i m glad that i m not alone...in the struggle of the Y-patch...

If you buy a car for instance a ferrari f430 or an enzo or a zonda or a porsche with F1 shifting,....there is NO clutch in the car...

de f430 shifts in 0,2 sec for you ,....no clutch necessary...
so why does a game like live for speed to let the throttle go,...?
These modern days with modern cars have shifting-systems for you...

of course when i drive my honda civic 2.2cdti Diesel yes i have to lift the throttle to shift...but thats why i play a game to have the fun and excitment i cant get i my real car

for the Z patch, got an idea, make more realistic, program some traffic jams in blackwood... then we are realistic

so bring back the clutch a normal tyre temperature....and the game is back where it was , then i ll forgive you about the reving...

You do realise your "arguements" make absoloutly no sense what so ever?.

LFS is SIMULATING the cars in the sim, so a car like the XRG,XFG etc etc, WILL NOT have clutchless/flat shifting engines/transmissions, therefore, it will simulate them with systems that they would have, i.e. having to lift the throttle.

I think you are missing the point of LFS all together, and if it's that sort of fun and excitment you are after, then maybe one of the more arcade style type of race games would suit you better.

I TRUELY hope that the tyres, clutch and everything stay as they are, infact, I hope that when engine damage, engine temp control, brake damage and brake simulations come in, it will further "thin out" the arcade drivers from the people who want a "real" sim.

It's sorta like an LFS arcade driver cull, and long may it continue.

For the record, I am slower on the latest patch, but the fun and excitment is still there, I understand why the dev team have done what they have done.

south city is growing

top picture is version Y, lower picture is version X

You are talking about the Tyre temp, it is not far from real ( at least the "road tyres" )
In Driftin i can say that a new set of tyres last about 5 - 7 k on a track caaled Rudskogen ( its about 3 laps )

And in LFS the tyres is waste after 3-4 k.

But i miss the engine temp!
Brake temp \ fading

Nice patch ( if i dont se the clutch shit )
Keep it going

Cheers

Quote from Ondrejko :

south city is growing

top picture is version Y, lower picture is version X

awesome pic thanks a lot

tire wear and fuel consumption (or fuel capacity) is far off from the real world. in which 500hp+ open wheeler or GT/stockcar can you drive a track like Kyoto Oval for over 120 laps without pitting for fuel or tires???


at least we have clutch-wear. next is brake wear (should not be that difficult as it is the same system with the clutch IMO...

Quote from Fischfix :

at least we have clutch-wear. next is brake wear (should not be that difficult as it is the same system with the clutch IMO...

Clutch heat - not wear. And brake heat is slightly more complex because you have to also take in account airflow and adjustments made to the brakeducts - plus there's the "ideal brake temperature", etc.

Hy. where could I get old x patch?

Quote from Reiviv Jääkaru :

Hy. where could I get old x patch?

You don't want it really, y-patch is what you want as it is closer to reality and has lot of improvements, then you would like to get S1 license and you get mighty XRT to drive again

Any ideas anyone how I can set up my G-25 so I can get throttle and brake to work at the same time?


in g25 settings u should use separate and not combined(default) axis.
dunno why that setting is default....

Quote from Dalibor79 :

in g25 settings u should use separate and not combined(default) axis.
dunno why that setting is default....

Supposedly there are games that don't support seperate throttle/brake axis and even would crash... But Logitech failed to mention which those games are...

Quote from danowat :

I TRUELY hope that the tyres, clutch and everything stay as they are, infact, I hope that when engine damage, engine temp control, brake damage and brake simulations come in, it will further "thin out" the arcade drivers from the people who want a "real" sim.

It's sorta like an LFS arcade driver cull, and long may it continue.

I'm sure it will, until you are an island of a handfull of blinkered individuals pretending you are driving a real car instead of sitting in front of a computer screen. Everyone else will have walked away, to games where they can have fun, and not be ridiculed for it.

IT IS NOT REAL. IT IS A GAME. IT IS FOR FUN.

It makes me smile, to read these posts from people who are obsessed with so-called realism, how they pick and choose which parts of reality they want included. Wouldn't it be realistic if, once you crashed into the barrier, you were out of racing for the next 4 hours while your car was fixed? How is that different from damaging your engine through over-revving, or clutch wear? Surely there should be a consequence to ANY aspect of racing, if you want realism.

And before anyone spouts any crap about 'it's a work-in-progress', those aspects, the 'inconvenient' aspect will NEVER be included in this game. So who decides what's real and what's not?

You are making fools of yourselves, you really are...

Quote from Fat-Alfie :

I'm sure it will, until you are an island of a handfull of blinkered individuals pretending you are driving a real car instead of sitting in front of a computer screen. Everyone else will have walked away, to games where they can have fun, and not be ridiculed for it.

IT IS NOT REAL. IT IS A GAME. IT IS FOR FUN.

