Well, that's not a permanent solution to the problem - a permanent solution would arise from tyre physics improvements (I'm pretty sure). I was hoping for it to be in this patch but that doesn't seem to be the case.

For the time being all we can do is form a little discussion here, sharing realistic setups with one-another so we can enjoy LFS more. Or sharing revelations with regards to what makes those horrible setups work and tips on how to arrive at a better (not necessarily faster) set from there. After all, given the current state of physics, it is a lot more challenging to put a "real" setup together rather than exploiting the physics engine.

In the mean time, I encourage everyone who's sick of locked diffs and high coast locking factors to post their favourite seupts here and maybe we can eventually have enough "good" setups to not worry about being off-pace. I've got a decent FBM setup for SO Chicane that I'm tweaking a bit and I hope to put it up later today.

I've always wanted to use viscouses or clutch pack, but no one would show me how to set it up correctly so I stuck with locked diff.

Quote from Riders Motion :

I've always wanted to use viscouses or clutch pack, but no one would show me how to set it up correctly so I stuck with locked diff.

well the OP explained it very well so turn that frown upside-down

Quote from Burnzoire :

well the OP explained it very well so turn that frown upside-down

I'm using 27% Power Lock / 29 % Coast Lock and 60mn Preload. Is this any good on XRT? I'm real sorry, I enjoyed locked diff and never tried anything else so I'm a bit idiotic to this part of a setup now...

Quote from Riders Motion :

I'm using 27% Power Lock / 29 % Coast Lock and 60mn Preload. Is this any good on XRT? I'm real sorry, I enjoyed locked diff and never tried anything else so I'm a bit idiotic to this part of a setup now...

Post the setup and I (and I'm sure some others) will give it a spin and tweak it a bit later to see if we can improve it.

Quote from axus :

Post the setup and I (and I'm sure some others) will give it a spin and tweak it a bit later to see if we can improve it.

That's if someone want to tweak a drift setup...

I'm pretty sure setted up for racing that it would still work well, but if anyone if willing to work on this setup, I'll send it by PM. I'm an egoist drifter who don't want to share his setups...

*scratch*

Thanks for the help axus.

Quote from Riders Motion :

I'm using 27% Power Lock / 29 % Coast Lock and 60mn Preload. Is this any good on XRT? I'm real sorry, I enjoyed locked diff and never tried anything else so I'm a bit idiotic to this part of a setup now...

Seriously, what answer do you expect? If it is any good can only be found out by actually driving with the setup. Don't forget you have to change the suspension quite a lot too, just taking a locked-diff setup and changing it to a clutch pack one will not make the handling better, in fact the opposite will happen. In doubt, just take the RACE_S setup as a base and go on from there. Building a setup yourself can be a daunting process, but it is the only way to find a setup that really fits you

E: Wait, you're a drifter? Who said clutch pack LSDs are better for drifting? This thread is about race setups.

the main rason to not use clutch pack is the super-oversteer it generates when you are braking. For some cars (LX, Rac, FZ50, why not FZR) you can manage to build a stable car with clutch pack, but on some other (FWD and AWD in general, and the XR's) you are getting crazy to not be able to take the corners the way you want, no matter the preload you put.

Flotch - as someone posted though around high coast locking factors, people tend to use weird suspension that results in the inside rear lifting in the corners... which results to the engine bogging down with a looser diff, and thus awkward handling. I was playing with an XRT set just yesterday and it worked fine... wasn't quite refined yet but getting there.

I really hope locked diff gets killed out also, because it has killed my driving so badly.
I use to be a crazy trailbraker, releasing the brakes pretty much after the apex in some slow corners in FWD's even !

Right now it's so bad, if I try to do something similar, I get flat spots and bad understeer into the corner and it's such a stupid oversteer out of the corners. The handling in FZR is soo bad like this. I've been driving clutch pack sets in the eTM season though, but it's not really possible to get against the locked diff guys.

Here's the promised FBM setup. I've done a 1.06.63 with it - I'm sure there's another few tenths in there though.

Hey axus, finally a good thread in this pre patch season!
I am a bit shy to share my setups due to incompetence coupled (no preload...) to my lack of LFS time (when I finally can get on LFS, I jump in a race and discard setup building), but I thought some of you may give feedback or even like this one:
XRT, originally designed for BL1 (X30).
Ignore low(ish) brake force, suited to my mouse driving.

Please feedback!
Thanks

In theory, if you have a locked diff and you take a corner, shouldn't there be some damage to some part of your car? Maybe the clutch, or the differential? If such damage is implemented in game, people will not want to use locked diff anymore, except for drag racing.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

In theory, if you have a locked diff and you take a corner, shouldn't there be some damage to some part of your car? Maybe the clutch, or the differential? If such damage is implemented in game, people will not want to use locked diff anymore, except for drag racing.

