Quote from lizardfolk :

I know that the banking is not the direct factor in Schumacher's concussion. I do know that this kind of impact that normally results in heavy injury is very common on ovals or banked turns because of the nature of these turns.

It's mostly a case of the wall being right at the edge of the racing surface I think. The banking itself actually slows the car down (minutely, anyways) on it's travel towards a wall.

Quote :

Any BTW IRL is still IRL or IndyCar. I dont believe they have merged yet

No merger, yet, but IRL changed their name. I think it's 'The Indycar Series' now, but I can't remember. It was done in the same year that CART re-badged itself to the 'Champ Car World Series.'

[edit]

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Incidentally: Some of you from outside the UK might not know who Max Mosley's dad was. Just in case you'd ever thought to yourself "Surely he can't really be this much of a crook...".

So he's the son of a fascist. That's not a suprise to me, at all, really. Makes quite a bit of sense.

Quote from MAGGOT :

It's mostly a case of the wall being right at the edge of the racing surface I think. The banking itself actually slows the car down (minutely, anyways) on it's travel towards a wall.

The banking actually allows the car to carry more speed through the corners then lets say an unbanked turn with the same degree. But you're right, on ovals or oval turns there's absolutely nothing to help slow down the car once something like that happens. It's the main reason why most ovals are so dangerous.

Quote from MR_B :

Maybe, but looking at the facts here, 5 people have died in the past decade, in Formula One no one has been killed.

Dale Earnhardt at Daytona, February 18, 2001 (Daytona 500)
Tony Roper at Texas Motor Speedway, October 13,2000
Kenny Irwin at Louden, New Hampshire, July 7, 2000
Adam Petty at Louden, New Hampshire May 12, 2000
John Nemechek at Homestead, Florida in 1997

If a formula one chassis was to have a crash on these American oval circuits, how would the vehicle fair? Is it fair to say they would have a higher survival rate than nascar?

I would have thought so, especially considering a NASCAR chassis is merely a tubular space frame :-\

and how many years has it been since 2001~?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Of course it's safer - they don't race in the rain being the total pansies NASCAR drivers are, and Coulthard is scared of water.

Actually they used to have rain tires at the road courses. Until 2003, when they stopped because they had very few opportunities to use them.

The Craftsman Truck Series was the first series to ever have a official session in the rain, while practicing for the Watkins Glen race in 2000 (?).

Quote from Bumpdrafter :

Actually they used to have rain tires at the road courses. Until 2003, when they stopped because they had very few opportunities to use them.

The Craftsman Truck Series was the first series to ever have a official session in the rain, while practicing for the Watkins Glen race in 2000 (?).

Very good bumpdrafter I know Boris Said is very angry at that decision. But NASCAR officials will be NASCAR officials :rolleyes: Not too different from FIA's disaster with the USGP (although the whole provision/rain tires rule wasn't nearly as big or upsetting as FIA's USGP decision)

Edited: It was in 1999 when the trucks practiced in the rain at Watkins Glen: http://www.nascar.com/2003/new ... /09/darby_rain/index.html FYI Tristan NASCAR drivers has never really had a problem racing in the rain. In fact quite a few have requested it. So dont give hollow insults

I thought they had rain during a practice session in Japan several years back when they did an exhibition race there? (94, to commemorate the games in Nagano IIRC?) I recall seeing a picture of Earnhardt's stars and stripes Chevy with a windshield wiper fitted even.

It was 98, or 97. The Suzuka Thunder Special 200. The tyres they had there were hand-grooved at Goodyear's factory in England, about 300 of them.

Quote from lizardfolk :

FYI Tristan NASCAR drivers has never really had a problem racing in the rain. In fact quite a few have requested it. So dont give hollow insults

He just likes 'getting people's goat' and intentionally says things to piss people off about NASCAR because he knows it's a sore spot for people. Generally he's a really smart guy but when it comes to NASCAR his IQ tends to drop...

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

Generally he's a really smart guy

I find that hard to believe...

Currently his comments are no better than atlantian. In fact, based on a careful analysis of his comments that I've read...I'd say he lacks cognitive reasoning.

HOWEVER, I doubt he cares about how other perceive him, and it is unfortunate for someone in my position to constantly have to deal with this massive barrage of ignorant comments/insults. But life moves on

Quote from lizardfolk :

HOWEVER, I doubt he cares about how other perceive him, and it is unfortunate for someone in my position to constantly have to deal with this massive barrage of ignorant comments/insults. But life moves on

cry mich ein river
stop with the silly victimhood card already man up and throw his comments right back in his face because thats exactly what he wants... the more you dont the more outrageous his comments will become

Quote from lizardfolk :

I find that hard to believe...

