The BF1 isn't the most popular car online at the moment. As an F1 enthusiast, I can't help but feel that the current driving experience is about 2 years out of date. Recent regulations have abolished traction control (which would make a big difference) and rpm is limited to 19,000. Turning the TC off at the moment makes it practically undriveable (and I don't think it's just down to setup), F1 drivers have said the new non-TC cars are quite easy to get used to, but this isn't the case in LFS.

I think that the current BF1 car settings could just be altered (maybe a new car model if eventually) so that drivers can have a relatively realistic F1 experience online.

maybe this will happen in the next physics/interior update.

BF1 is not undriveable without TC. It is trickier, but once you get into the swing of things it isn't even much slower.

The real problem is a lack of server side option to deactivate TC. Without that, leagues could not run a no-TC BF1 competition.

Perhaps the issue is that no-one in LFS has the skill of your average F1 driver?

Quote from Eddster :

Turning the TC off at the moment makes it practically undriveable (and I don't think it's just down to setup), F1 drivers have said the new non-TC cars are quite easy to get used to, but this isn't the case in LFS.

F1 drivers have HUGE G forces acting on their body to let them know EXACTLY what the car is doing. In LFS and other sims you have to use other queues which are lagged so you need to learn to feed power with very subtle control

Quote from Eddster :

The BF1 isn't the most popular car online at the moment. As an F1 enthusiast, I can't help but feel that the current driving experience is about 2 years out of date. Recent regulations have abolished traction control (which would make a big difference) and rpm is limited to 19,000. Turning the TC off at the moment makes it practically undriveable (and I don't think it's just down to setup), F1 drivers have said the new non-TC cars are quite easy to get used to, but this isn't the case in LFS.

It's not hard to drive the BF1 without TC, it just requires a bit of skill and caution. As for the new regs there's no point, we have the car we have in LFS not a random F1 car so I say keep it as it is if there's really a need a new F1 car could be added later, although I still think it's a waste of time seeing as they're all effectively the same thing in slightly different packaging.

Yes please for a server side TC option though

Maybe its because the devs have destryed it like i said on my first post after the Patch Y update now you see its probably the most unpopular car in the game right now from it. Even redline hasn't even got RR3 running with BF1 now.

How did the devs destroy it? Or are you just flamebaiting for the pleasure of it?

Actually RR3 is running with BF1/WE1 combo at the moment

I'd rather see GP2 car to fill the gap between FO8 and BF1 and something between FOX and FO8

Quote from tristancliffe :

How did the devs destroy it? Or are you just flamebaiting for the pleasure of it?

its more like him assuming that he's the best driver in LFS, so if he has trouble driving the BF1, OF COURSE everyone else must as well.

If you just turn the TC off in a car running a setup designed to work with TC, then it becomes very very difficult to even come close to TC enabled pace. I don't imagine the F1 teams have changed nothing else either though, to compensate for the lack of TC.

I've had it "drivable" but the fast setups don't use the TC for fun, and you have to compromise the outright speed to keep it manageable. If someone has a no-tc setup for the BF1 I'd be interested to try it. Remember driving it is one thing, driving it quick is quite another. I'd be impressed if someone can stay within 0.5s per minute of a TC enabled car. (oval doesn't count before someone says that)

Quote from sinbad :

I've had it "drivable" but the fast setups don't use the TC for fun, and you have to compromise the outright speed to keep it manageable. If someone has a no-tc setup for the BF1 I'd be interested to try it. Remember driving it is one thing, driving it quick is quite another. I'd be impressed if someone can stay within 0.5s per minute of a TC enabled car. (oval doesn't count before someone says that)

Without an artificial driver aid, like you said, it's never going to be possible to apply the throttle in the same way. Obviously TC will be the fastest option but taking a reasonably stable set and simply turning it off doesn't make the car undrivable, you can still have it up to the new limit, caused by your inability to modulate the throttle like a computer, with relative ease.

Quote from _ak :

Actually RR3 is running with BF1/WE1 combo at the moment

I'd rather see GP2 car to fill the gap between FO8 and BF1 and something between FOX and FO8

And a car for inbetween all of those (so additioanl 4 cars). Why not mroe tintops? A formula is just a formula (yes, i hate openwheelers :P)

Quote from _ak :

Actually RR3 is running with BF1/WE1 combo at the moment

I'd rather see GP2 car to fill the gap between FO8 and BF1 and something between FOX and FO8

Well actually RR3 was running BF1/BL1 combo for nearly 3 months and as soon as patch Y comes out they scrap it.. wonder why!

None of the people that used to race the BF1 either dont drive it at all anymore or think its not as good as it used to be.

