It is so big thing to me that i hardly want to believe it. The feature i propably loved most in the game, and a feature i have missed in so many sims has been ruined. Yes, the look key system. It was amazingly easy to check around the car, this helps a great deal in racing as safe as possible.. Why not give an option? I mean.. why? Because few purists want to look into side mirror? Just please give us an option, it means a lot, and surely giving an option wont take away from anyone.

Quote from Linsen :

Unless, of course, the FBM feels perfectly fine for you, which I seriously doubt. But if it does, you might just as well pretend the road cars to use the same sequential gear box as the FBM, as you could pretend the road cars to use some kind of tiptronic (which they don't).

it does feel fine. apart from the fact that I won't be driving it that much anyway, from a standard wheel point of view the FBM shift-model is a practicable adaption.
you noticed that the h-shift-model is not the same, didn't you?

Quote from ajp71 :

Given that logic we should ban all keyboards, mice, joysticks and combined axis wheels. The road cars in LFS have a 3 pedal H-gate layout, LFS makes certain compensations to help make it drivable without too much hardware. You simply bark at it when you fancy changing gear and LFS will do the clutch and shift for you, likewise in a sequential the computer will feel for the right point to shift for you. Having a throttle and brake are prerequisites to being able to drive any car so there's an expectation that you have to provide those inputs and there is no reason why you should have an aid for them.

ok, I get your point. YOU prefer a half decent modelling which is neither fish nor flesh but really somewhere in between over a "complete software gear-change" which embodies perfectly a RL tiptronic.

now if that's not personal taste...

Quote :

If you really can't cope with manually blipping then you can give up any aspirations to drive anything but some modern GT cars, most cars with a sequential gearbox do not have an automatic blip because before it's a viable option you need to have a responsive digital throttle.

boy, before you make wild assumptions like that you should read my posts (i know it's a pain in the ass) or just stay quiet.
even if you started RL racing at a very tender age I most probably downshifted and blipped a couple of times more than you.
but probably for you the LFS-system doesn't feel akward because the RL way of doing it doesn't come that natural for you (wild assumption from my side).

I'm getting more and more to the conclusion that it's ONLY a matter of taste and there are no real objective reasons just as you can't objectively say if hotdogs or hamburgers taste better.

I was playing X31 earlier and stalled during a spin.. I held the clutch a little late, but still had speed.

I tried to drop the clutch in 1st going a good 8-10mph and it didn't jump start it... Whats gives???

This game is starting to go to my head

Interesting, seems like bump starting isn't implemented.

It is.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Bloody big patch (in terms of LFS patches!)

800kb/s though

Cool..

5,6 MB/s here tough

I've now played the test patch for a few days and here's my thoughts:

1. Track changes - extremely well worked and adds to the experience. The kerbs did need looking at and the changes allow for a more smooth set of corners to be executed
   
2. Clutch heat - For the majority of the cars I think this really works and it's brought an excellent dimension to LFS that wasn't there before. However, I think for some cars the clutch heat is unrealistic and makes for an impossible scenario for certain classes and events. I tried running a moderate endurance race using the UFR and XFR last night of 50 laps on SO4. By the time I got to lap 12 the clutch was so hot, I cooked a full roast finishing off with jam roly poly and custard!. In my view there should be a cvar that is for server admins to use to turn this off. Endurance is a great and fun aspect of racing and using LFS, as is drifting and other things that people enjoy. With the clutch heat, most of those are ruined and that to me is unfair and not looking out for the community.
   
3. Car Class Changes - It's an evolution thing and there are bound to be changes. Again, on the whole, change is good and fun though with certain classes, I don't understand the rationale for the change and would like, if possible that you, SCAWEN, might be able to go over a couple of the reasons for this based on my examples below:
   1. TBO's - Patch X has been played a lot now and it's widely known that the in most tracks the XRT is the faster car but certainly the hardest one to master. The FXO was changed for patch X and became a much more manageable but slower car in the TBO range. Now the XRT is still hard to drive but a lot slower and from our testing, has not won a race so far where it ordinarily would. Why so drastic changes>?
      