Currently his comments are no better than atlantian. In fact, based on a careful analysis of his comments that I've read...I'd say he lacks cognitive reasoning.

HOWEVER, I doubt he cares about how other perceive him, and it is unfortunate for someone in my position to constantly have to deal with this massive barrage of ignorant comments/insults. But life moves on

Someone in your position? What position is that? Weirdest Dresser-up-in-animal-costumes Oval nutter?

Say all you like about ovals, but rain won't make it more dangerous at all. Cars will be going slower, impacts will be lower energy, and only proper fans (rather than beer-swilling morons most attendees probably are) will bother going to watch. In fact, they should ONLY run in the rain, and postpone in the dry!!!

May I ask exactly what careful analysis you did? Perhaps you undertook some form of survey comparing my writing style with hundreds of other people. Or maybe you wrote a bullshit sentence to try and make yourself look clever? Well, it failed. If you are going to try and ridicule me (and I don't mind ridicule per se, I even dish it out to myself most of the time), then try not to look like a prick whilst you do it

Edit: See, Shotglass got in a decent ridicule to which I have no comeback. I look silly, he looks clever. You, unfortunately, failed, so I win

shameless self quote comming up

Quote from Shotglass :

the more you dont the more outrageous his comments will become

Quote from tristancliffe :

In fact, they should ONLY run in the rain, and postpone in the dry!!!

i rest my case

Quote from tristancliffe :

Weirdest Dresser-up-in-animal-costumes Oval nutter?

He doesn't dress up in animal costumes. He just... sympathises... with lizards. Something like that anyway - I never did figure out the point of that thread. He doesn't bum squirrels either, from what I can gather.

didnt he say that he fancies them but isnt quite out yet? a closet lizard bummer

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

I was thinking the same thing, not to mention cable television which broadcast most races

Quote from lizardfolk :

You underestimate people's will to search for something that's not originally given to them

Not that this has anything to do with anything, but NASCAR is on a terrestrial pay channel. And it sucks. AND it's the fault of the americans; (I'll explain) Since no-one cares about it, there's no commentary in finnish. It's simply the same show you watch in the states. The problem with this is that you have commercial brakes and we don't. So not only the commentary halts, but for some reason the cameramen go for a coffee brake (cause apparently the video broadcast of the entire event is done by the broadcasting tv station), and all we get are crappy onboard footage and a helicopter view of the track.

Quote from hyntty :

Not that this has anything to do with anything, but NASCAR is on a terrestrial pay channel. And it sucks. AND it's the fault of the americans; (I'll explain) Since no-one cares about it, there's no commentary in finnish. It's simply the same show you watch in the states. The problem with this is that you have commercial brakes and we don't. So not only the commentary halts, but for some reason the cameramen go for a coffee brake (cause apparently the video broadcast of the entire event is done by the broadcasting tv station), and all we get are crappy onboard footage and a helicopter view of the track.

I bet with you that 200% of the US NASCAR fans would prefer to have your coverage .

Quote from tristancliffe :

Someone in your position? What position is that? Weirdest Dresser-up-in-animal-costumes Oval nutter?

Correction I never did dress up as a lizard (I find that quite idiotic really)

Quote from tristancliffe :

Say all you like about ovals, but rain won't make it more dangerous at all. Cars will be going slower, impacts will be lower energy, and only proper fans (rather than beer-swilling morons most attendees probably are) will bother going to watch. In fact, they should ONLY run in the rain, and postpone in the dry!!!

I see we have here a difference in opinion. But since you are adamant on being single minded on this factor, I'll just hold my tongue. I however do find it odd that you would consider this "rain condition" to be almost sacred. I personally find it a bit overrated. I personally would like to watch cars "go full speed" than "creep around in the rain"

Also tristan, there's one thing you can't counter. What do you propose we do about the giant mist that'll be generated from running in the rain on an oval?

Quote from tristancliffe :

May I ask exactly what careful analysis you did? Perhaps you undertook some form of survey comparing my writing style with hundreds of other people. Or maybe you wrote a bullshit sentence to try and make yourself look clever? Well, it failed. If you are going to try and ridicule me (and I don't mind ridicule per se, I even dish it out to myself most of the time), then try not to look like a prick whilst you do it

Correction again Tristan, that was pretty far from me trying to "ridicule" you. In fact if you carefully look at what I wrote it's quite sarcastic and slightly whimsical. Maybe the lack of smilies was my blunder and I'll carefully "mark" my comments next time just for you to understand tristan

Quote from Shotglass :

cry mich ein river
stop with the silly victimhood card already man up and throw his comments right back in his face because thats exactly what he wants... the more you dont the more outrageous his comments will become

You ruin all the fun Must you be a wet blanket everywhere you tread?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Edit: See, Shotglass got in a decent ridicule to which I have no comeback. I look silly, he looks clever. You, unfortunately, failed, so I win

Failed? Yes, quite obviously considering that you didn't understand my statement :rolleyes: But upon reading it again, I do admit I sounded whiny. Still, the original motivation can still be found if you look hard enough

Quote from lizardfolk :

Correction I never did dress up as a lizard (I find that quite idiotic really)

Whatever. I knew it was something perverted and deranged involving excessive fondness for animals.

