I don't know what these people are complaining about, but from my standpoint, these cars do NOT have factory clutches! A factory clutch would cook even quicker under less abuse!

Case in point

I took the FXO with the RACE_S sertup to the drag strip, did a gear 2 FULL RPM launch (with boost), powershifted (that's where you don't lift off the gas while shifting) every gear, and at the end I had only a sliver of heat. HOW?!?!

Factory clutches are area rugs cut in a circle and glued to a metal plate! They don't like low RPM gear 2 launches, let alone a full RPM with boost launch out of a 240 horsepower engine, and then subsequent powershifts!

Quote from Impreza WRX :

I don't know what these people are complaining about, but from my standpoint, these cars do NOT have factory clutches! A factory clutch would cook even quicker under less abuse!

Case in point

I took the FXO with the RACE_S sertup to the drag strip, did a gear 2 FULL RPM launch (with boost), powershifted (that's where you don't lift off the gas while shifting) every gear, and at the end I had only a sliver of heat. HOW?!?!

Factory clutches are area rugs cut in a circle and glued to a metal plate! They don't like low RPM gear 2 launches, let alone a full RPM with boost launch out of a 240 horsepower engine, and then subsequent powershifts!

You should note that most, if not all, of the people who are complaining aren't old enough to drive yet.

I don't think anybody here actually knows the effects on a real clutch of flat shifting and the other things people are doing to make their clutch overheat because those of us who can drive IRL (or lucky enough to race) aren't quite that retarded

A lot of these people dont seem to realise how easy it is to cook a factory standard clutch. Just try some proper drag lane quick launches and your standard clutch is lucky to last one let alone two runs.

Someone on a Classic SAAB 900 forum showed a picture of what happens when a factory clutch meets a 5000 RPM launch! To say the least, the results were not pretty.

I did a few 5-5.5 k launches on my stock 85000 mile old miata clutch before I swapped it, still looks and works great...
perhaps the saab clutch quality isn't all that

i can do 4000rpm launches all day long and not have to worry about the clutch.

Quote :

did a gear 2 FULL RPM launch (with boost), powershifted (that's where you don't lift off the gas while shifting) every gear, and at the end I had only a sliver of heat. HOW?!?!

I know this is a really stupid question, and off topic, but what does that mean exactly?
(I don't know much about real driving, I intent to pick up bits on LFS though

The cars in LFS seem to have somewhat heat tolerant clutches. Better than the two cars from the videos shown in the how realistic is clutch overheating thread, not as good as a 1990 Ford Mustang GT where the clutch was slippped for about 30 seconds, smoked, and continued immediated to operate just fine (although it was probably the equivalent of 5000 miles of wear).

Conclusions about overheating from the other thread, overheating occurs from crashes or if accelerating from low speeds in high gears with autoclutch enabled.

Clutch overheating can occur if auto clutch is enabled and the car is accelerated from a low speed while in a tall gear, without any player clutch control inputs. I tested this with a LX6 and slowed to just under 10mph in 6th gear, which causes the auto-clutch to start slipping the clutch. Acceleration from this slow speed results in an immediage increase in rpm from 1000 rpm to 3000 rpm, and the clutch overheats. If autoclutch is off, clutch isn't allowed to slip and there is no clutch overheating.

Replay file: jrkrlx6ac.spr

Clutch overheating can occur after the clutch is damaged from collisions, and then is used afterwards. I tested by running in reverse at Kyoto Ring, and ramming into the AI. After the crash, attempting to accelerate overheated the apparently damaged clutch. When online in multiplayer mode, the variation in lag can amplify the apparent impact speed and the clutch bar can go red instantly. I didn't make a replay of this.

Full throttle upshifts and no throttle downshifts with auto-clutch do not cause significant clutch overheating if the upshifts are done at or near redline and the downshifts are done at slow speeds.

Replay file: jrbllx6.spr

update - Spins do not cause clutch overeheating in LFS (or real life). I ran the LX6 and the FO8 at Kyoto Ring, and did spins at 140mph or more, even brushing walls to increase the severity of spins. No clutch overheating. My guess about the "myth" of clutch overeheating due to spins, is that the driver may forget to downshift and attempt to take off while still in a high gear.

Quote from Osco :

I did a few 5-5.5 k launches on my stock 85000 mile old miata clutch before I swapped it, still looks and works great...
perhaps the saab clutch quality isn't all that

Same. I had a 99 miata that I used to autocross atleast once a month for a couple of years. I launched it pretty hard every time and never had any issues.. In between autox's I didn't exactly drive it like a granny either. Stock clutch... 50,000 hard miles. Yet, with the FBM, if I spin out on the second lap, rev it pretty high, and attempt to spin around, I'll burn out the clutch instantly. Is it because I don't push in the clutch when I go into a spin (dont have a button mapped)? Shouldn't the car just stall without causing much damage?