   2. GT Classes - The FZR has now not got a sequential clutch and it really has effected the car enormously, especially on the longer races. With the XRR and the FXR now being sequential against the FZR, this gives a huge advantage on the longer races over the FZR and I can't think why this change has been made. The FXR is so much faster now in comparison to the other two. I just wondered the rationale for those changes.
4. Single Seater for Demo - A brilliant change. To me the demo of LFS is exactly what it says, it's a demo. If you like the game, help the developers by buying it which helps it growing, developing, and rewarding the people that made this fantastic software! I really don't know what the problem is for people that complain about putting a single seater in the demo instead of the XRG. If you like the XRG that much, buy the S1 license! Having a single seater in the demo allows more people to try out the game and see what they think in more car types and that is a good thing. With other sim's having a single seater capability to try, it makes sense.
   
5. Physics - I think the changes were certainly necessary and this patch is a step in the right direction. I think its a step one and needs a lot of work. Before this patch the physics were a nightmare and if you crashed in to a barrier you were more looking for judges marks for a triple salco or a face plant rather than some damage. Now, its gone the other way and its way too forgiving. I think the evolutionary step for the patch after this should be to work on the car damage so that it gets a little more damage as a result of impact. I understand that this is evolutionary and now the air time has gone, the car damage needs to be addressed commensurate with the impact.
   
   
6. Physiotherapy - I have taken the liberty of finding a link to the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy (link). After playing this new patch for a few days, my accelerator foot is knackered! I think I have to now get an ankle support from the constant barrage of foot on/foot off for gear changing. This new patch should come with a health hazard!

Overall Verdict: An excellent patch addressing many of the issues needed. Clutch heat should be a cvar for those wanting to drift or to setup longer endurance races using the classes they want. For the majority of server admins and owners, I think they'd want the clutch to heat and remain, but some wont and that should be an option. Marks: 9/10!

Quote from danowat :

Interesting, seems like bump starting isn't implemented.

Hope you were joking

Well, I was just going on what the other poster said, I haven't tried myself yet

Quote from StableX :

Huge post

A good example of how to bring across what you like and don´t like about the patch, in a constructive and civilised manner. My compliments, people should take this as an example instead of just getting angry and demanding things back/changed.

Quote from StableX :

Clutch wear - I tried running a moderate endurance race using the UFR and XFR last night of 50 laps on SO4. By the time I got to lap 12 the clutch was wrecked.

As has been pointed out before - it's not "wear", it's "heat". If it does overheat then you can let it cool off by shortchanging for a while or just going easier on the throttle.

Also, yesterday I did many laps on Fern Bay with the XFR, which is a car I don't normally drive, trying to see if I can get to like the FWDs now that the physics have changed and didn't have any problem with overheating the clutch. Perhaps your gear ratios were weird or you were too harsh with it?

EDIT: also - what joen said ^

Quote from xaotik :

As has been pointed out before - it's not "wear", it's "heat".

noted and changed - thanks

What does it means - Cars can stall ? I just can't understand. Something about turning off ignition?

Quote from Scawen :

LFS is a changing and developing sim, whose aim is to recreate the feeling of real racing. Gradually it gets better at doing that.

Just wanted to say: "Thank you" !!!

I like the way u are developing your "baby". Sure, sometimes we are all moaning because there is no visible progress. But, we now u are working behind the Scenes to get LFS more Realistic.

Hey, forget about these offending posts some users are writing here. I bet, after some more Laps even these guys will see the benefits of this Physics updates and real Redlines.

Nowhere to really post this, so this will have to do.

WE1R (not sure about non-reverse).

But, if you're in the 1st (in reverse) pit garage (spawn, or pitlaned) you cannot control your car (accellerate, brake, indicate, switch engine on/off).

I can.

For me LFS has been a very good lift away from unrealistic games such as NFS Carbon and Trackmania. It started with me getting a CRACKED version V on a LAN party from one of my friends (please forgive me :tilt

I trained a bit on my old 90 degree Logitech Wingman Formula GP that i found in the basement, but after actually four days i took 200 (norwegian money) and ordered S2.

Took it as an introduction since this is my first post

I have been playing on X for a while now and i really love it, i was using the Formula GP's F1 style gearing buttons to shift up and down, i used no form of clutch at all. Yesterday i bought a G25 to se with LFS after i heard about the avability to stall and i have now put the new patch and LFS to a really hard test.

