Indeed

Quote from AndroidXP :

setting the damper from "1" to "3"

really bad idea
if were going to have arbitrary setup values that are completely devoid of any meaning we might just as well drive rfactor or gtr
so keep the proper values but restrict them if you must and put a sandbox mode in there for bob to have fun with

Well, but from my understanding on "cheap" tunable dampers (which I guess the road cars would have IRL) you don't get much more than a few arbitrary settings ranging from softer to harder. Maybe a compromise could be found and LFS would show the resulting stiffness somewhere else so that we at least know the numbers.

wouldnt the current slider with non infinitely fine adjustability achieve exactly the same while still being properly rooted in proper physics ?

In the end it's just a matter of "immersion-factor" anyway. You either implement an interface that let's you change the "real" parts or you take one that pleases the number crunchers () and imposes a certain slider accuracy (certain values within the slider).

The end result is the same, one just creates the illusion of tuning a real car a bit better.

i dunno about you but if i was working on my own car and i was in the market for a new set of dampers i wouldnt ask the sales guy for a damper that can be set to 3 ... well ok you got there i wouldnt ask someone working in sales something which vaguely sounds like math and physics either in fear that his head might explode but you get the idea

and btw im pretty sure tristan posted something about buying springs he considered for the f3 a while ago and he was able to quote N/m values for them so if you buy something suitable for track use it seems like datasheets are available for most products

Quote from Shotglass :

i dunno about you but if i was working on my own car and i was in the market for a new set of dampers i wouldnt ask the sales guy for a damper that can be set to 3 ... well ok you got there i wouldnt ask someone working in sales something which vaguely sounds like math and physics either in fear that his head might explode but you get the idea

and btw im pretty sure tristan posted something about buying springs he considered for the f3 a while ago and he was able to quote N/m values for them so if you buy something suitable for track use it seems like datasheets are available for most products

Spax adjustable dampers, 18 settings, no info what they do, no base valving, nothing.

Koni adjustable dampers, can't remember now how many settings, but no any information at all how much each is, also haven't have any success to find out base valving.

When we are talking from street cars, situation is that there is not much of data, specifically modern sport suspension kits state that it is lower and stiffer, but no any data from real values.

And I find that pretty annoying as how could I buy anything like that? Certainly I need to know specs so that I would have even vague idea of how they would work in my car.

Quote from Shotglass :

wouldnt the current slider with non infinitely fine adjustability achieve exactly the same while still being properly rooted in proper physics ?

For once we could actually take something good out of the ISI engine, setup options are defined by in .ini files by a simple system of: (minimum value, step size, number of steps)

The really important thing there is the step size has to be realistically big. I think values should be visible somewhere (maybe the suspension views page) even if the setup screen displays simple number values. Certain settings like the wing values will hopefully be less exact at some point, you'd never adjust a real GT, Formula BMW or Renault wing by 1 degree, you'd just shove a bit more on until it felt right and then mark the point on the endplate for future reference, or if you're organised you may choose to pre-drill holes in your end plate, limiting you to a maximum of probably 8 settings, over the entire range from virtually flat to just before the stall point of the wing, in other words you'd have about 3 or 4 usable values and just have to settle for that. I can imagine the crying when that kind of adjustability is imposed but I think it needs to happen if LFS is going to ever produce credible realistic setups.

Quote from ajp71 :

Certain settings like the wing values will hopefully be less exact at some point, you'd never adjust a real GT, Formula BMW or Renault wing by 1 degree, you'd just shove a bit more on until it felt right and then mark the point on the endplate for future reference

i very much doubt that ... putting 2 pieces of sheet metal shaped to snugly fit under the wing with a screw connecting both of them and a set square to measure the value after holding the "device" up to your wing cant possibly be too high tech for fia gt or formula bmw

Limiting the settings is abit iffy 'cause as been mentioned people swap parts for better tuning. You would have to take a comparison to some sort of RL racing series that uses the particular class of cars in order to limit the settings, but hte cars are not real 'ceps for the RAC, MRT, FBM, and the all mighty BF1. So those might be the only ones that could be limited.

Quote from DragonCommando :

Remove locked diffs from anything but Drag, I don't think rally cross uses locked diffs.

At least this way, it gives the demo users (myself included) just one more thing to buy the game for. (although I'm already getting it)

OMG OMG OMG!!!! Guys, lets give a handshake to this dude!!! This is like, awesome that a demoer is FINALLY getting S2, instead of bitching about shit all the time!

Hey if it's removed I'll really be wiped off from the race!!! Locked diffs are the base for every of my set. I hate Clutch Pack LSDs...

Quote from Shotglass :

i very much doubt that ... putting 2 pieces of sheet metal shaped to snugly fit under the wing with a screw connecting both of them and a set square to measure the value after holding the "device" up to your wing cant possibly be too high tech for fia gt or formula bmw

No it is

Actually they've got quite a lot of adjustment on that front wing, although I would have thought it would form an aerodynamic brick wall on that maxium setting. The rear wing, however, looks like it has about 5 settings.

The FOX should have 7 front settings and hard to tell but it looks like a couple less rear settings.

