering speed limited area

edit:
mrogers, camera's FOV affects what you see in picture too

IRL we do move position where we look really quick and that gives us much larger 'screen' actually, so only solution to better realism is to have as big screen as possible, in practise that means projector setup, which one can get rather cheap, search DIY projector from youtube for example.

With monitors it is unfortainly quite huge compromise what we have to do, it is quite bit of personal preference what to set FOV, but I still feel that small screens should not be reason to put some 'helpers' in sim.

If people want to experiment with the FOV in Live For Speed, and you have a SLR type camera, a 50mm setting is as close to you can get to replicating a humans FOV.

Quote from jayhawk :

If people want to experiment with the FOV in Live For Speed, and you have a SLR type camera, a 50mm setting is as close to you can get to replicating a humans FOV.

From my driving position that gives pretty much of my 19" tft and nothing else, that does not include peripheral vision which is very important for feeling the speed :P

Quote from jayhawk :

If people want to experiment with the FOV in Live For Speed, and you have a SLR type camera, a 50mm setting is as close to you can get to replicating a humans FOV.

I don't care what the human's FOV is. My LFS settings represent the driver's point of view, where he is looking, in relation to using a computer display. You can see peripherally with your eyes at quite a large FOV. But what your eyes can focus on, without turning your view with either eye movement or head movement is represented in my above post.

You can not look out at the track, and without turning your head or averting your eyes to focus off the track and look at your gauges, mirrors, body, steering wheel, etc. Any FOV in LFS larger than close to what JTbo states is not a realistic FOV. We've hashed this for years here at the forum now.

The point is, people complain about not being able to see their mirrors. They are now complaining about not being able to read their gauges. IRL, with your point of view out on the track, you would not be able to see your mirrors or read your gauges either. You would have to move your head to do that. I give the example of how that point of view with a low FOV mimics the point of view you have while sitting in the driver's seat IRL and looking out where you should be looking, out to the road ahead.

Quote from mrodgers :

I don't care what the human's FOV is. My LFS settings represent the driver's point of view, where he is looking, in relation to using a computer display. You can see peripherally with your eyes at quite a large FOV. But what your eyes can focus on, without turning your view with either eye movement or head movement is represented in my above post.

You can not look out at the track, and without turning your head or averting your eyes to focus off the track and look at your gauges, mirrors, body, steering wheel, etc. Any FOV in LFS larger than close to what JTbo states is not a realistic FOV. We've hashed this for years here at the forum now.

The point is, people complain about not being able to see their mirrors. They are now complaining about not being able to read their gauges. IRL, with your point of view out on the track, you would not be able to see your mirrors or read your gauges either. You would have to move your head to do that. I give the example of how that point of view with a low FOV mimics the point of view you have while sitting in the driver's seat IRL and looking out where you should be looking, out to the road ahead.

I do agree with this and for example I do use silly high FOV for only favour of gameplay, not realistic at all, but seeing mirrors and getting bit feeling of speed are what have driven me to such insanity

Do you remember when at sometime of 90's 3d helmets (virtual reality stuff) did came with huge hype? Where those are currently, I would think that we would already have affordable working helmets?

Damn I would give my hud from such good resolution version that is also light and pleasant to use

Edit:
Found one pretty nice setup of VR helmet things, I believe my HUD won't cover it fully, Visette45 SXGA 3D € 8,900 OUCH

I could care less about VR goggles or headsets for racing on the PC. I want it for my RC airplane!

http://video.google.fr/videopl ... 545735215129742&hl=fr

Quote from mrodgers :

I could care less about VR goggles or headsets for racing on the PC. I want it for my RC airplane!

http://video.google.fr/videopl ... 545735215129742&hl=fr

Awesomeness

But that would be useful for racing too

With such thing there would at least be no need to ask 90 degree side views

I agree with everything in the OP except for the speedo "anti-whine", supposedly pro-realism.

Realism has already given us unrealistic tire scrub sounds to make up for the lack of a seat of the pants feeling of the tires' limit behavior. There are probably other instances of gamey choices made as crutches for a more realistic overall sum.
The speedometer should be treated the same way. You don't have to squint and crane your neck a whole foot forward to read the speedometer in any car other than some crappy econobox (and even those tend to have playskool-ish speedo labels), or those esotericaly designed mid-20th century american speedos (e.g. the horizontal ones with extremely verticaly-elongated label fonts).

