Me and my poor brains

I raced on CTRA today, made a clean pass on last lap and defended position on last corner. After the race I get a comment 'nice blocking btw'. Now, I know the rules on defensive driving and I didnt drive against the rules, so I understood it as a negative comment and told him it was infact NOT blocking.

Later on, I read the rules section again on ctra and suprised to see blocking word in defensive driving part. Now, I don't know if the comment made meant GJ or FU If he meant the first one, I feel like a complete idiot for talking rubbish.

So did I get it wrong when I understand blocking as beeing a dirty bastard who drives against the rules and defensive driving as the correct term? Because.. I am sure as hell not the only one who has these words mixed up. I have seen many times the blocking word used as a negative comment on drivers.

Oh yes, I can see the upcoming misunderstanding in conversations;

racer:"You were blocking me!"
me:"Of course"
racer:"eh?"
..
..
pine-fin kicked

me:"goddamn it.."

Here you go. 3 angles; air-my view-his view

The car in front should only be allowed to change its driving line once before a corner. If you simply covered the inside thats fine. If you swerved across the road several times to stop him getting beside you thats blocking. Although it could be different on CTRA.

Some extract from the Gentlefoot challenge rules, these rules seem very fair enough to me anyway. Hope you don't mind me posting this GF.

Section 2 – On Track Conduct

2.1 Always avoid contact with another driver and give him room. Never move off the racing line if it will result in contact.
2.2 If you attempt a pass on another driver, give him opportunity to see you coming and ensure you have adequate overlap.
2.3 If a driver attempts a pass on you and has sufficient overlap you must leave space for them at the apex.
2.4 When defending a pass from another driver you are only allowed to switch position across the track once. Swerving from one side of the track and back again will result in penalties.
2.5 When recovering back on track after an incident cars already on track have the right of way over you. Anyone pulling back on track into the path of another car will be penalised.
2.6 When recovering from a spin you must give way to cars already proceeding on track.
2.7 If you damage your car to the point where it is hard to control, on the way back to the pits you MUST avoid getting in other cars way or creating debris on track i.e. hitting tyre barriers that could result in compromising another drivers race. If that means crawling along the grass for the best part of a lap then that is what you must do.
2.10 When exiting your pit box you must ensure you do not make contact with any car already travelling down the pit lane.


Edit added extract from CTRA rules which I guess are more relevant:

4.0 Blocking/Defending
You may move once per track segment (between two corners) to block an overtaking manoeuvre (defend position). Additionally, you may also return to your line after that manoeuvre. You may make no futher moves to block until the next track segment. If a driver has attained a measure of overlap (eg. you did not move far enough to successfully block, were tricked by a bluff/switch-back, etc), you may consider your blocking manoeuvre to have failed and must allow room for that car on the track.

It was FE1R and I passed in the shicane, and HELD left side of the road all the way in to the corner.

Quote from pine-fin :

'nice blocking btw'

It was probably meant as a negative - but blocking if done properly (and fairly) is part of good tactics and racecraft.

Quote from AlienT. :

4.0 Blocking/Defending
You may move once per track segment (between two corners) to block an overtaking manoeuvre (defend position). Additionally, you may also return to your line after that manoeuvre.

Don't understand this. The one-move rule explicitly means that you can zig, and zig a bit more if you like, but not zig-zag. Returning to the side of the track which you vacated to defend another side is two moves in anyone's book.

Blocking is such a negative word for it, i always write "Nice driving", or "Damn you and your fat ass!"

The way I'm reading this, is that you had the inside and also had good overlap on the other driver. The line you took meant that you needed to slow to below what would be considered 'normal speed' for the chicane to get through without crashing. The driver on the outside would have been able to carry more speed on his line, but was prevented by the position of your car.

I'm pretty sure this is described as a 'block pass' and is perfectly fair in my eyes if the above is true.

I had a look at it, and I would have done the same thing. I didn't find any problems with that at all, I'd be cursing for my own mistake that cost me that position .

I only block when I can hold off someone without wrecking them. Else I just let them pass.

Quote from BigDave2967 :

I had a look at it, and I would have done the same thing. I didn't find any problems with that at all, I'd be cursing for my own mistake that cost me that position .

I know I didnt drive against the rules, but is this blocking or defensive driving? Im confused about the terms and if I say 'I blocked you on purpose' (just like in the video, I drove on purpose on the left side so he couldnt pass on the inside) they will just ban or kick me and say "You cant block, its not allowed!"

You did nothing wrong Pine-fin.

As long as the driver did not have any overlap you can defend like that.

If he was even a little bit up the side of you that would be considered blocking and isn't tolerated, but you only defended your position and were right to do so. The other driver should have let off to avoid contact.

Sam is looking at adjusting the regs so blocking and defending are differentiated.

