I usually sit in spectate mode until the race is just about to start, then hit Shift-J which puts me right at the back of the grid. T1 arrives, i brake early and let all the mayhem unfold infront of me, then calmly dodge all the wreckage and make up half a dozen places. Seriously, i was doing this a few days ago on a full server, i was 7 seconds a lap slower than the quickest guys yet i never finished lower than sixth ! it's great fun !

But if you want to win race's then i'd suggest staying out of servers with more then 10 racers as mentioned by someone above. Or race with people who you know.

More servers need to stop mid-race join completely imo. That would stop people being so aggressive in the first place whilst also preventing the arrival of the oh-so-annoying 5-lap-down ignorants that have no respect for anyone else in the server at all and just drive round like we're all here for their benefit.

I don't understand peoples problems at the start of races. 9 times out of 10 I can work my way through the field with minimal contact yet you'll always get the loud mouthed ones shouting off the in the server about getting `wrecked.` Then when I've spec'd to watch them 9 times out of 10 it's there fault they are getting caught up.

I'll start from back/mid-field/front and have very few problems.

Rules of race starts
1. Don't jam your brakes on for no reason... if your unsure where to brake then brake gently
2. Always know where the other cars are around you by using left/right and behind views
3. Don't hesitate, keep your line if you can and don't start diving for silly gaps
4. Cars spinning ahead = slow down NOT pile into them full throttle
5. Hold the inside line, that way you make people go the long way round and wont find yourself getting forced out wide at T1...

Those are the steps I take and I very rarely find myself involved in any contact at T1...

At the end of the day `shit happens` if you get knocked at the start of the race just continue driving. I hate the ones who spend the whole race doing `shift + r` when if they had just kept going they'd have only lost about 5secs.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

they are spinning on every corner causing people who are actually battling for position to either crash into them or to loose the position from the driver behind

Well to be honest, its the responsibility of the car behind to avoid any cars in front that have crashed. I've had a few races where I've misjudged a corner slightly and ended up in the track waiting for a gap in the traffic so I can rejoin and someone's come 'SMACK' into me at full speed and then proceeded to spam the chat with 'SH1FT P N00B!!!!1111wtfzomg'

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Well to be honest, its the responsibility of the car behind to avoid any cars in front that have crashed.

Umm, it's the responsibility of the driver who joined the race from the box to have common sense! I don't mind lapping a driver who started the race at the same time as i do and to avoid him, but if you join the race from the box, then FFS if you see a blue flag either find the nearest empty spot on the track and STOP, or spectate, shift + P or whatever. There's no justification in ruining other people race by joining it from the box and pretend like nothing happened and that you're on the same lap as they are, and it's certainly NOT my responsibility to slow down and loose the position because of him, it's his DUTY to get out of the way ASAP, since you already missed the start of the race, than make sure that your selfish drive doesn't ruin anyone else's race! Don't you agree?

I just got rammed because some noob didnt stop.. I hate it!

but i just love to race in a server with many cars but its almost impossible to get thru the first corner but what you gonna do about it?..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Umm, it's the responsibility of the driver who joined the race from the box to have common sense! I don't mind lapping a driver who started the race at the same time as i do and to avoid him, but if you join the race from the box, then FFS if you see a blue flag either find the nearest empty spot on the track and STOP, or spectate, shift + P or whatever. There's no justification in ruining other people race by joining it from the box and pretend like nothing happened and that you're on the same lap as they are, and it's certainly NOT my responsibility to slow down and loose the position because of him, it's his DUTY to get out of the way ASAP, since you already missed the start of the race, than make sure that your selfish drive doesn't ruin anyone else's race! Don't you agree?

No... He should under no circumstances battle you for position (which he doesn't have anyway), but neither has he to spectate, stop (to make him more of an obstacle than he already is - are you crazy?) nor go off the track, just so you don't get fussed with lapping him... It's YOUR responsibility to get by, midrace-joiner or not... Also, it's not like your the only one who has to get past, others have to pass him as well, nobody has an advantage...

Quote from bbman :

but neither has he to spectate, stop (to make him more of an obstacle than he already is - are you crazy?) nor go off the track, just so you don't get fussed with lapping him... It's YOUR responsibility to get by, midrace-joiner or not... Also, it's not like your the only one who has to get past, others have to pass him as well, nobody has an advantage...

