We do not have them in LFS they have no relevance at all.
The current gearboxes we have in LFS are:
H-gates
Sequential (with and without ignition cut)
Bike
F1
The clutch only has any relevance to the H-gate gearboxes during gearshifts in LFS (if we ignore the F1 'box because that's completely different). Please keep the discussion to H-gate gearboxes designed for circuit racing or road use in domestic cars. Just spurting off with random examples isn't going to result in an intelligent debate. The more we continue this discussion the more I get the sense that you're just trying to have a moan at the fact you can no longer be competitive with a silly controller (when you already have a wheel). Seeing as you've already found a cheat to get round it I suggest you stop digging
So it is causing you problems, sufficient enough for you to have to make a program (macro) sort out your inabilities, either driver or controller induced?
This thread is supposed to be about the realism of clutch oveheating as implemented in patch Y. I wasn't sure if this was based on real world cars that actually have clutches as bad as some claim it to be in Patch Y, or if it was just LFS fiction. Since a few responses from members who actually experiemented stated it is exagerrated, I'll chalk if off as LFS fiction.
Regarding the removal of auto-cut and auto-blip, note that it's not possible to blip the throttle while braking with a combined axis setup, which includes a lot of wheel and pedal sets and other controllers owned by members here, so I think removing auto-blip was a mistake. Auto-cut isn't a problem for combined axis, so it's not an issue, and not even needed for some cars, as demonstrated by my no lift shifts with the LX6 at Blackwood, where my lap times are essentially the same with or without the "macros", and clutch overheating isn't an issue either.
Maybe LFS is starting to get a little too elitist, but that's a subject for a different thread.
Regarding the macros (scripting), it's a standard feature included with all CH USB products, just another component in the controller package, so what's the big deal? The advantage of twin joysticks is they work well for both flight simulators and racing games. This setup is also similar to radio control transmitters, which also use two sticks for control, so this helps re-inforce my radio control aircraft flying. I'm just not into racing games enough to justify buying a G25 type wheel and pedals.
As long as we're getting off topic, and to add something that some here might enjoy, a couple of videos of my gliders in action, plus a high in rc helicopter doing incredible stunts. The first video is of a 10 foot 2 inch 4 1/4 lb thermal type glider (carbon / kevlar / fiber glass contruction hollow molded wings, not cheap, but I'm truly interested in rc gliders). The second video of a 6 foot wing span foamie (cheap and "bounceable") glider I used at a local slope site when I was first learning how to do radio control. Kind of cool to be standing at a canyon ridge flying your model both below and above you, fairly far away, and with a nice view to appreciate.
Picture of my radio control transmitter, twin sticks!
Artemis Light, 10 foot 2 inch wing span glider, being launched using 210 feet of fishing, and 60 feet of latex tubing that generates about 25 pounds of force when stretched an additional 190 feet, which launches the glider like a person launching a kite. I hand catch the glider instead of landing it.
I plan to get a small electic power helicopter, with some aerobatic ability (like inverted hover). If I like it, I'll move on to more aerobatic models. A video from one of the top rc heli aerobatic pilots, the action starts about 25 seconds into the video:
It's been beaten to death. It's not over the top, and if it is, it's not by much; certainly not as much as you think. If you're so bloody confident about it being LFS fiction, then I offer you this challenge:
Take your Z06, keep your foot planted on the brakes, rev to 4500 or so (about what people attempt a take off at in LFS), and let the clutch ride enough to drop rpms a lot using even 1/4 throttle. Do it for around 10 seconds. Then perform a full throttle start, or even a rolling start at 20mph, and see how it goes. If you report with uninterrupted video proof of the entire event that everything is A OK, then you're probably right about LFS. That is, if you're willing to do that, which you probably are not because you know it's stupid. You love posting vids, so make that one? No video means you're not even confident enough in your own arguement to put your money where you mouth is about it.
Who cares? I certainly don't. If you can afford a PC, a License then you could certainly afford a low end seperate axis controller, 99% of the time, period. If you make a niche program like a sim, it's pretty ironic to expect it to not need niche components to complement it isn't it?