The speedometer should be legible. It should WORK. As it is, it doesn't work for some people (in my case, I can't read it at all unless I nearly put my nose on the monitor). It's not a major problem, because you don't really need to know what speed you're going, when you're racing.
But if it's there, it might as well work. We don't need to know the speed precisely to a decimal, just have some working estimate such as a speedometer is supposed to provide - and in its present form, the one in LFS can sometimes not satisfy that criteria.
In its present form, the legibility of the speedometer (in KPH at least, haven't looked at MPH) is not analogous to its real life counterpart.

So a very simple solution would be to reduce the number of speed labels (IIRC it's now one label every 20kph), and proportionaly increase the font size of said labels (e.g. every 40kph with double the font size), or a similar scheme.

[/hair splitting whine]

I think that with the new cockpits we are getting better reading on the dials and Scawen is preparing us for that with removing the digital one..
I would rather look at the analog masterpiece of Eric's work than to look at those calculator digital numbers..

Quote from Breizh :

The speedometer should be legible.

Well if your willing to sacrifice some realism for legibility then just set to virtual dials you can see clearly then

On that same logic, let's turn down the unrealistic tire scrub sounds too. They're a lot more unrealistic than having some slightly larger speedometer font size.

In my oppinion LFS has reached a great stage.
Now it`s truelly a simulator, but still it ain`t too hard. I think it has reached both fun and sim factor, and puted it togheter, it`s great and no other games offers that kind of game experience as I get with LFS at the moment.

I don't understand the people who whine about breaking the pit limit because they can't see the speedo.

You can easily determine your speed by your gear and the rpm. Even in the new patch.

EDIT:
In my XRT set I put it in 2nd and keep it under 5k. It goes in the vicinity 75kph and that's close enough for me.

With the digital I tried to go as close to 80kph as possible but it kept penalising(sp?) me at 79kph...

Totally agree with you, even with the standar speedo on GTT you can easely see whats 80 km/h. Just stay right above 60 then, and your fine, no problem

Quote from JTbo :

No it is realistic, it is your call, would you like to see road or speedo?

Would be very useful to be able to set a button or key to focus the view on a particular aspect of the cockpit (perhaps this can be done anyway?) - then the question is irrelevant.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

....and the body language of the car it looked spookily like they were... enjoying it!

Ha ha...all this will be irrelevant when you fire up LFS and the AI says, "I don't really agree with your choice of combo, Dave. My on-board memory store is more than capable of handling all the mission requirements. Take a stress pill and remove yourself from the track, Dave. I wouldn't want anything to happen to you, Dave."

Quote from mrodgers :

But this shows a more correct FOV representation over all those who claim that their giant FOV numbers are correct....

I like your comparisons even though they only show me what your camera sees and not what your eyes see. It is not a matter of what is correct, but what is useful.

The FOV question is very subjective, I agree. I like a low FOV because I tend to drive to the distance, as I do in a real car. A low FOV allows me to see the up-coming corner more as I would do if I were driving my car. However, the compromise for being able to see the road ahead in the way that I like is that I'm effectively driving a car while staring down a cardboard tube, with all the advantages of peripheral vision that cardboard tubes do NOT afford you.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

I think that with the new cockpits we are getting better reading on the dials and Scawen is preparing us for that with removing the digital one..
I would rather look at the analog masterpiece of Eric's work than to look at those calculator digital numbers..

Hope so, since i can't see anything with the actual speedo in TBO class for example, and not just me i think, i guess that everyone has the same problem(90FOV)... AND YES! a good visible speedo is necesary, for the pitlanes where you cant go blind on what speed are you doing since is limited, and these cars don't have speed limiter. Well... you can try to remember where the uber-little "80"(kp/h) is to navigate good trough the pitlane, but that's just ridiculous

The pitlane limited speed was the only thing making me to use the digital speedo, because i don't use it for any other purpose :Pç
PD: possible solutions are a better speedo. Get back the option to make it digital or make a funny function button to make a zoom at the speedo :P

why do people whine about not being able to see the speedo anyway? You can just set to Virtual gauges am i right?

One more thing: how is it possible you bunch have whined 3 pages (and 100s more in other threads) over one night?

1.-not whinning.(maybe the wrong topic then :P)
2.-Even the digital speedo is more realistic than the virtual ones... so useless...
3.-I'm saying that is a problem for the pitlanes, is a bit dumb have to "remember" where the needle has to be to know when you are doing 80

that's all