Quote from pine-fin :

I know I didnt drive against the rules, but is this blocking or defensive driving? Im confused about the terms and if I say 'I blocked you on purpose' (just like in the video, I drove on purpose on the left side so he couldnt pass on the inside) they will just ban or kick me and say "You cant block, its not allowed!"

I'd say defensive driving. For me, blocking is when someone is deliberately weaving left and right on the track when you are trying to make a pass. Defending, is when you stick to your defending line, (staying on the inside line of a corner instead of your usual racing line would be an example) defending your position, making it difficult for the driver behind you to get past.

Just saw your video - didn't notice the link before - it looks like a totally legit move to me. There was no actual direct blocking, it's not like you swerved out of your line on a straight or something - you just connected your normal line to a more defensive one. Makes sense.

I would call it a good move
Well done!

Quote from Mille Sabords :

I would call it a good move
Well done!

I know, the pass was so sexy, it was the last lap and all..

Definitely defensive driving. I'd also understand blocking as defensive driving not by the rules.

Quote from On Track Conduct :

2.4 When defending a pass from another driver you are only allowed to switch position across the track once. Swerving from one side of the track and back again will result in penalties.

Does that still count if you are trying to get the guy out of your draft? I have a move that works most of the time. You do a slight move to one side and immediatelly to the other side. The guy behind you trying to get a draft will go to the first side, but most of the time he will not expect a harder turn in the opposite side and he lost the draft. An attempt to correct will make him slower and loose a chance to draft. I guess that's allowed since you're not obstructing him?

Quote from kurent :

Does that still count if you are trying to get the guy out of your draft? I have a move that works most of the time. You do a slight move to one side and immediatelly to the other side. The guy behind you trying to get a draft will go to the first side, but most of the time he will not expect a harder turn in the opposite side and he lost the draft. An attempt to correct will make him slower and loose a chance to draft. I guess that's allowed since you're not obstructing him?

So you are making sudden moves on front of a approaching car. Yeah that's a good idea.

Quote from lefty :

So you are making sudden moves on front of a approaching car. Yeah that's a good idea.

I think he's making a perfectly acceptable move, - this is not the same as blocking a pass because he is preventing tha following car from getting a passing opportunity.

Once the pass is on though - you cannot swerve from side to side to prevent it.
You can occupy a line that makes it harder to overtake, even if it is not quite the racing line.

Quote from Polyracer :

I think he's making a perfectly acceptable move, - this is not the same as blocking a pass because he is preventing tha following car from getting a passing opportunity.

Once the pass is on though - you cannot swerve from side to side to prevent it.
You can occupy a line that makes it harder to overtake, even if it is not quite the racing line.

How is swerving on a race track a good idea, ever?

Besides it makes the passing / racing near impossible for the car behind. Would you trust on someone in front of you making irratic movements left and right as you aproach him?

That's what it is all about, making yourself predictable. There might not be just one car behind you etc.

Defensive driving - choosing an "off" line to the racing line to prevent someone from getting on the inside to pass.

Blocking - deliberately moving across the track from the normal racing line to block an approaching vehicle preparing to pass.

In the defensive driving, you are not crossing the track, you are choosing a different line. Perfectly legitimate. With blocking, you are leaving the racing line to force an approaching car to slow down. The one move to block rule is pretty much the norm, and it is expected not to happen if the approaching car already has overlap, thus you must concede the line. Most rules state that you can move over to block either only once, or you can move over, then over more, then over more, but once you move back to the racing line, you can not move over to block again. Moving over to block, back to the line, then over to block a 2nd time is the swerving or zig-zag moving that is not allowed with most rulings.

The move shown here in the original post is perfectly legal and legitimate. That was defensive driving as he chose to hold the inside lane to prevent a passing attempt.

I like defensive driving. I don't like any type of blocking, even the "move once" rule. It's just too risky with computer sim racing as you can not see everywhere around your car. If there is any overlap, not just significant overlap, results in both cars crashed out.

Quote from lefty :

How is swerving on a race track a good idea, ever?
Besides it makes the passing / racing near impossible for the car behind. Would you trust on someone in front of you making irratic movements left and right as you aproach him?
That's what it is all about, making yourself predictable. There might not be just one car behind you etc.

If you need to get benefit from the draft in order to get into an overtaking position, then you are not yet in a position where the car in fronts movement is dangerous.
Once you have managed to get close enough and are about to make the pass then the leading car should not move from side to side as this is obviously dangerous.
The leading car can place himself slightly offline though, to make the overtaking car go the long way round to make the pass.

I have seen hundreds of examples of this and no one complains of blocking.

I would really like to see some video of tintop racing, especially about blocking/defensive driving so we beginners can learn too. And also I would like to see this 'shake the drafter' by kurent