Please read the very first line at the top of this post, in your quote. In that context: what the hell are we even talking about?
Hogwash. Once again, LFS should NOT cater to the lowest common denominator. If by "elitist" you mean "specialised", then fine but I think you have no idea what the term means. I guess you could call skiing elitist since the proper equipment is necessary. I can hear you now: "wah, it's stupid that I need skis to ski".
Well, if you can afford a $70,000 car you can afford a G25 - you said it - you just don't want to. Therefore your combined axis argument is null and void even more so.
I also drive with a joystick.. I have the combined axis for throttle/brake.. So no more bliping Seriously, if they want to make the game more realistic, keep adding the clutch, engine heat, brake fade, but let us have our handicap options... Thats like a slap in the face removing the blip on downshift.
Why? It's not like it's impossible to drive without blipping on downshifts. All you lose is a tiny bit of stability under braking. Compared to leaving it in and thus removing any benefit for people actually able to do this correctly I think that's a small price to pay.
It's not what I think, because I haven't reproduced the problem. I created this thread to see what all the fuss was about in the other thread where players are complaining. The feedback I'm getting is conflicting. Some here feel that the clutch heating is exaggerated, others don't. I didn't think the segmented tire and hot spotting (did flat spotting ever get done?) was the best approach, but a proper hot spot model, based on actual contact patch area size (as opposed to fixed size segments) may have been too difficult to implement. I never understood why LFS started off with a viscous differential, instead of a limited slip differential (or just a regular differential). Based on these past experiences, I just wanted to know if the clutch overheating was realistic, since I don't have the time to test all the cars in LFS to see how each one reacts (I only tested the LX6, which didn't have a problem).
Obviously with "macros", auto-cut and auto-blip aren't an issue for me, but it is for other players, and I was just commenting on that. If the auto-cut and auto-blip were too "perfect", as was the situation with keyboard steering, then just degrade them a bit, as was done with keyboard steering, instead of removing the feature completely.
It's my impression that the people thinking it is exaggerated are a small minority at this point. I've also seen much more reasonable arguments and "evidence" from the "it's actually pretty good" camp and the other way around.
Yes I can drive without, but I will never be as fast as I was with it. I just have to brake way earlier than everyone else.
Well for the realism sake then.. Why do we have the readouts like F9 and F10? Tire heat and suspension damage. You don't get to see how hot your tires are irl, or how badly damaged your suspension is after you hit that wall...
I'll back up your statement with a link to my latest poll (which I'm sure you've all seen.) It's not QUITE the same thing, as the poll only asks if people have trouble with the clutch, not if people feel it is accurate, but you still get a pretty good sense of it by reading the posts underneath.
I doubt most cars in LFS would have the technology to allow the pitcrew to see live tyre temps, a readout of suspension misalignment, or even accurate fuel remaining.
Whilst we have them, I would like to see them merged onto one overlay (F10), rather than two. Perhaps remove overlays from online play, but retain them for offline play and seeing how clever LFS is under the skin...
The GTR cars may have some of these status options, like you have with Motec in GTR 2.
I doubt if damage status can be in there though, as this is usually observed by the driver by the feel of the car.
I dislike most of the dashboards in these cars as they still look too much like they are stock roadgoing dashboards - yet there's stuff like safety cages etc - bit of a contradiction IMO.
What I'd like to see is a lower-resolution real-time data-logging option in-game so you can record all the data you'd get from a .raf file without having to do the painful lap hunting and exporting from a replay. Something that would record data approximately as detailed as a real life telemetry logger would basically. If that's safely exposed via outgauge or some new out* format, so much the better.
That's because they're exactly that - the old cockpits with a rollcage. However they'll be changed... sometime... soon... next patch... something...
Well, not everyone will blip correctly now that they have to do it themselves. So it's not like you'll be the only one. If you're really desperate it's also completely possible to use a button to blip the throttle while braking. Harder of course, but I don't see why you should get an unfair advantage over people actually trying to master this skill by themselves just because of your choice of controller. If the setting is there, why would anyone that's trying to go fast ever turn it off?
