ok after a quick test with XFG @ BL2, clutch is a lot better, i only had time to do ten laps as i had to go out

with lifting on gearchange, (not for the jumps) the clutch was a little hot, but not to bad.

i need to mess with setup, as my gears ratio's will have to be reworked for new physics!

any way, a big thank you scawen for sorting that out for us, and enjoy your xmas break

i'll report back on my enduro testing after i've had time to sort out my setup

Clutch is great now with X36 (hadn't tested all the previous versions), in XFG it "grabs" a lot quicker now..
Discussing with my teammates i gotta say that they are right with one thing, and it's that XFR and UFR should really have that Ignition cut it's quite an cheap modification to the car and i think all the cars that resemble a "race" car should have that, it's 2008 and all, although i hate this new technology gimmiks bullshit, i gotta say that they are right that newer race cars almost all have an ignition cut, so if we strive for realism we should (unfortunately) have that driver assist in cars that have it in real life..

Quote from gremwood :

x36 is a good patch, but visually, the analog speed gauges are a little funny looking. For the TBO class, LX6, FZ5, the gauges just dont have enough numbers. Compared to the cars with much less power, the displays just don't look right.

Probably it could work like that:
20 - 40 - 60 - 80 - 100 -120 ...?
Would look a lot better to me at least, plus I liked the old, unreadable speedos

Quote from Bob Smith :

I'm sure Dennis mentioned somethime about axle twist due to inboard brakes on the dp1. Sadly I cannot find in emails/his site where this was mentioned, and I remember the exact figure. I remember it being higher than I thought, over 20 degrees I think (under full braking, that's 1.6gs or so).

the dp1 has unusually long halfshafts due to wide track and long suspension arms, so they tend to act a little like torsion bars

at 1.5g braking the fronts are indeed twisted 20 deg but it's only 54% yield strength. each shaft is seeing 440 lb-ft of torque at that point. like everything in engineering it's a tradeoff - the shafts are loaded but the suspension arms are not so lots of things can be lighter. and since the shafts see the same load under acceleration they already have to be this strong anyway and yes that means they twist under acceleration too, though it's the rears that do most (72%) of the work in that case.

as long as the tyres stay in contact with the pavement it's actually a bit of an anti-lock feature and works quite well in real life. simulating this accurately can be quite a trick of course.

Quote from dpcars :

simulating this accurately can be quite a trick of course.

Yup! But we have a secret weapon

Hi!
I'm at work at the moment so I have spare (CPU) time for some AI testing.
Unfortunately I can not go through the firewall and use the auto updater, and have X35 installed.
Could someone post a link to X36 please? Thank you

Scawen, are you trying as much as possible to make the clutch heating/slipping/force a function, even if descrete, of other parameters of the car? If you do, I can understand the beauty of the generality of it but I bet on real cars this value acts just as a starting point. The real parameters of the cluch are, surely, decided after test drives. If the clutch is inappropriate to the designated usage of the car, the paramaters change to make it appropriate.

On LFS' case the designated usage is racing, therefore, the clutch should be appropriate for that and not overheat under normal "trashing" of a car.

Other than that, looking forward for patch Y

Quote from scoobyrbac :

YES!!!! I hate it when I forget that its in wondowed it also disconnets me from servers sometimes when its windowed because it has to go back to full screen..

No there is a reason for it as it allows you to see the firewall windows better. Otherwise we get all those whines about not seeing any servers.

Hi. i just noticed something not sure if this is supposed to be this way but i was trying to make a burnout with the FBM car just pressing the throttle key and brake key at the same time in 1st gear and it worn my clutch out in like a few seconds completely also with handbrake same effect. i used the default raceset.

It only helps a bit if you set the brake balance all the way to the front then you can make one small burnout.

Try to hold clutch + arrow up + arrow down.. and release clutch

I assume u use keyboard, so you apply full braking power and then u wonder that u cant spinn the wheels?

yes keyboard, i havent tested the other cars yet. but in LFS X10 it was no problem to do a good burnout with keyboard.

Not sure where to put this but x35 the new Digital speedo numbers and the kph/mph are fuzzy as if out of focus yet the gear indicator is perfect.

FZR/AS3 on Conedodgers 5 incar view

Wtf, i can't download...
I'm only in X32

Quote from BIzO :

Wtf, i can't download...
I'm only in X32

The patch can only be downloaded when u are in multiplayer mode.
Just simply hit "multiplayer", and search for gamerooms. Then the game will ask u to install X35/6.

http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.p...4&d=1198005724
http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.p...5&d=1198005724

Read only? Disk space? Administrator account?

