Yeah maybe it should only come in S3. But i was just thinking, what are the chances of this acctually happening? I dont think the dev's look in the improvement section?
edit: btw if there was a "UberPwner's World of Batmobiles 'n Stuff" server people would go on it, because come on, driving a ountmanouvarble super fast batmobile would be fun
It would probably be a way to relax like cruise servers? I doubt anybody would host leagues using a batmobile though.
Why are people so obsessed with mods? And additionally, does nobody read my posts on the matter?
Modding might well bring more people in, but they'd be playing in groups of about 5 on servers because that'd be all the people with the version that matches the server.
I'd much rather see an..ah the hell with it, I'm not typing it again. Search for my track / car creation ideas if you like.
Because bluntly, most people are bored of LFS's extremely limited content.
Others just want to pretend to be driving their own car (for some strange reason, as surely it'd be more realistic to drive the version sitting in your garage?)
And then there's the idiots who truly believe they're Nigel Mansell (or whoever they bolt their load over) when they set a world record at silverstone (these people really make me chuckle ).
Right now, I'd _love_ to be able to add (preferably build) tracks more than anything.. it's about the only thing that'd get me back on the LFS track as I'm bored shitless with the unimaginative regurgitated bullshit we have for tracks currently.
It's not "extremely limited" though. The biggest problem is that servers simply don't run most of the content. So it's more like extremely limited server choice (and with only 273 driven online miles, Migz has no room to join this discussion).
If you do the numbers, the potential combinations of cars and track combos is in the hundreds. You can't be telling me that everyone is bored of all of them, because I bet most people haven't played most of them. Ban AS3 and KY1 for a week and people would be forced to find new areas to multiplayer hotlap.
And I still don't think modding would help fix it. People would get just as bored after 400 laps of Nordschleife in the GT3 as they do after the same round Aston National.
I love all the mid-length Fern Bay tracks. How many servers do you see running them? Practically none, and the ones that are running them are usually almost empty. BL1 fills up instantly, AS3 fills up instantly, KY1 fills up instantly. People are lazy and don't want to learn something new, or risk not placing high because they've not run a zillion laps on that combo. The flipside is that those same people are complaining about being bored.
There's plenty of variety; it's the servers and players that are to blame for the lack of choice online.
Sure, there's many track configurations, none are very inspiring to me unfortunately. Track _environments_ is what LFS needs, not yet-another-few-polys-added-to-an-existing-track-to-create-a-new-track that LFS seems hell bent on doing In 2 years, Eric could have built at least 2 or 3 new complete track environments.. but alas, the lazy option was taken instead.
Our team has 5 servers, so setting a preferred combo for myself isn't an issue, for me it is the content that's limiting, not so much the hosts.. especially as I play mainly offline in most games.
Agreed that there's hundreds of combinations.. but that doesn't make them all interesting.
I'll openly admit there's a fair few I haven't driven and never will, simply as they don't interest me (I don't like open-wheelers and much prefer street cars to the GTRs.. and it has to be RWD for me.. which seriously limits my car selection (through my own choice, granted)). The tracks simply bore me stupid. As content stands right now (ignoring that the XRT has just been removed from the demo for a moment).. I'd be happy with the demo content (not saying I begrudge paying for my licenses.. I certainly don't.. but BL1 and the XRT IMO is the best combination in the game and the only one I can say I actually enjoy.. and no, I'm not a skidder ).
Depends. Even with rFactor's available content, I probably only have 50 tracks (~5 of them being my own creations) and a dozen mods installed. I picked and chose the ones I continued to like after a few runs.. if I do that in LFS, I'm left with BL1 and the XRT / LX* and FX50.
I guess you'd put me in that category too then. It's not that I haven't tried those tracks and the others.. I think at some point (save for the new SO chicane course).. I've had a race or 2 at every track layout (be it on or offline) except the oval [zzzZZzzzz] and once again, always go back to BL1 as my favourite.. it's by far Eric's best track IMO both in design and overall feel.
I'm not speaking so much of online though.. more generally.. so the above doesn't really apply to us all
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to start a petition for modding.. I'd love to drop rF and build tracks for LFS instead, but I also realise that at this stage, it would be pointless. I just hope that one day after S3 if I'm still capable of seeing past my nose at that age, that we're able to put our creative talents to good use towards LFS
I think if the track itself is interesting, the environment is pretty irrelevant. I don't tend to look at the high-rises around Blackwood for instance, because I'm concentrating more on the braking point for that corner (especially since the track changed). But take AS North Reversed, for instance. I usually hate Aston, but I still find that track one of the most technically demanding that LFS has. That means I'm looking at the tarmac enough that I forget where it is
You're right about the environments though, some more would be nice. But I think once they have weather, that won't be such a big issue - everything will look totally different at night/in the rain/covered in snow so it'll look fresh even if it's technically not.