I rigged the G25 and LFS on the living room TV and magicly managed to presuade my 89 year old (perfectly healthy and driving) grandfather into the driverseat. He had almost no computer or gaming history (cant blame him) so my mission was simple, could my grandfather drive and have fun in LFS?

I did not give him any guidance at all. He slammed it into first and....drove like in real life. Not fast but controlled, he really can drive and the way he treated the system there was no sign of realistic errors when it came to the clutch and gearing (exept for the errors others have pointed out).

Well he soon got bored and turned on the telly to watch ski jumping but boy was i proud

In other words, i love LFS.
I have sympathy for Demo racers when it comes to the XRT but i still love what you have done Scrawen

Cheers

There's no specific section to put this bug in either, so I'll put it here. It's a bit of a strange one! I find that whenever I'm driving the XR GTR (with manual clutch), and try to drive away *slowly* from a standstill, it sometimes makes some very strange "engine" noises...like synthesised "burps" that come up really loud. And then all of a sudden, it'll be fine again! It sounds to me like a glitch in the sound engine/new XR GTR sound, as it never happened with the previous version.
It's no big deal, and only happens on occasion...but it's really weird! Made me jump the first time it happened, lol. Might be difficult to replicate though; perhaps it's just my PC.

Anyhoo, as I said before...*great* work on the patch! It's a huge improvement, and I can't wait for further improvements and updates. Top job! :-)

wil this stuff effect LTC also? so it menas no more barrier troubles?

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

I can.

Try turning the engine of then and try it

Quote from TheBandit_92 :

For me LFS has been a very good lift away from unrealistic games such as NFS Carbon and Trackmania. It started with me getting a CRACKED version V on a LAN party from one of my friends (please forgive me :tilt

I trained a bit on my old 90 degree Logitech Wingman Formula GP that i found in the basement, but after actually four days i took 200 (norwegian money) and ordered S2.

Took it as an introduction since this is my first post

I have been playing on X for a while now and i really love it, i was using the Formula GP's F1 style gearing buttons to shift up and down, i used no form of clutch at all. Yesterday i bought a G25 to se with LFS after i heard about the avability to stall and i have now put the new patch and LFS to a really hard test.

I rigged the G25 and LFS on the living room TV and magicly managed to presuade my 89 year old (perfectly healthy and driving) grandfather into the driverseat. He had almost no computer or gaming history (cant blame him) so my mission was simple, could my grandfather drive and have fun in LFS?

I did not give him any guidance at all. He slammed it into first and....drove like in real life. Not fast but controlled, he really can drive and the way he treated the system there was no sign of realistic errors when it came to the clutch and gearing (exept for the errors others have pointed out).

Well he soon got bored and turned on the telly to watch ski jumping but boy was i proud

In other words, i love LFS.
I have sympathy for Demo racers when it comes to the XRT but i still love what you have done Scrawen

Cheers

Thanks for that!!! Next time someone says they can't cope with the clutch I'll tell them an 89 year old can manage it, so they should be able to too!

Glad he enjoyed it. When I was demonstrating the Cyberseat a couple of years back (was it THAT long ago!?) we had a few older guys try it, and most coped well. The worst drivers were the 15 - 35 age range - only about 5 in 500 managed to be slightly good on the first time. Girls/women - great. Young kids - mistakes early on, but never more than once. Older men - fine. Just young/middleaged guys, with one hand on the steering wheel, and showing off to their mates/wife/children.

Don't forget about that... what 8 year old?... that managed a full lap on Blackwood without going off, compared to all those wannabes who did their usual T1-plow-into-wall routine.

Quote from mcgas001 :

Try turning the engine of then and try it

I tried that, I tried making several pit stops in the box in front of the first pit stop, and I can't find the problem. It works every time.

Quote from joen :

A good example of how to bring across what you like and don´t like about the patch, in a constructive and civilised manner. My compliments, people should take this as an example instead of just getting angry and demanding things back/changed.

That is the first time "civilised" and "Andy's" name have been in the same sentence!
On a more serious note good post Muppet

Hi Racers,

I just wanted to mention another fine rename utility:

'bulk rename utlity' (freeware, english)

http://www.wintotal.de/softw/index.php?id=2806

With it's help I renamed all my 1139 setups in less than two minutes!
just go to option number (3) replace and you're done in a minute!