It makes me smile, to read these posts from people who are obsessed with so-called realism, how they pick and choose which parts of reality they want included. Wouldn't it be realistic if, once you crashed into the barrier, you were out of racing for the next 4 hours while your car was fixed? How is that different from damaging your engine through over-revving, or clutch wear? Surely there should be a consequence to ANY aspect of racing, if you want realism.

And before anyone spouts any crap about 'it's a work-in-progress', those aspects, the 'inconvenient' aspect will NEVER be included in this game. So who decides what's real and what's not?

You are making fools of yourselves, you really are...

Well done sir, just gave me a giggle..
Yes.. realism in videogames is rather interesting aspect indeed!

Quote from JTbo :

You don't want it really, y-patch is what you want as it is closer to reality and has lot of improvements, then you would like to get S1 license and you get mighty XRT to drive again

I still want old x patch because my xfg sets suck on y patch and I can't get newones nowhere

Quote from Fat-Alfie :

I'm sure it will, until you are an island of a handfull of blinkered individuals pretending you are driving a real car instead of sitting in front of a computer screen. Everyone else will have walked away, to games where they can have fun, and not be ridiculed for it.

IT IS NOT REAL. IT IS A GAME. IT IS FOR FUN.

It makes me smile, to read these posts from people who are obsessed with so-called realism, how they pick and choose which parts of reality they want included. Wouldn't it be realistic if, once you crashed into the barrier, you were out of racing for the next 4 hours while your car was fixed? How is that different from damaging your engine through over-revving, or clutch wear? Surely there should be a consequence to ANY aspect of racing, if you want realism.

And before anyone spouts any crap about 'it's a work-in-progress', those aspects, the 'inconvenient' aspect will NEVER be included in this game. So who decides what's real and what's not?

You are making fools of yourselves, you really are...

There is a slight difference between stopping you from racing after a mistake (e.g. very very long car repair times), and punishing you from driving unrealistically (clutch/tyre/drivetrain/etc wear).

We do hope that when LFS becomes too hard for you to cope with you'll feck off and play something else, because we like Scawen's vision, and that's for more realism. Not ultimate, everything included realism (which wouldn't work on a computer game), but anything that can be added without detracting from fun or playability within reason.

Who decides? Scawen.

Is it wrong that LFS morphs into a more realistic sim that a lot of people can't cope with? No. It's been widely known that that was the goal all the long, and as such there is no sympathy to be had with morons who can't drive, or want excessive unrealistic features. Sure, there will be compromises along the way, and no has every said anything. We all know it's a game we play on a computer on generally little screens with plasticky controllers, but that doesn't stop the software itself from becoming more real...

I wonder how many people moan on flight sim forums that they are too thick to fly a plane vaguely properly? And not many have too many concessions to fun/playabilily/"it's a game", yet many have huge user bases!!! There is a vast, untapped market for REALISTIC driving simulators, and you happen to have wandered into the forum for one such attempt. Get out if you don't like it.

Quote from Reiviv Jääkaru :

I still want old x patch because my xfg sets suck on y patch and I can't get newones nowhere

The XFG hasn't actually changed, so it's a simple case of tweaking some camber, tyre pressures and gear ratios. There is also the Inferno Setupfield, which will probably have one. And online I'd expect lots of people to send you one after a race if you ask politely.

Quote from Fat-Alfie :

...

It´s about having a realistic RACING EXPERIENCE. What contribution would having to wait 4 hours for repairs have to the RACING EXPERIENCE? It´s funny that so often when people don´t like changes to LFS that increase the realism all they can do is point at other things that aren´t realistic (yet) and take the simulation aspect of LFS way out of context and to the extreme like you´re doing here. It´s a racing simulator, not a real life simulator.
If you really can´t see the difference in simulation the car handling and silly things like you mention I guess you´re just to thick to understand.

There are enough people interested in simulators, older sims have proven that. Who says there isn´t any fun doing that? It might not be fun to you, but that doesn´t make it a fact. Not to mention the flight simulator scene, where people are "pretending to be in a plane". There is enough interest in that and people have fun with it.

Quote :

You are making fools of yourselves, you really are...

Pot, meet kettle.

LFS clearly states it´s goals on the website.
Yet you bought it and now you´re complaining about it getting too serious and the realism level too high.
Who´s the fool here?

joen; He never actually complained about the level of realism, so what are you flapping on about? You're obviously so focused on hammering anyone who disagrees with you and your club that you failed to read what Fat-Alfie actually posted.


tristan; Not get what you wanted from Santa this year or do you just enjoying attacking people for the fun on it?

Quote :

We do hope that when LFS becomes too hard for you to cope with you'll feck off and play something else, because we like Scawen's vision, and that's for more realism

Oh right, You mean the small 'club' you've formed that essentially goes around posting junk and ridiculing anyone that doesn't agree with the 'club' motto. I just love all the playground politics and backhanded crap you idiots post, you all seem to forget that this is only a GAME (simulated yes - but ultimately a GAME) yet you take it so serious.