I used the term 'environment' as the whole scene (maybe incorrectly?). What the horizon etc contains as you say, is pretty immaterial.. but I meant new complete tracks (layouts / designs). I'd be happy with an entirely new layout slapped over where Blackwood or Aston etc is.. what kind of trees the track has around it matters not.. I just hate this adding a small section of road through the middle of a loop of existing track to create "a new track" when we've been driving 80% of that track for the past 2 years.. 2 new corners and 1 mile shorter (or longer) doesn't make that track any more interesting (to me at least) than the one that's been around for longer.
Weather / Night doesn't really interest me too much either... mainly as it's by far too much of an FPS hit for my box to handle. It was fun to do a few wet races in F1C (although that was hardly realistic wet weather).. but have never used the option(s) in GTR2 for example as I go from 30fps to about 10
All in all, I'd just like to see some entirely new track designs. Eric's had oodles of time to do this, yet prefers to add 100' of polys cutting across an existing track which then gets marketed as a 'new track'.
I guess it really depends how the weather is done. If your card doesn't support pixel shading then water is gonna look a bit pants. But then the odds are the Dx9 upgrade is gonna happen at some point, so I'd be prepared
But looking at the updates that South City and Blackwood got (BL especially) - I think they were worth the wait. A large section needed re-learned, and the higher polycount meant it does look and feel different.
I don't know what Eric's way of creating tracks is, so I can't really say whether it's easy or not. Trying to come up with something that's not just a bodge of parts from other tracks probably isn't as simple as it sounds.
I only have a FX5900XT currently, so DX9 is out of the question, but I think the LFS engine needs a _serious_ optimisation session as I get similar FPS in both LFS and rF (in DX8 mode) but rF has the advantage of spec and bump maps, helping to bring a track to life with little consequence to the FPS dept. As nice as LFS' textures are, they still look like textures applied to a perfectly flat poly surface.
GTR2 has a stupid wet weather implementation. The "wet tracks" look exactly what they are.. a 2nd set of polys with a reflective material.. nothing like water in the slightest.
I plan to upgrade my box soon
I'm back up to speed almost on BL1 (with XRT) now after about 20 laps. I'll never be setting a WR there, but I didn't notice _that_ much of a difference.. maybe because I kept most of my wheels on the black stuff even before some of the extended run-off areas were reduced
I'd sooner Eric had spent his time building a new track though.
It's not that difficult. OK, like you, I don't know how Eric works or what the tools they have are like to work with... but for example, I moved an entire pitlane on one of my tracks to the opposite side of the track.. took me 2 days (working in 3DS catering for DX7, 8 and 9). Adding a few polys between a couple of corners to create a new "straight" would be about 30 mins work on the modelling / texturing and the rest of the day perhaps creating a new AI path (but I don't even know if this is Eric's dept or not).. so the changes to Blackwood for example.. if they took longer than a week and I was employing Eric.. he'd be looking for a new job right now
How to get the ai's to drive onyour track..
Make a LINE there ai should drive..
like in training lesson.. u see green when u can drive fast and red when u should brake..
and if u want to share ur tracks.. give over msn or here on the forum xD
Everytime this issue comes up something key is missed.
When you get an LFS licence you don't pay for a specific revision of the physics engine. You pay for content.
It makes no financial sense for the developers to open up to third party vehicles or environments at this stage, unless there was some fundamental shift in how things work.
Scawen has said previously that he was interested in the idea of modding, but said something vaguely about it being unlikely to happen until after S3. I'd imagine that this is for the very reason above. Perhaps the idea is to allow access to a modding engine in some part of the S3 licence, or some other additional modification licence.
Hey, im a member none the less, i PAYED for s2 unlike demoers so therefore im pretty sure i should be aloud a say about what i think. Thats just stupid if your not aloud to say your ideas because you havent driven far enough....
@Ian.H well their are people who want to drive their cars even though they have it in their garage, but then their are the younger people who cant drive? Who'd like to drive around in something that they want to get when their older.
And it seems that being able to make cars/tracks for lfs will come after S3, so im pretty happy as long as im not an old man when it comes out.
But in the mean time bring out some more cars and tracks :P
why not to just implement some additional options -of a reasonable level to mod or tune up the visual aspect of the car in order to add a slightly personal touch to it ? I believe this is not a priority for the developers at the moment. But seeing something to design / import yourself some parts like rims, windspoilers and some other minor tunning stuff would be a good idea.
The reason I said that you have no room to talk about being bored is because you haven't even run 90% of the S2 content. Sure, you might've done it offline but as the subtitle of LFS says, it's really designed for online play.
I accept you can complain just as well as anyone else, but that's like me complaining that I don't like the way any Ferrari's handle despite never having driven one.
Anyway, back on-topic.
As I keep saying (and this isn't my built-in track creation idea), the physics system is going to go through an assload of changes before LFS goes final, and each time there's an incompatible update, any mods would be instantly out of date and suddenly not perform how they should. That's a surefire way to piss off a whole load of modders who have already spent countless hours working on their baby.
And consider the new clutch heating issue. There's another variable each modded car would have to have added. Without it the mod is simply going to crash the program. And the same would happen with each upcoming feature. Tyre changes mean handling will be off, aero changes mean you risk having a car that has an aero model similar to a brick, improved damage modelling means you have a car that looks like it's artifacting when it gets hit - the list is almost endless.