I really disagree.. I'm not talking about fair players that join mid race and politely move from the racing line not causing you to do any unpredictable movements and not causing you to slow down 1 km/h.
I'm talking about no-manner idio*s who join the racing speeding and not looking behind them and when you get near them they don't try to move or let you pass but actually race you and slow you down enough so that the guy behind you uses that to gain your position... How's that cool and not worth punching in your keyboard very hard?
And it's not true that it's same for all, it's not same, if i come first to the mid-race joiner and have to slow down to pass/avoid him, then the guy who was behind me uses that situation in his advantage and gains a position.. And i didn't mean to STOP unpredictably, but to move to the side of the track that it's not used or just slow down on non racing line part of the track or whatever..
Like i said, this has nothing to do with lapped drivers, but mid-race joiners who come to a server, ruin someone's race and then go to another server and so on..

Well those are morons anyway, midrace-joining or not...

this thread jynxed me!! i had lots of great racing for the last week or so... but today i got crashed out multiple times on the track i am fastest on....

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Well, nvm the team name, I don't mind being wrecked in a battle or even in T1, but to be wrecked by a speeding mid-race joiner from the pits, that's worrying..

You always feel on edge when someone is rejoining the race track, there is too many... well...... there is many words for these cretins, but penis is the one that springs to MY mind sorry if i offended anyone, it's just the truth.

Quote from keiran :

I don't understand peoples problems at the start of races. 9 times out of 10 I can work my way through the field with minimal contact yet you'll always get the loud mouthed ones shouting off the in the server about getting `wrecked.` Then when I've spec'd to watch them 9 times out of 10 it's there fault they are getting caught up.

I'll start from back/mid-field/front and have very few problems.

Rules of race starts
1. Don't jam your brakes on for no reason... if your unsure where to brake then brake gently
2. Always know where the other cars are around you by using left/right and behind views
3. Don't hesitate, keep your line if you can and don't start diving for silly gaps
4. Cars spinning ahead = slow down NOT pile into them full throttle
5. Hold the inside line, that way you make people go the long way round and wont find yourself getting forced out wide at T1...

Those are the steps I take and I very rarely find myself involved in any contact at T1...

At the end of the day `shit happens` if you get knocked at the start of the race just continue driving. I hate the ones who spend the whole race doing `shift + r` when if they had just kept going they'd have only lost about 5secs.

I don´t break for no reason, but if there´s a corner to come and 3 cars in front of me, I have to. I can´t do nothing about the cars behind me trying to take the corner 30 km/h too fast and crashing into me.
I´m using my mirrors and the keys to look around very thoroughly. I can´t remember bumping into somone when coming out of the pit.
Even on straights people drive into my side, when they recognize they can´t overtake.

They game itself isn´t arcadish, but the people who play it define it.

There are many gentle people out there, but sometimes I don´t have the patience to jump from server to server to find them.

Having raced today on BL1 FOX I never read "Sorry".

Quote from NikLaw :

Having raced today on BL1 FOX I never read "Sorry".

There's your problem: join better servers and laugh about the idiots who can only race one combo their entire life...

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

If your being pushed near the back on straight and corners you need to speed up mate if you don't like it and put more time on that combo.

No, if he's pushed near the back on straight and corners he needs to stop racing with morons who have no idea how to race.

NFS did one smart thing in it's current verion of ProStreet. Collision (and drafting) is off on cars that are a lap or more down to your car, although they can still draft and collide with each other. I thought this was a pretty clever idea. For LFS, it would keep the late joiners as well as slow or damaged racers from being an issue.

Huge grids on public servers is going to be an issue. It was for Nascar Racing Season 2003, where grids up to 40 players on a high speed, restrictor plate race forced players to stay in packs to take advantage of the draft. There was usually one pile up per race.

Quote from JeffR :

NFS did one smart thing in it's current verion of ProStreet. Collision (and drafting) is off on cars that are a lap or more down to your car, although they can still draft and collide with each other. I thought this was a pretty clever idea. For LFS, it would keep the late joiners as well as slow or damaged racers from being an issue.