I could possibly get on board with autoblip only being available for people driving with combined throttle/brake because of the inherent disadvantage of this setup, but quite frankly I think implementing that would be a lot of hassle for Scawen for very little benefit.
Blipping (for those able) is now another thing to do wrong and mess up and that adds some diversity to the racing that we didn't have before. LFS needs that to get away from the online hotlapping we see everywhere. Every lap shouldn't be perfect, and LFS shouldn't help you in any way to make that happen.
Personally, I'd like to see them go too. At least for the road cars. If the car wouldn't have that kind of telemetry readout in real life, remove it.
AFAIK no one uses live tire temperature readings in real life, and if they do it would be an elaborate system to get surface temperature readings (not the current core readings displayed by default) and wouldn't know when they're dirty. If this is technically possible I doubt it would be implemented in anything other than the BF1. Tire pressure readings may be slightly easier to do but are not widely used in motor racing, although I think some road cars now offer a basic measurement. The damage read out is completely unrealistic obviously and I very much doubt anybody would ever choose to display their live clutch temperature (in the unlikely case they bothered to measure it).
Not at all, a real GT car needs very little instrumentation, a standard dashboard does the job just fine with an additional gear indicator (for sequentials) and lap timer. I've seen them run with standard dashboards, mainly from drivers who disliked digital displays and it didn't seem to slow them down. Of course a digital display gets rid of things you don't need like the speedo and things that you don't have (like a fuel gauge) and allows the engine instrumentation to be displayed more accurately but it's not unrealistic and I'd like at least one car to retain standard gauges
Yes you are right, why learn to blip. It would be far better for you to just load up an AI and then watch it drive "in car".
Doing that means not only are the blip and cut done for you but you don't even have to worry about any of the controls, all of which are hard to "master" if you want to drive fast.
See how much easier it is to play now
Now a serious note: LFS is a hardcore sim that is not intended to aid the drivers. This is stated ON THE WEBSITE. This means you have to drive, not the computer for you.
Driving a car fast takes skill. It is not like PGR or GT4. This is a fact of life that is reflected in LFS
You don't get it. If I had the option to be able to blip, I would. Why would I run out and buy a shitty wheel, or a $300 G25 when the game was perfectly fine with the blip?
1) Did you complain when the old KB steer was removed?
I know you have been around that long. When it was removed it made it FAR FAR harder for KB players to play LFS and be as fast as someone using a full wheel setup.
2) Did you complain when cut was removed?
I believe this was removed before patch Y. Again for those without full setup it made things harder.
The thing is that you DO NOT HAVE TO BLIP. You just have to time you shifts better and when the engine is not reving so high. I have G25 but don't always Heel-Toe. Most of the time I will just change down later and use the brakes more.
Yes it will slow you down BUT why should there be an aid that allows people to be as fast or faster than people driving properly when they are not driving properly or using controls that do not allow them to drive properly.
You realise that EVERY argument you can possibly raise was raised when KB Steer was removed and it NEVER CAME BACK.
LFS will get harder and harder with EVERY version. You have to accept this of change sim I am afraid.
You can pick a second hand Logitech FF GP or Sidewinder up off ebay for £20, less than the price of S2 that's all you need to be able to blip proficiently.
I understand debates about forced camera positions, driver positions or turbo lag, but how on earth can somebody speak for driver aids? The sooner they're gone the better.
And what comes to thread title, haven't tortured anyones clutch like that in real life, but in LFS you can flatshift and kick the clutch quite a lot without any extra heat
I assume you have a clutch pedal AND you didn't just sit at redline and slip the clutch like mad until you are moving.
Please don't say you are a keyboard user that does not have the control to pull away in a higher gear as you only have digital control.
You do realise people HAVE posted replays pulling away in 5th and have not burnt out the clutch.
PLEASE post a replay of what you think is wrong so we can see if it is a valid argument you have or just another person that does not understand what a clutch is and does.
Seriously, if they want to make the game more realistic, keep adding the clutch, engine heat, brake fade, but let us have our handicap options... Thats like a slap in the face removing the blip on downshift.