It does damage, just like your daily driving. Parts will wear out eventually, they just wear out faster when drifting or racing. I don't see any reason to penalise us locked diff users because some peoples don't like it though...

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

In theory, if you have a locked diff and you take a corner, shouldn't there be some damage to some part of your car? Maybe the clutch, or the differential? If such damage is implemented in game, people will not want to use locked diff anymore, except for drag racing.

Tires will melt and there is less grip as other side tire will always be spinning too fast or too slow, which means slippage and that means less than optimum amount of grip + lot more heat and tire wear.

It is not question of penalizing because some don't like, it is fact IRL and so it should be in LFS too if going for realism. I believe it will be, if it is not already it could be in future.

For drifting it is all different story, there I don't think there will be lot difference in tire heat or wear.

Ideally locked diffs should cause heavy strain on the suspension and tyres (or other affected parts), maybe even risk an broken axle due to the large amount of stress. There's a reason locked diffs aren't used in real tarmac racing, and these reasons should also be valid for LFS.

Quote from Riders Motion :

It does damage, just like your daily driving. Parts will wear out eventually, they just wear out faster when drifting or racing. I don't see any reason to penalise us locked diff users because some peoples don't like it though...

What!? LFS is about portraying racing and vehicle dynamics as realistically as possible. It has nothing to do with liking or not liking locked diff users. If real racers don't use locked diffs for whatever reasons, so shouldn't LFS racers.

I too don't understand why everyone uses the locked diff, especially on the openwheelers and GTRs. Just yesterday I asked for a FBM set on a server running that car and AS North. i got one from a fast guy, but with locked diff. I started tweaking that set, changing to a viscous diff with ~14nm. After that I was overtaking like mad in the hairpines, everyone else was understeering all over the place.

And then everyone complaines about the xrt oversteering (licked diff)...at least that's what I experienced.

Quote from AndroidXP :

If real racers don't use locked diffs for whatever reasons, so shouldn't LFS racers.

Matk Donohue swore by the locked diff, even in the 917/30 (after a great deal of arguing with the porsche's designers, I'd guess), but I suppose this is something that comes down to driving style, its not something you can be authoritarian about - if you like driving with huge amounts of understeer on entry and huge amounts of oversteer on exit, then locked diffs are a perfectly valid set up option.

EDIT:
Just been thinking about this... And I'm not really that technically minded in terms of set ups ... So perhaps someone can confirm my assumption: a locked diff is going to be more favourable to a style that includes lots of late trail braking and power-on oversteer... less steering input? That said, a locked diff in LFS is ONLY unrealistic when applied to a FWD car?

i agree that nobody should be using a locked diff on tarmac, but to say that using any more than 30% coast lock in a clutch pack diff is retarded is, well, retarded!

lsd locking factors should vary depending on a number of factors, especially the weight distribution of the car and it's power output.

in my experience, rear engine cars generally need more coast lock to prevent the rear end from whipping around when trail braking, and in these cars the obvious solution to mid corner understeer is to get back on the throttle earlier.

as for power lock, cars with modest power will be able to put it down better with higher locking, but cars will enough power to spin both wheels will be easier to drive if some of the excess power is allowed to be "bled off" by using a low locking factor.

and as for preload... use just enough so that the transition between power and coast states is smooth and predictable. (i do agree that too much preload is practically the same as a locked diff).

I use locked diff. I read about these things and in my amateourish opinion locked diff should never be faster on the track, but it is. So that's why I use it. Even if I get a set from someone else and I see he uses clutch pack I just switch to locked and it works for me.


axus, I present you the setup from hell: locked diff, high camber, low tyre pressure...

Yeah but we us people that are using proper setups are probably having twice the fun and we'll be having the last laugh when the physics gets fixed. Do you play LFS to have fun in a realistic way or to show that you can be fastest in a flawed system?

when driving, the aim is to be fast. And it is the same irl! So the last laugh will certainly not be to people that preach they have the truth but cannot be fast, or at least as fast as the others . Take a look at the FWD, you can do some quick splits with a clutch pack by learning a lot how to drive this way, but when you put a locked diff., suddenly you can do as well in few minutes without having to fight with the wheel ...even if the handling is ... weird

BTW, I will try to have a look at the suspension to solve the 'problem', but I'm not too confident ...
edit : tried very soft springs for FXR and that is not too bad (not quick for the moment, but has potential )

Until the physics gets fixed I'm afraid most of us will use these unrealistic settings. If you don't, you cannot be competitive, where's the fun in that?

I just added a locked diff to the mini sim I'm making at work, although I haven't really played with it enough to see how it handles. It's also hard to judge as I don't have any tracks to go around or an LSD to compare it to (yet, locked or open for now). It does mean I can play with tyre physics and see how they affect the diff though. If I come up with anything interesting I'll let you know.