Quote from lizardfolk :

I see we have here a difference in opinion. But since you are adamant on being single minded on this factor, I'll just hold my tongue. I however do find it odd that you would consider this "rain condition" to be almost sacred. I personally find it a bit overrated. I personally would like to watch cars "go full speed" than "creep around in the rain"

But lowering the grip of the cars, so that driver skill becomes important (unlike most dry running oval racing) does make it more exciting. However, my joke about dry running being banned was silly (as I'm sure you could tell).

Quote from lizardfolk :

Also tristan, there's one thing you can't counter. What do you propose we do about the giant mist that'll be generated from running in the rain on an oval?

What about it? Just leave it. It'll be refreshing for the spectators I guess...

Quote from lizardfolk :

Correction again Tristan, that was pretty far from me trying to "ridicule" you. In fact if you carefully look at what I wrote it's quite sarcastic and slightly whimsical. Maybe the lack of smilies was my blunder and I'll carefully "mark" my comments next time just for you to understand tristan

It's not very sarcastic at all. Or, indeed, whimsical. But if you are making tongue in cheek comments then silly smilies might be appropriate for you if you can't get the point across in words.

I have yet to see any decent explanation for non running in the wet. I shall keep looking and keep waiting for it. I doubt there will be one other than 'because they just don't okay, leave us alone!'

Quote from tristancliffe :

Whatever. I knew it was something perverted and deranged involving excessive fondness for animals.

Perverted? I can assure you my affinity is nothing more than an affinity and quite innocent in nature. How you can suggest otherwise is very low

Quote from tristancliffe :

But lowering the grip of the cars, so that driver skill becomes important (unlike most dry running oval racing) does make it more exciting. However, my joke about dry running being banned was silly (as I'm sure you could tell).

I find the driver's drafting skill to be a much more effective entertainment then the novelty of having a wet condition.

Quote from tristancliffe :

What about it? Just leave it. It'll be refreshing for the spectators I guess...

Maybe this hasn't occurred to you yet but the mist wont allow people to see AT ALL. If you haven't noticed oval racing is giant pack racing.

Quote from tristancliffe :

It's not very sarcastic at all. Or, indeed, whimsical. But if you are making tongue in cheek comments then silly smilies might be appropriate for you if you can't get the point across in words.

As I've said, you've obviously missed my point.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I have yet to see any decent explanation for non running in the wet. I shall keep looking and keep waiting for it. I doubt there will be one other than 'because they just don't okay, leave us alone!'

I have yet to see any decent explanation for running in the wet. I shall keep looking and waiting for it. But I doubt there will be one other than the novelty of rain and hollow insults

Quote from lizardfolk :

I have yet to see any decent explanation for running in the wet.

It would eliminate rain delays.

Quote from Lateralus :

It would eliminate rain delays.

I find that better than watching a giant mist overcome the entire track

However, I do agree with Boris that NASCAR should add allow cars to racing on road course in wet conditions as well as removing that horrid provisions rule.

Quote from lizardfolk :

I find that better than watching a giant mist overcome the entire track

That is totally weak. Mist or not, racing is better than staring at an empty track.

Spray from other cars is not a good excuse. Many other series manage it, including open-wheel series. At least stock car drivers are dry inside their cars and they don't have their visor as a windscreen.

Quote from Lateralus :

That is totally weak. Mist or not, racing is better than staring at an empty track.

Spray from other cars is not a good excuse. Many other series manage it, including open-wheel series. At least stock car drivers are dry inside their cars and they don't have their visor as a windscreen.

As far as I know there's been no rain races (qualifying dont count) on ovals. Be it NASCAR or IndyCar. I think IndyCar tried to have a rain race at the Indy 500 but that failed horribly.

But I will agree that NASCAR/IndyCar should start qualifying in the rain and once they race on road courses then they should race on wet conditions as well

Paved ovals cannot support rain tires because the turns are all very fast and the soft rubber compound used in the tread would not survive long against the forces inflicted upon it

So you go to a harder compound that won't fall to pieces. As long as it's a little softer it'll still generate enough heat to work, and because of the lower lateral (and longitudinal) forces it'll actually be under LESS stress.

So tyre safety isn't an issue at all (assuming the manufacturer is actually told about changes to the surface, unlike F1 at Indy that time before someone mentions it).