Let the developers get all of the intended features in and working before you add yet more variables to the mix, huh?
I wasnt complaining, i was just suggesting that it would be better if you could make your own cars and tracks, but now reading what you said about the physics being changed and that alot of mods will get unsupported i agree that maybe modding should be left till later.
But somebody bug the admins to make a very hot looking, and powerful sports car
I can understand the thought of kids wanting to drive cars they'd like to own in the future.. I guess much the same as many even with driving licenses and cars like to drive the likes of F1 cars.. I just think it a little weird that if I have car XYZ sitting in my garage, why I'd like to drive that virtually too.
I enjoy driving a great deal.. whether I'm pushing the car hard or simply cruising along with some good music playing.. sitting in my room doing the same certainly doesn't give the same "satisfaction".
As for "hot high-powered sports cars".. there's already a few.. the FZ50 / LX6 for road going, and any of the GTRs for race-spec (or at least the XRR / FZR)
Their not hot or powerful enough
They are very hot and powerful.
But i want something more, i dont know if what i want would be realistic, im not to good with the tech about cars.
But i mean a car that is THE PERFECT car on the game, it should look stunning, like nearly rice, but not rice, for rice cars suck
And then it should have a very big engine under the hood able to do maybe 200mph+?
And that handles perfectly, no understeer or oversteer.
If what i say is not realistic, dont get angry at me because im suggesting it for i do not know what would be realistic.
Heh.. I guess that's really down to the individual and what they see. Personally I love the styling of the XRT, but I know many prefer more modern day looking cars
I don't know what the FZ50 reaches top-speed.. but I wouldn't have thought it too shy of 200mph.. the most restrictive part of this is the tracks.. they're not designed to test top-speeds as such (which is a good thing(tm) else they'd all be pretty much drag strips ).
I think your vision is somewhat unrealistic in the fact you want "perfect handling" as such (no understeer / oversteer). This simply can't be achieved.. but can be adjusted by way of setups to get something pretty neutral (not suggesting the FZ50 for this however!). I can't think of a car off hand that would have the handling that you're after.. even the likes of Enzos and other "hypercars" will either understeer or oversteer to some degree.. depending on setup, tyres and possibly more importantly, driving style.
Not knocking your vision, just hopefully explaining a bit as to why this is unrealistic (and no doubt, someone will correct me too on some bits)
200mph+ isn't unrealistic.. although quite rare if you're looking for a "street sports car" rather than a thoroughbred race car
To be honest im not really that bothered about new cars, but new (real life?) tracks is very important to me, i never get bored of the cars in LFS, but now ive raced every track config im a bit fed up of it.
In another thread ive just seen another monumental dose of 'its never going to happen' cynicism, for christ sake, lots of people want the ability to create tracks at least let alone cars, however theres those who seem to think they are supierior just because theyve been playing longer than some of us who just meet it with negativity straight away without reading peoples suggestions.
They just read the first line then say 'no way, I dont want mods I want it like this, I this, I that, its OUR sim not I!'
What Id like to see is the release of a track editor either with or after the release of S3.
Would you like to play a perfect plane in a flight simulator? Your description sounds like "Perfect plane, you know, you can turn and accelerate it instantly". True, that would be a really (over)powerful plane, but is it fun to fly it? It has same problems what is in NFS (My really humble opinion): No challenge (If car starts to oversteer in a corner, just hit the NOS and you straight it almost instantly /1/)...
The way mods are handled in the Halflife and especially HalfLife2 engine eliminates your "version" concerns. Clients download required content such as Car Models/Textures and Map (Track) data when they connect. This content is cached and is a one-time delay. A few years ago it was common to make the content available on a website which was probably a faster download then via the game server.
Actually this system is so well integrated into Halflife2 that Maps (tracks) and models (Cars) can't really be considered Mods; just different content hosted in the Vanilla-unmodified game environment. The server would have complete control over Vehicles used and Tracks available - the same way they do now.
And yes, people would occasionally jump on the random wacky server out of curiosity. If it's not fun people won't play it. The changes would be an Undertaking but if I was familiar with the code I bet I could hammer out something working in a couple weeks for fun. Unfortunately I'm not capable of reverse engineering anything sans source.
Ahah right, well you didnt knock my hopes of a perfect car Well not too much, lol.
But i remember yesterday i changed one of the f1 cars to all wheel drive and it was handling very well, well imo amazingly well, i was on the kyoto track, where its bassicly turning all the time, and normally in any car i cant stay in the lane im in, but with the f1 in AWD i could easily stay in my own lane.
So bassicly the f1 has the speed and the perfect handling all i think it needs is a different look, Make it look like one of the gtr's.
(I dont mean make a gtr f1 car, i mean make a car with the same performance as the f1 car, but in AWD and good looking)
Maybe this would be achievable?
).
In 2 years, Eric could have built at least 2 or 3 new complete track environments.. but alas, the lazy option was taken instead.