From the V8 supercars rulebook.
8.6.2 The final drive must contain a spool made of Ferrous Material and the complete rear axle assembly must not incorporate any differential action.

If this is not locking, how does it work. (No guessing please I want references)

Quote from heson :

From the V8 supercars rulebook.
8.6.2 The final drive must contain a spool made of Ferrous Material and the complete rear axle assembly must not incorporate any differential action.

If this is not locking, how does it work. (No guessing please I want references)

Obviously reading the regs for some reason they do run locked diffs. The fact that V8 Supercars are required in the rule books to run a locked diff suggests it is (or was) a cost saving measure and the teams would run an LSD if they were allowed to. I'd be very interested to find out if the one or two V8 Supercars that have emigrated and are running in national level GT championships in Europe are still running the locked diffs, I highly doubt it from what I remember the Falcon running in Britcar had an LSD put in it when it came to the UK, I thought from a locker but clearly an even more primitive solution than that.

AFAIK locked diffs are allowed in all European GT championships, the Astons and front engined Ferraris have an integral gearbox/clutch/diff mounted in the back so I hardly think they're that stringent, nobody has ever decided to use a locked diff to my knowledge. This leads me to believe that the locked diff is not a weapon of choice seeing as the only examples people can find of it are very powerful RWD cars either with a fundamental handling flaw and no opposition or regs that don't allow the conventional choice.

I'm quite sure nobody in in their senses would put a locked diff on a race car for normal track racing if a better construction was homoglated.

For V8SC its a nice cost restrictor (or just pushing the effort to the suspension setup), and I think it might give better racing for the spectators as well as sorting out the men from the boys (forcing the driver to fight understeer with oversteer(see sig)

Its a fun fun setup challenge to lock the diff and make the car drivable again (almost not possible on some cars)

I say keep it... It's something all that we could get on our car's IRL.. I really never use it unless I'm drag racing in a RWD car.. Or just messing around..

But I dont see a big reason to ditch it.. It has soo many more draw backs to using it why get rid of it if someone wants to race with it??

If this is about demo races drifting... It sucks to drift with as well.. Maybe if we had a muscle car and it had a long heavy body with alot of body roll

Quote from ajp71 :

Actually they've got quite a lot of adjustment on that front wing, although I would have thought it would form an aerodynamic brick wall on that maxium setting. The rear wing, however, looks like it has about 5 settings.

well fine but ill stick to my view that cutting a longhole in there and holding anything device capeable of measuring angles with wouldnt be much more difficult
note that the front wing also has 2 rows of holes which wither suggests that the airfoil has 2 holes for a different set of angles or that they can choose from 2 profiles ... either way theres a lot you can do to set the front downforce on that formula bmw to whatever suits you

about that locked diff in the v8 regs ... if its a cost saving measure i highly doubt that the stress on the driveshafts can be as high as everybody from the anti locked diff group claims
also keep in mind that there are a few cars that have the brakes at the diff (like that lmp type thing which i forgot the name of) and i havent heard anything which indicates that they chew though a set of driveshafts every few laps

Quote from Shotglass :

also keep in mind that there are a few cars that have the brakes at the diff (like that lmp type thing which i forgot the name of)

Inboard brakes... not too common anymore for whatever reason. The only disadvantage I've personally heard given is the problem with cooling something in the 'middle' of the car. (Other than the obvious cost angle )

As far as the topic... I of course decline to sign this pointless petition.

But the plus side is a huge reduction in unsprung weight, which was (until fairly recently) sufficient to offset any cooling issues at the design stage. It also means that the driveshafts can be smaller, as the larger braking torque doesn't need to transmit along such a long, narrow shaft.

I don't get why people would be against diff locking, solid diff is easy to code, and also with a solid axle(not suspension) you get better power transfer, it would be a pain to race an open diff;

enter a corner too fast and you lift the inside wheel thus denying acceleration to wheels.

and i would think it's not so much "removing a feature to the game" as it is putting a restriction on something already there. LSD's are advanced, but locked diffs are the original design for a drive chain, until it was proven to be an inconvenience for daily drivers, then someone invented the differential. but that's a pain to race so someone invented lsd's. closed diffs are NOT BAD!! what are you going to do in LFS, park cars???

Quote from atlantian :

I don't get why people would be against diff locking...

I believe the intention was not to remove the lock diff from the game but just restrict it for a period of time to "encourage" more setups to be designed around the other diff options. As it stands now the overwhelming majority of setups use the locked diff. It's a mute point really though as it will sort it self out eventually as LFS progresses.

No pls no. I mean, it's not maybe now realistical, but RWD car without locked diff is just horrible to drive on race and not fun in any way. Keep using locked diff and wait it get's improved. This is my opinion.

-EDIT- Or did I understand wrong? Do you wan't to ban 100% lock and keep using adjustable locks? That wouldn't be that bad, only thought 100% lock on powerful AWD car in LFS is very much fun.

He wants to ban the locked diff, not the clutch pack and viscous one

At the moment I drive FOX only, have asked a lot of fast guys for setups and none of them was with locked diff. I don't see any problem there so far.