Administrator account

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Clutch is great now with X36 (hadn't tested all the previous versions), in XFG it "grabs" a lot quicker now..
Discussing with my teammates i gotta say that they are right with one thing, and it's that XFR and UFR should really have that Ignition cut it's quite an cheap modification to the car and i think all the cars that resemble a "race" car should have that, it's 2008 and all, although i hate this new technology gimmiks bullshit, i gotta say that they are right that newer race cars almost all have an ignition cut, so if we strive for realism we should (unfortunately) have that driver assist in cars that have it in real life..

Thing is, a similar car to the small FWD GTR car's IRL have h-shifting gearboxes. The small GTR's in LFS all have h-shifting gearboxes. Ignition cut systems are only applicable to sequential gearboxes.

servers down?

-up again

Quote from Mille Sabords :

Hi!
I'm at work at the moment so I have spare (CPU) time for some AI testing.
Unfortunately I can not go through the firewall and use the auto updater, and have X35 installed.
Could someone post a link to X36 please? Thank you

This is better Scawen.
As for the way you calculate the clutch strength.
It should be a combination of power and engine inertia

If we have two engines with the same power curve, the one which has more inertia doesn’t necessarily need a stronger clutch.
It all depends in the given time both engines how much energy they can store in rotational inertia.

Eg while been airborne after a bump for about half a second, at that given time in which the engines just increase revs, the one with the heavier inertia will just reach lower revs comparing with the lighter.
Unless the engine with the lighter interia hit the rev limiter and stop storing energy in rotational force, both engines are going to store the same amount of energy and the stress on the clutch will be the same when the car lands again.
If the lighter engine hit the rev limiter in that given time, the one with the heavier inertia will store more energy and stress more the clutch so in that case the “heavier” one indeed need’s a stronger clutch.

A simple example.

Let’s say that XRG’s engine inertia is able to store twice as much energy in rotational force while been at 7000rpm comparing to what the XFG can store in 7000rpm.
This doesn’t mean that the XRG needs twice the clutch strength to hold that maximum inertia force.
Because in a given short time (that half second while the car flies over those big bumps in rallyX) XRG’s engine is not that more powerful over XFG’s, to store twice the engine’s rotational inertia force.

I am saying that, because still the XRG’s clutch seems to last way longer in the same conditions comparing to XFG’s as JTbo mentioned.

Anyway I think there is not anything else you can do now, patch Y is coming soon and the clutch is much more usable now in some cars which had problems.

Just promise us that you are going to work it again in the future, with some real data because now I think it is pretty much guess work

Quote from Scawen :

Thank you very much for your stories, comments and test results!

I think you will find the new X36 an improved version. Clutch heating is back to X33 levels but six of the cars have a stronger clutch. The stronger clutch was worked out purely by engine inertia. So clutch strength is now the larger value of that required for engine torque, and that required to deal with the engine rotational inertia.

I loaded all the cars and found that these ones were changed : UF1 / XFG / XRG / LX4 / LX6 / FZ5

I did again the "High Gear Start Clutch Burnout Test" with X36 and here's the results:


Steps for the test:
1) Wait for the green lights to start the race
2) Shift-up to the highest gear without touching throttle (using autoclutch)
3) Floor down the throttle
4) Drive around the oval keeping max throttle until the clutch burns out or until it becomes stable orange

Tested all cars except MRT.

Notes:
1) All cars except UF1 and RAC reach "red heat" during the test.
2) Excluding single seaters, only UFR, XFR and FZR manage to completely burn their clutch during the test. It looks like GTR cars haven't got a clutch strong enough for this test. FXR and XRR probably save themselves as the turbo cannot give full power at low rpms and so they have a "softer" start.
3) I noticed a bug with FZ5: during the slow start the clutch "fluctuated" (instead of reducing gradually) and at the same time the throttle "flickered". While I think the clutch can behave "as it wishes" being an autoclutch, I was keeping my throttle pedal floored all the time, so I don't think the throttle power should have flickered.
I tried the FZ5 start many times and it always produced this behaviour (and it was the only car which did it).
4) Among single seaters, FOX was the only one which didn't burn its clutch.
5) BF1 was the only car which took several laps to completely burn its clutch: the clutch of all the other cars, when reaching a certain "temperature threshold" (about half the bar) would "give up" and you would see the rpms suddenly burst high as the engine is "set free" by the transmission and clutch burns out rapidily. The BF1 instead kept a balance between "slipping/transmitting the power" even at high temperatures and the clutch only slowly overheated to the full bar.

Replay of the FZ5 bug attached

In BF1 and FZ50, traction control acts like clutch slip control, it’s a known problem

I didn't have the time to extensively test the new patch, but I'm really happy about how the whole thing is evolving. Much more realistic and fun!

Thumbs up!

Haven't watched the replay, but are you sure that wasn't just Traction Control limiting engine throttle ?