Quote from Rooble :

tristan; Not get what you wanted from Santa this year or do you just enjoying attacking people for the fun on it?

He did not, he just explained politely what LFS goal is as some have had difficulties to understand that.

Quote from Rooble :

tristan; Not get what you wanted from Santa this year or do you just enjoying attacking people for the fun on it?
Oh right, You mean the small 'club' you've formed that essentially goes around posting junk and ridiculing anyone that doesn't agree with the 'club' motto. I just love all the playground politics and backhanded crap you idiots post, you all seem to forget that this is only a GAME (simulated yes - but ultimately a GAME) yet you take it so serious.

We don't do Christmas in my family, but I moved into my new house, which I guess is a pretty big present (excluding the mortgage!).

I'm not attacking for the fun of it. I'm attacking (if that's the word you want to use) because said fool seems to think LFS should retain as many arcade features as possible because it's more fun, forgetting the very raison detre of LFS is to be the most realistic simulator available.

The "club" is just an amusing thread to nullify the whiners that popped up after the latest patch. It's nothing more, and I've barely read any posts in it. No one benefits - it's just a laugh at the morons who can't drive without arcade assistances, which is what LFS should be about in the first place.

Ridiculing? Nothing wrong with that. Well, nothing more wrong than putting yourself up for ridicule in the first place, and if you're man enough to do that, then you're man enough to take it. It's not as though I'm everyone's favourite, so if you look I actually RECEIVE more ridicule than I give out. And I find it best not to cry too much about it.

Yes it's a game. We all know it. We've never forgotten it. I play it for FUN too. But I (we) get no kicks from unrealistic, arcade nonsense. And neither, ultimately, does Scawen

The small club is LFS. It just so happens that a lot of people have inadvertently joined the wrong club...

I've to agree with Rooble. No sim can ever be 100% realistic, getting close it is good but not if it becomes impossible to use for a significant proportion of the user base. I'm not complaining about the loss of cut and blip though, it's good improvements.

I skipped breakfast, thanks for asking.

Why are people so scared of "The truth intent of LFS"? Play rFactor. Or GTR. Or GTL. Or GTR2. Or NFS. or TDU. Or Forza. Or GT4/5. They cater for people who want 'ease of use' over 'driving physics and techniques'.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The small club is LFS. It just so happens that a lot of people have inadvertently joined the wrong club...

Nah, some just dont see realism as a passionate religion that needs to spread for everones mind as the major achievement and aim, also everyone dont seek it like its the holy grail.. immersion is the word for me i guess.. I love racing sims, but i have no problems enjoying them even if they arent perfect or aiming to simulate all the possible things the cars do. I like LFS, but i also like rFactor, GTL, GTR2, GPL, RBR, Race07... none of them is perfect, but all are immersive.. and i dont even put em into any sort of this is better than this order since i love em all. LFS aims for uber realism.. rFactor has variety and lovely amount of it.. GTL has sexy old cars.. GTR2 beats LFS in feeling of GT cars anyday, allthough i prefer GTR.., you get the point.. Some people indeed sound like bible bashers, but they just are realism bashers.. Well.. at least theres some pretty funky handbagging daily on the forums to keep others entertained.

But that's the point - LFS is all about that aim for realism, whereas the other games are more about immersion and cheap thrills [and sales]. I don't like them because the physics are so awful, but I've never told anyone to stop playing it.

If you play LFS for anything other than realism, then I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope you enjoy it, but bear in mind at some point you are likely to fall out with it when Scawen gets rid of whatever arcade thing you've been relying on, be it chase views, auto cut, keyboard stabilisation or the trackmap. Other things might make you change your mind - if you're a drifter, enhanced tyre and drivetrain physics should make you love it more, and as InSim develops too you'll see more and more drifting competitions. Who knows what could happen - but arcade stuff is unlikely to stay. And no one has any say in it other than the five developers.

well.. saying others game physics suck is rather steep and unjustified really, but i guess everyone has right for their opinion..
Personally i think you are badly missing out

EDIT:Only thing i dont buy is the cheap thrills, LFS is not the hardest game by far.. i know few other that take much much much more practice to learn properly, and push to limits.. and it has nothing to do with realism.. frankly LFS physics are so slowly advaning, that it still lacks in about billion areas, where many other games give more complete package, and therefore more immersive one.

Tristan, I don't think that track map will go, why Scawen would make efforts to improve it (remember those colours?) if he has intention to remove it?

Of course there can be some more hardcore option set -serverside option. However removing track map and chase view might not be coming. Well, we never know for sure, man has always some surprises and that is nice in development of LFS, keeps one waiting what will there be next