hi,

as some of you may have noticed, the fastest setups around (e.g. csimpoks track record setup) have a very high front of the car.
additionally the rear spoiler on the FXR is at 1-2°.

these are two unrealistic setup options i think:

1. a front spoiler angle of 11-12° and a rear angle of 1° should lead to an uncontrollable car especially in the fast right bends.

2. the ride height does not effect the downforce.
an extreme ride height at the front should lower the downforce generated by ground effects. i can make the car as high as i want and don't lose any downforce.

any opinions or hints would be appreciated.

cya,
the hardbraker

There is an aerodynamics bug in this version of LFS, it should be fixed in the next physics patch You can notice it also in the FV8 setups for the oval.

...or pretty much in every car that has downforce..

Yes, the aero model is pretty simple and exploitable in the current version. Next time do a rudimentary search please, because this is a topic that has been talked about a lot

To the 11° front, 1° rear: That's probably because the FXR is a understeering b¡tch to begin with, and to be fast in a FWD/AWD car you need to set it up with a high oversteering tendency.

Quote from AndroidXP :

...and to be fast in a FWD/AWD car you need to set it up with a high oversteering tendency.

that is quite false (btw if you want to be fast)

Well, why that? I mean, ok for AWD cars it's a moot point (if you set the power split far enough rear you don't need a low rear wing angle), but for FWD

The only thing affected by throttle in an FWD is the amount of understeer (except for some crazy setups, but these mostly work in rallyX only), so the base needs to be oversteery. If it's already understeery, you won't get anything else than more understeer.

Well, the point of having those high nose setups is the added top speed on straights (and everywhere else). This is what helps the FXR as it is quite slow on straights.

Or higher drivetrain efficiency...

But yes, on the straight it's a big block of wimpy metal

Heh, I still remember when I used to drive the damn FXR. Sometimes I was thinking like "Oh boy, now I'm going fast" and then you hear the horn and see a flock of FZRs zooming by, coming out of nowhere Couple of times they just appeared from nowhere, on long straights you need to look more on the mirrors than cars in front...

Quote from AndroidXP :

Well, why that? I mean, ok for AWD cars it's a moot point (if you set the power split far enough rear you don't need a low rear wing angle), but for FWD

The only thing affected by throttle in an FWD is the amount of understeer (except for some crazy setups, but these mostly work in rallyX only), so the base needs to be oversteery. If it's already understeery, you won't get anything else than more understeer.

You cannot be really performant by having a big oversteer with a FWD, you simply cannot accelerate. On RWD, you can have an oversteery setup being performant, some drivers prefer to have this kind of handling to be sure they will be able to accelerate hard as quick as possible.
BTW, we are talking about LFS, so try to be quick with an oversteery setup for a FWD, and then try a good setup very stable, you will see what I mean. For the FXR, you can try it too, the best is without a doubt to be very neutral (nearly understeer) during all the corner.

I guess we have a very different understanding of "oversteery". Yours seems to be the much more extreme one

If you have a setup that oversteers even when you accellerate, then it's surely a big hunk of crap. A FWD setup must be oversteery enough to get your ass around the corner, yet the radius should be easily controllable with the throttle.


But meh, I have to admit that I almost exclusivly race RWD cars. The FXO only gets fresh air on Stunt/Rally sessions...

so if 4x4/awd (difference?) cars are that bad, why are they actually raced IRL?
the other thing that got me used to any kind of 4x4 cars is the fact that, in theory, you have better chances to get "away" cause you have 100%+ more driven tyre to pull you away...

Quote from AndroidXP :

I guess we have a very different understanding of "oversteery". Yours seems to be the much more extreme one

oversteer is oversteer . But of course, the settings for a FWD are a bit more accentuated on the oversteer to counter the understeering caused by acceleration, I fully agree on this.

Quote from micha1980de :

so if 4x4/awd (difference?) cars are that bad, why are they actually raced IRL?

They are not so much used on track racing, 'cause of the weight penalty and like the race tires are very performant now, so in general, no need to have awd. BTW, on rally stages, in general awd give much more advantages in traction.

so you could say it's like techn. evolution to car engineering?
hm, assuming it's like that.
why are still rwd or fwd cars raced?
if they are outdated?
or worse, why are they still produced to be regular cars?

Quote from hardbraker231 :

a front spoiler angle of 11-12° and a rear angle of 1° should lead to an uncontrollable car especially in the fast right bends.

You're not looking at all the facts. That totally depends on the size of the wings, their distance from the wheels, the weight distribution of the car, and the where downforce from the undertray acts.

Put all those together and you'll realise why it's necessary. The rear wing is larger than the front, so provides more downforce for the same angle. So immediately there's probably going to be a tendancy to have more angle at the front. Also the car is front heavy, and you need downforce to be proportionate to the weight distribution - again, more front AOA (angle of attack) than rear. Also I believe the undertray acts more or less 50/50 front rear, meaning the car is getting too much downforce at the rear even when both wings are removed (could we do such a thing), so again, more front wing is needed to compensate.

Ultimately you never need to use more than 6 or 7 degrees at the rear, because the front wing is limited to 15. That's why the FZR is so much quicker around courses that lack very high speed sections, since they can't take advantage of running both the front and rear wings at high angles. The car can have much more downforce than the other two GTRs.