Then again... I drive my RX-8 alot more conservatively and I think I burned the clutch a bit last month just trying to get out a snowy driveway

I have a stupid question. If you have auto-clutch on and just lightly apply the throttle in 1st gear, LFS keeps the clutch slightly engaged. Yet, there does not seem to be any detrimental effects. I tried driving around for a few minutes like this and nothing appeared to happen.

So I'm guessing "riding the clutch" for several minutes does nowhere near the same amount of damage as one ~5000rpm clutch dump?

Be serious: Why should anyone use factory default clutches in races? Same reason that they don't use default brakes.

Ceramic brakes & clutches tolerate much more heat.

Quote from Technique :

So I'm guessing "riding the clutch" for several minutes does nowhere near the same amount of damage as one ~5000rpm clutch dump?

AFAIK there's no clutch damage, just clutch temperature, and this could explain this behaviour.

Clutch damage can occur from crashes. Try running Kyoto ring the wrong way and ramming the AI cars, then try taking of again.

Real world cars with weak clutches

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiawKn8T_X4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz7emjoQm60

Real world car without the clutch issue: The full throttle before clutch release shifts on this Caterham don't seem to hurt it at all

donny2005.wmv from http://www.jackals-forge.com/lotus


I already mentioned a 1990 Ford Mustang GT where the clutch was spun for over 30 seconds (backing up a steep hill), and there was no noticable effect (probably a lot of clutch wear).

So to answer the original question, the clutches in LFS are more prone to slippage and overheating than most, but not all cars (at least the ones I'm aware of). Crashes and low speed acceleration in a high gear with autoclutch on the main causes of clutch overheating in LFS; the other causes would be stuff like clutch kicking as when drifting.

Quote from NathanRx-7 :

I know this is a really stupid question, and off topic, but what does that mean exactly?
(I don't know much about real driving, I intent to pick up bits on LFS though

- Car is stopped
- Engage Neutral Gear
- Full Throttle
- Engage 2nd Gear
- Shift gears without lifting the throttle (AKA Flatshift/Powershift) to Top Gear

Again, a stupid question, but what exactly does the throttle do?

Quote from NathanRx-7 :

Again, a stupid question, but what exactly does the throttle do?

ROFLMAO

Elaborate more please.

Quote from NathanRx-7 :

Again, a stupid question, but what exactly does the throttle do?

Makes your vehicle go forward, sometimes backwards and too often sideways if you don't pay attention.

Quote from NathanRx-7 :

Again, a stupid question, but what exactly does the throttle do?

It allows more air fuel mixture to enter each piston of the engine.

Thats an actual answer, not "bah you don't know anything", like the other posts. People need to be more helpful some times.

Quote from Impreza WRX :

.........

Most of the problems with burning the clutch is caused by auto clutch, not the simulated clutch.

Quote from legoflamb :

It allows more air fuel mixture to enter each piston of the engine.

Thats an actual answer, not "bah you don't know anything", like the other posts.

erm....unless its a diesel

The whining about these clutches is way overrated. I have no clue specifically how these clutches are implemented, but it just isn't that bad.

In real life, you will have a lot of variation as some have pointed out. Some stock configurations can happily take one redline launch after another while another car may be unusable after one or two until things cool. It depends on how beefy the manufacturer made the clutch system relative to the car. It could be that the LFS cars are running some sort of ceramic sport clutch. Who knows. It's very similar with brakes. Stock organic pads overheat easily. A simple step to ceramic drastically changes the capability.


Having driven real cars for some time, having been raised on and owning manual transmission cars, and having done some sport level driving in real life as well, I see no real problems with the LFS system, nothing that screams fix me. I'm sure people could argue one way or another about heat up, dissipation, wear, etc., but in reality cars vary a LOT. We can't exactly pick one, exact configuration and say it's perfect. We just aim for something in the middle and call it good enough or at least a relatively accurate representation of the real thing. You can't expect much else without breaking down every single LFS car into it's parts and essentially engineering each car from scratch with a particular goal in mind like real manufacturers do when they build new cars. That just won't happen in a game environment. There are no design goals, budgets, material choices, and build specs to each car.

I haven't driven a car for ten years now, and I still haven't managed to overheat a clutch (without deliberately trying) in LFS. What are these people doing?

Quote from Gekkibi :

Makes your vehicle go forward, sometimes backwards and too often sideways if you don't pay attention.

Great answer from a forum newbie. You might be the first person on the forum we actually appreciate from Tampere, Finland.

:hide:

Quote from Polyracer :

erm....unless its a diesel

Giving a diesel more throttle doesn't allow more air fuel mixture into the engine?

How does that work?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Great answer from a forum newbie. You might be the first person on the forum we actually appreciate from Tampere, Finland.
:hide:

Hah, that was a good one

Quote from legoflamb :

Giving a diesel more throttle doesn't allow more air fuel mixture into the engine?

How does that work?

No my friend, I did not say that

Your answer was correct for a petrol engine, in as much as when you press the pedal you open an air valve to allow the engine more air.
With a diesel you open the fuel valve to give the engine more fuel.

Obviously both have a similar effect = more power.