Well, I stopped driving on LFS for a while. I really got frustated seing that ppl are exploiting physics faults (not only aero.... I've NEVER seen a DTM or similar "gtr" car with locked differential), and to be competitive, you need to follow the same way.
This is making LFS unrealistic, and made me loose interest on LFS for a while. Surelly when a new patch is released I will try it as soon as I can, but for now, I stopped with LFS.
I hope that the situation get better, because I someway like the way that things are on LFS (a simulator really focused on physics and multi player, and without comercial pressures), but it can't be a excuse to close our eyes to other offerings on this market or to let the bugs the way they are now for a long time.
Indeed that does get frustrating. Countless times I wonder why I just can't keep up with JOE BLOW, so he offers me setup, and I try it only to see how ridiculous the setup is... And the cars behave very oddly with the exploited setups too, I just don't like driving them, mentally I can't justify it.
It's true.. I never race TBOs anymore, not when the FXO is that much faster.
It's a different issue, but the same kind of issue.
But I don't incessantly gripe about it; it's a waste of one's time to focus on something that, effectively, one can not do anything about, and of others' to reread the same rant over and over.
We know a patch is coming, that it's fixing physics.. what's to complain about?
I don't think the FXO dominates as much as it did in S-1. In fact on the shorter tracks the class is a bit more equal.
AS far as locked diffs go..... I swithched a RAC set-up from Viscous to locked
and after a few laps, noticed a signifigant improvement in lap times. As I'm
slow I don't know if the diff helped all that much or if I got better on the track
through repetitions. but it didn't seem like an Unrealistic increase.
I don't know about the GTR's and different diffs. Oh well, it'll get fixed I guess.
I've barely played S1. I've only now tried out the FXO, since racing FWDs never had any appeal to me, and the difference in performance with the Xracing tank and racing boat4 is just night and day, to me.
A function's rate of change says nothing about its absolute value.. The TBO isn't equal, anymore than the FXR leads the GTR class on enough of the tracks to be considered an equal participant.
Is it just me who find the sound in rfactor. and some other sampled-sounds sim's, to not be very good?
I mean, in the car. hearing the engine it doesn't sound like there's an engine shaking around making lots of noise, it sounds like you're listening to a hifi recording of an engine made in a zero-echo environment, with an $8,000 microphone, mixed and mastered, coming thru headphones.
I personally think rfactor sounds kinda like this with added layers of broken washing machine noises.
IMO, that is not an excuse to a physics fault. The non-locked diffs should be better than the locked one.
Yes, we know that a patch is comming, but we don't have any idea when it's gonna be released. Maybe 1 month, 6 months, 2 years..... I know that software developing usually takes more time than we think that it will get, but they could at least give us a idea, or what they plan to fix on the next patch. They don't said even if they plan to release a patch before the S2 final. It's reasonable that they will release at least one beta version, but again, we don't know how far they want to go on the next patch, and right now we don't need so big changes to get the fun with LFS again.
Ok that lot of changes on physics through sucessive patch releases on short periods is not nice, but it's not nice also when there are bugs for so long time, that ppl start to discover and use exploits. LFS is a SIMULATOR, so riding unrealistic bug-exploiting setups shouldn't be a reality.
I quit it since 3 weeks ago, and I don't miss LFS as it is today at all.
tbh no other game beats LFS in my books. To me it seems you like the ISI approach of the easiest way possible. I just love how the LFS devs are setting new standards and aren't taking the easy way out. They could have easily left us with solid tyres but they didn't. They gave us a fantastic looking flexing tyre model and also a great simulation of a tyre. The same goes for the damage model. They could just have made bits randomly fall off but they didn't they yet again took the longer approach. To me this shows a heck load of dedication and at the same time they keep moving the goal posts. As far as I've exprienced LFS' FF beats anyother game. You just get so much information and you can tell what the car is doing.
Okay sounds are something which could be worked on but hearing some sample which doesn't relate to what the car is doing doesn't simulate it properly for me. That is the past in my books.
Physics bugs exist in LFS but they are the same for everybody.
Mogar I really can't see your point. The LFS devs are working hard on this project and we know that down to there dedication. This is their project and they can run it as they want. I myself like the surprise of finding a new patch with some added features or fixes which I didn't know about. It's called a surprise. Maybe your someone who must know whats going to happen next ?? I take LFS as it comes. For me it's the best £24 I've spent and if you look at it the amount of hours I've spent on LFS probaly would have cost me £100s with other racing "sims"
I don't know why people keep moaning about the way LFS is being developed. Why did they put money into the project in the first place if they didn't like the way it's being developed. I know for a fact Scawen said somewhere he hates these sort of threads so why are people continuing to distract him from work Let him code away or finish his kitchen.
LFS is still the only simulator that makes me feel connected with the car, although I must admit that I didn't try GTL or GTR (I'm going to do that).
The sound system also is good, although I think that Scawen is not using a sound system with a flat response for reference, since on a flat system (my headphones are reasonably flat, and I don't use equalizers), it lacks too much mid-bass and bass (or maybe the low frequencies are not properly simulated yet). But playing with LFS mekanik you can see how big is the potential for the sound system (if you put a 5 cylinder engine, it sounds like a 5 cylinder engine, if you put a v10 engine, it sounds like a v10 engine, with limitations of course).
Everything on LFS seems to be in the right way, although are not on a good state right now. The graphics are clean, efficient, without some tricks that some games use that make them look too cartoonish, although they lack a proper illumination system, the sounds are good, although they need some refinement and sound more "warm" and need a better crash sounds, and the physics are good, although the differentials and aerodynamics are flawed right now (although the differential problem may be related to a bug on tyre modeling as Scawen said before).