I don't like the 'collision off' idea for simply being a lap down, as that's a normal racing scenario (especially for me!), but for mid race joiners it might be an idea for a server option. Allow mid race join, let them do some practice laps, but they'd have no physical bearing on the race whatsoever (maybe even invisible or transparent??).

Quote :

Huge grids on public servers is going to be an issue. It was for Nascar Racing Season 2003, where grids up to 40 players on a high speed, restrictor plate race forced players to stay in packs to take advantage of the draft. There was usually one pile up per race.

One pile up per race sounds like less that the average real life NASCAR race.

Quote from AeroMechanical :

Even very experienced racers screw up from time to time though, so there's no sense in flying off the handle- that always makes things worse.

Screw up? NEVER!

/me starts pruning his replay collection

Gotta drive defensively on public servers. When the league season's going I rarely drive on public servers, and when I go back I'm appalled by what I see even on the cleaner servers. Watch your back and leave if the servers too bad, try to find the nice places to race or join leagues.

Some general rants that probably won't ever do any good:

Think about it, why should you have any rights in a 10-15 minute race when you're a lap down? Get out of the way (not just let them pass) of active races that you have no part in. I have no problems outpacing most people, but I stay well out of the way of an active race when it comes down to it. (Which happens quite often considering pretty much everyone starts out on a server mid-race joined a few seconds or more off the pace.)

DO NOT come out of the pits mid-race around other people, DO NOT come out of the pits around other people in a qualifying session. Alternatively, don't assume that just because someone's coming out of the pits they're mid-race joined, there's a small chance that might be for position.

Pay attention while returning to the track, I see people ignoring this on the CTRA servers even. (Those remind you to use caution when you're off.) Don't just drive back on as soon as you regain your car, and make sure you leave time to get going in the right direction in your estimates of the next person getting there. If you're spun on the track, stay put, especially around a blind corner. Don't attempt to move to another spot on the track unless no one's coming so you don't hit someone who's already committed to going one direction around you. (Feel free to move the rest of the way off the track if you're on the edge, of course.) Also, don't come back on around other people unless you're stuck in a situation where you can't kill your momentum without the aid of a wall. You lost your right to the track when you went off, so just swallow your pride and let those few cars go by.

I'm kinda surprised that I even have to write the above rant/guidebook?, but it seems a lot of people lack some common sense.

I like the blue flaggers that try to race me. One warning of my blue-flag bind (move, or Ill MAKE you move), then I subtly take them out. Long hours of practice with the AI does wonders for automotive war, I tell you!

Quote from Stigpt :

I like the blue flaggers that try to race me. One warning of my blue-flag bind (move, or Ill MAKE you move), then I subtly take them out. Long hours of practice with the AI does wonders for automotive war, I tell you!

Even they are being stupid, you turn to a moron when you do that

I race in 2 servers online, sometimes 3, that being proracingroom and AAL. Those are aussie servers that are professional and clean, they get rid of the laggers too . Dark side racing server is good too, but ive never been in there with 20 people +

Only suggestion, and solution, race seriously only in leagues. Best place to do it.

The Problem is that the damage model is way to forgiving in LFS, specially in the Open Wheelers, but also in other cars crashes have very slight or no effect on the car

Quote from Stigpt :

One warning of my blue-flag bind (move, or Ill MAKE you move), then I subtly take them out.

That makes you as bad as them then.
Purposely taking someone out, for any reason, is piss poor behaviour.

NASCAR 2003 Season for PC
43 car grids of totally awesome racing and of course massive carnage but seriously they ran online lag free with huge fields and it was great
man do i miss those days, EA of course bought the rights to tracks and proceeded to destroy anither fine game

Quote from Stigpt :

I like the blue flaggers that try to race me. One warning of my blue-flag bind (move, or Ill MAKE you move), then I subtly take them out. Long hours of practice with the AI does wonders for automotive war, I tell you!

That makes you a deliberate wrecker then

Quote from SmokeyAU :

NASCAR 2003 Season for PC
43 car grids of totally awesome racing and of course massive carnage but seriously they ran online lag free with huge fields and it was great
man do i miss those days, EA of course bought the rights to tracks and proceeded to destroy anither fine game

There are still leagues that run Papyrus NASCAR Racing 2003 with 43 cars. It's amazing how long a good Simulation can survive.