I have been thinking about the idea of locked/fixed setups for LFS again, what would make it a great addition.

By this I mean the ability for the server to enforce car setups that must be used and can't be changed by the user.

This has obvious appeal for many reason. Leagues where is is known everyone has the same so then it down to the driver. Might be the system could allow for the definition of setups per track per car.

If the definitions allowed you to control which settings are locked and which are not it allows simulation of racing classes that lock say engine/gears/diff but allowed to you change everything else.

Locked settings would just not display in the garage, only the changable items would be visible.

The setup files could include locking details. The easiest way being the addition of a control block at the end of the file that holds flags to indicate whicch fields in the file are locked. If the block is missing (Old setup files) it is assumed that all fields are unlocked.

It might be worth also adding a tag to say which server or insim mod they belong to. Then they will only appear when you are on that server.

If you bring InSim into the mix things become VERY interesting. With InSim control comes dynamic control over the setups for each driver.

You could have servers that after each race applies weight and intake restrictions to the top placed people to balance the next race more like some touring car series do in a race day.

All sorts of things become possible. You could calculate the average speed for each driver over the race and then use restrictions to try and make everyone even in the next race.

The way I see it is this. CTRA servers were that killer racing app. They have created an environment that makes you want to race fair but fight hard. You know you can because the servers attract the right people. Who knows what this sort of control over things might give us.

Throw skin control in and allow servers to create more car types. Have multiple lock setups per car type. The skin tweaked to make the grills look different etc to denote the difference between the cars. One might corner better but its slightly slower than the other. Bit like the Baby UFR/XFR cars someone has done.

We all know that CS is the mod that put HL on the map, without it HL was just another Q2 core system, jusst slightly modified. It would have stayed in the shadow of the Quake series.

Right, time to throw this out there and see what it kicks up.

http://www.lfsnews.net/default ... =shownews&news_id=651

race is tomorrow

It is a ton of fun so far

I do like the idea of locked settings a lot

Quote from Woz :

<snip>
All sorts of things become possible. You could calculate the average speed for each driver over the race and then use restrictions to try and make everyone even in the next race.
<snip>

What's the point of this?

To make races more interesting for the spectators...

which is kinda pointless in LfS.

I can see how slower drivers like myself might benefit a little from it: it's just less frustrating to race if the leaders don't rush away at the start to only be seen in your mirrors a few laps into the race ^^
On the other hand, the results would be propably the same. You simply cannot make a good driver as slow as a bad one by just giving him the same setup...

Also, there's the "skill over setup" debate, and I think, being able to set up your car proberly is a skill in itself, so why should you not being able to exploit that? Not that I havethe slightest grasp of what to do to make my car to go quicker on certain tracks, but anyone who does is welcome to do so.

Please dont get distracted by the auto balance ideas. I was just triyng to throw up some ideas to highlight that InSim could be used in creative ways with locking etc.

I bet none of us could picture some of the "mods" that it could allow.

I would like to keep this focused on the idea of locking parts of setups and if full insim control is worth it.

Think of it like a modding tool in a way, thats what I want to bounce around, not the autobalance stuff, they were out of the air few second thoughts to highlight the concept.

HTH

Quote from March Hare :

To make races more interesting for the spectators...

I race for myself, not for lurking spectators..

I think most people use the same setup anyway, barring any minor tweaks to suit their own driving style. In LOTA, we often have drivers share their own setup. In most cases, the setup is submitted by a highly skilled driver who can handle a set that may be a bit lairy. A lesser skilled driver then has the opportunity to take a set they know is fast in the right hands (rather than making one from scratch, which requires hours of testing, regardless of experience) and tweak it to suit their own liking.

Nah, I don't like locked sets. It isn't that big difference anyway.

Only place for them could be a stock setup for the road cars. Somewhere in the line of Bob's road setups. Then allow no changes at all to the cars. Ie. stock car racing (and I don't mean NASCAR).

I bet lots of ppl have said this, but I say it again:
Setups are personal. If one setup is fantastic when I drive, it doesn't mean it is that when someone else drives. Everyone drives differently. Imho I don't understand why someone want to have setups made for others. It is just like borrowing a handmade suit made for your father: Sure, you can wear it, but it is tight in some places and loose in others.

Yes, maybe I have mad english, I have been drinking all evening.

Having the ability to simulate different racing rules is one reason for locking. I get the feeling some people did not read my original post and didn't get that I was trying to get locking control on a setting by setting basis.

Some racing series might want to lock all the performance things like engine, gears and diff so the driver can only change how the car handles.

Aussie V8s for example are limited to 1 of 3 different final drive ratios while I think fomula ford has sealed engines supplied to the teams..

+1, see no harm.

Few things that would be nice:
- to be able to make semi-limited setups, like leave tire pressures or caster angles unlocked. I think there is no need to make the system fully adjustable, just make some "preset" for what is locked and what not would do and would also make the system easier to set up on a server
- when you join a server that has locked setups the setup would be automatically downloaded and offered to be used. The user need to be made aware that locked setups are used

(gottago...)

-1 to all of this.


See, imo that would be totaly gay.
See, when i started palying lfs, i thought that those quick bastards (:>) were having like uber setup and what not, so it became clear to me that i need that too. And i started playing around with them. Maybe you should too, and you will see it is not that hard. And its a great pleasure winning a race knowing that you made the setup at your own. Even greater when somebody actually asks you for setup, bcz it seems to be good. Just try that, and it will be fine. LFS allready has same cars for every driver, so making setups even too makes no sence and is just stupid. Sorry

+1 for me, it is something we are discussing at this very moment in a couple of Leagues in AUS.
Woz check you BSP thread as I have also posted some comments there

+1 from me also, have always thought it could be interesting to have sever side restictions in setups and even performance criteria to create interesting race serries

Weird, Woz! Flinty and a few Aussie racers were debating just this the other day. I notice CTRA can check the set your running is the correct restrictor setting and bounce you back to pits if its not, which is cool.

Oh and to all the "this is gay" crowd, until LFS has 100's of track and 1000's of cars to select from, its up to us (us being league organisers and the like) to mix it up a bit to stop it all going stale for all the racers.

The fixed set actually works really well when the set used is a very neutral one that favours the slower guy. You will often find the aliens pushing too hard and spearing off into the bushes simply because they can only drive certain kinds of sets, and have trouble driving the car to suit the setup.

Anyway, as my good friend Flinty says +1 to this idea.

I like the idea of equal chances for drivers to win (opposed to driver/engineer-personalities) but there are problems with the normal locked-setup scheme.
Alien/moran setup - Often the fastest driver gets to choose the setup, this seams fair but fails becuase then it will be a alien setup, undrivable for anyone human (probably undrivable for other aliens as well). The same goes for when the entrepreneur ambitious enough to organize a series creates the setup, a task which he is noob at. Sollution to this could be to release a few setups before and all vote on which to use (this takes alot of time). Using RACE_S or DEFAULT is kind of good but they are horrible at some tracks.

The locked/editable setup scheme is a good way to simulate a homoglated series, but I would say that it should go as far as to permit limiting the ranges on some settings. But is you with hidden mean secret, thats silly becuase it would only be secret to computer illiterates.

Another topic is how to create a close series where the good drivers has to risk DNF in fights with the wreckers. Here I like the idea of a series where the grid position is in reversed championship order (all places must give points for this to work), also you can skip qualifying. But I don't like weight penalties etc. becuase it usually means that whoever wins the series is probably not the best driver in the best car. It is however useful at fixing errors in the homogaltion process (where two cars that are supposed to be equal aren't)

+1 Nice feature that I hope will be implemented in a year or two from now.