But as I say,we paid for the potential, but we want someday the finished product. Ok, I don't want to push the devs to release a patch with hundreds of bugs, but what I want is something to clarify what we are the next improvements that we are going to see on next patch, and if it will be released before next year or so..... Something more short or medium term.
I support someway the way that LFS is being developed, but what make me frustrated someway is the long period without patches or any information about the development state, like they did before. We had almost 1 progress report a month, and now, I forgot when we had any news about the development state or when the last patch was released (without counting the language patches).
Ok, they needed a break, no problem with that, but the way that the community here is acting makes them very confortable. Anyone that wants information about the development progress gets almost flamed by the strong supporters. So they don't feel the need to keep us informed, or give us any patch.
[edit]
I've just checked, the last physics update (Patch P2) that we had was on 7th August, Almost 6 months ago, and until then, almost no news about the development. Quite a long time.
[editing again]
Well, Patch P2 was fully compatible with patch P (same physics), that was released on 25th June 2005
I believe that the paranoids have sufficient reasons to believe that the development process of LFS is gonna be stopped, or at least S2 final is going to be what we have today, and we will have to wait for S3 to get the aerodynamics and the other bugs fixed.
We all know that the costs to live in England are pretty high, and LFS is someway cheap and have a small number of licensed drivers.
The latest language patches are the kind of thing that is on the last lines of the to do list, something that is done before releasing an almost finished product.
So, there is a possibility that devs are doing the last touches to give LFS an aspect of a finished product, give us a last patch with minor updates on physics and abandon the LFS project or at least, abandon S2 and leave all other updates to S3, since they are probably not making sufficient money from LFS, and they are stuck on S2 development for quite a long time (so they need to go to S3 to make more money to live, or even the money from the ppl that are waiting S2 final to buy the license).
And I bet that they thought that the number of licensed drivers would be much higher than it actually is.
I agree that the language crap shouldn't have been released at this time but Scawen also said that in the beginning it wasn't a big deal but then the language code just got bigger and bigger somehow. Altough it took "only" a month to make it... but if that time was just put to the physics issues.
Well, well, well, the same old talk (past?) here again and again.
The way the things are done, the hard way the devs choose to go in, the marvelous sound engine even sounds bad, the fantastic tyres modelling even with grip bugs and blablabla.
Ok.
I agree with all that things, but I do not blind myself to other new good stuffs in the market.
The way many people here talk, it looks like Scawen and his comrades are the unique in the world that knows how to build a good simulator, but as himself has said around, they are learning how to do the things.
They know just a few about cars, they never got in a race car, they are studing physics book yet, they started this project with no big intentions, and they will be thankful if they had a chance to try real race cars in real race tracks, to get real feedback from real situations and compare with their algorithms, different from any other experimented teams, such as ISI and SIMBIN that have many more people working together, and have support from experimented programmers and designers, and real pilots and real race teams.
For me odes not matter what goes inside the code, cause my contact with the game is the wheel and the pedals, and the look and the sound, and those are better now in other games.
I'm not saying that Scawen doesn't know what he is doing, but please, don't talk that he is going through the unique right way, cause if you would compare base to base, he is one of the less qualified between race programmers around this sim community.
They have a good idea, and good intentions, they work hard, and they are honest people. I'm not trying to hurt the Scavier image. But you all stop with this ridiculous and too old argument that ISI and SIMBIN and others has made a not good enough work cause the system they code their game is other.
They work hard too, and they don't stop for six months for their kitchens issues.
I'm just asking for a progress report. They are not obligate to. But stop talking that old bullshit, cause 4 years is too much time in my calendar.
I've create, about one year ago, a term to define the feeling that LFS cause me when driving: LFSensation.
That is cause I couldn't feel so connected to any other game as I feel in LFS, and i couldn't explain that feeling, so that definition.
But, to feel connected is one thing, and to feel you are driving a real car is other thing.
Before it wasn't so critical, but now, everyone is using locked diffs and high nose. So, it's not a simulator anymore.
Ok, I also got tired from moaning, but I also got tired with this buggy physics that we are using since 7 months ago without a single update (if I'm not wrong, we had never passed through a such long period without updates on LFS physics).
On the old days, we had much more news and updates, that was almost impossible to go with buggy sets, since at least each 2 or 3 months a new physics patch was released. Now the physics system got so old, that although it can give a realistic feel, the sets that ppl are using to be fast is making LFS looks more like an arcade game than a simulator.
If the way that it's been developed was intended to create the best simulator ever, but for now, it failed on it's goals.
Ok, the situation is not better with GTL, that I tried and didn't like too much. LFS without bug exploiting setups is better, but using them you are not competitive, so it lost it's sense...
I prefer much more a simple patch that do a workaround for the aero and diff bugs for now than later a bigger "flawless" patch 8 months from now.
Just to clarify, I'm not against on the way that LFS is being developed, but on the way that we are absolutely without know what the devs are doing and without any updates on the engine.
IMO, with a little work the fun with LFS could be restored, at least for me.
Let us all do this, and Scawen will never feel the need to update LFS and loose members from this community, and only the hardcore fans will continue playing LFS (and the number of S3 licensed drivers can fall considerably).
LFS already has a small market, and it can not survive only from the hardcore fans, and it's good that Scawen don't forget this.
Let him code away or finish his kitchen. 