Im not bothered abuot the cltuch as i use auto clutch but the handling is the issue especially on blackwood, i must ay it was better at AS GP than i expected but still not as good as it should be.

And just for your info RR3 is running F08 not BF1 and they scrapped BF1 on AS too.. wonder why!

@Tristan you say i want to moan every post i see you type here is moaning about something or someone, you have issues sort them out quick and get a life.

I have a life thanks. It's actually fairly well documented on here in various places.

The handling and physics are THE SAME AT EACH TRACK. You can't say the car is worse at Blackwood but better at Aston, as cars aren't like that. Sort the setup, learn to drive and go from there.

I don't mind people complaining - it's not my problem. But I do mind people making stuff up, moaning without actually giving a sensible reason, and pretty much everything you do. When you get a life, come back here and tell us accurately and concisely what is wrong with the Sauber since the last patch.

Being 16 and currently revising for my GCSE's i have better things to do that to tell you precisely what is wrong with it.

Setup- I have WR setup which was sent to me by a friend.

Driver- Before patch Y was a couple of tenths off the WR using keyboard.

Track- AS is more suited to the BF1 so its not as noticeable when driving there compared to blackwood where im getting loads of understerr and crappy gear change which makes for a crap drive basically.

Very brief but all ive got time for. Won't be able to reply.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Well actually RR3 was running BF1/BL1 combo for nearly 3 months and as soon as patch Y comes out they scrap it.. wonder why!

Because the FBM came along and no one was interested in driving it anymore.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Setup- I have WR setup which was sent to me by a friend.

Driver- Before patch Y was a couple of tenths off the WR using keyboard.

If your using the same setup no wonder you've got issues, as Scawen said setups have to be effectively scrapped (hence no auto-conversion). If you really want to keep a set you'll have to change the camber adjustment, because the standard camber has changed and you'll have to change a lot to take account the harder tires you'll have to run. Cornering speeds may be brought down a bit due to having to run a slightly harder compound, but that should have no effect on the handling of a correctly adjusted car.

WR sets are generally rubbish for racing especially when you're using obsolete WR sets with far too much camber and soft tires. The massive understeer you're suffering is almost certainly from them just cooking and your using a keyboard so you have no hope of being able to drive smoothly and consistently enough to actually be able to tell the difference. You cannot ignore setup, if you do you'll end up no where. You need to forget about WR sets use something better than keys and find a sensible baseline set that someone made from this patch seeing as you're obviously incapable of doing it yourself.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Driver- Before patch Y was a couple of tenths off the WR using keyboard.

ummm....there is your problem...

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Being 16 and currently revising for my GCSE's i have better things to do that to tell you precisely what is wrong with it.

Ah. 16. That means you know approximately nothing about how F1 cars should drive then.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Setup- I have WR setup which was sent to me by a friend.

Fine. Have you adapted it for YOUR driving, or just using it as is?

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Driver- Before patch Y was a couple of tenths off the WR using keyboard.

Twat

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Track- AS is more suited to the BF1 so its not as noticeable when driving there compared to blackwood where im getting loads of understerr and crappy gear change which makes for a crap drive basically.

Take off a little front bar, add a little front wing and go from there to cure the understeer. Not being able to change gears is because of your spasticated arm finger movements - you can't blame that on a car with a semi-auto box.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Very brief but all ive got time for. Won't be able to reply.

Good luck. The time you've saved not bothering to tell us anything useful about how bad you are at driving will maybe get you a D instead of a E. Way to go, failure.

Just to add to the setup's bit:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=37198

Here, in my test its clearly seen how camber settings changed, other than that, BF1 is unchanged imo

Quote from sinbad :

If you just turn the TC off in a car running a setup designed to work with TC, then it becomes very very difficult to even come close to TC enabled pace. I don't imagine the F1 teams have changed nothing else either though, to compensate for the lack of TC.

I've had it "drivable" but the fast setups don't use the TC for fun, and you have to compromise the outright speed to keep it manageable. If someone has a no-tc setup for the BF1 I'd be interested to try it. Remember driving it is one thing, driving it quick is quite another. I'd be impressed if someone can stay within 0.5s per minute of a TC enabled car. (oval doesn't count before someone says that)

The TC in lfs is not even close as being how good the tc on an real F1 one car was. The BF1 is therefore already usually setup for a very simple type of traction control and in corners feels like driving without TC. Real F1 drivers just floored it in corners, because the computers did all the work to keep the car on track. Making overtaking sometimes impossible.

However, totally without TC, the bf1 is also very good to drive. But If a track has slow corners with on exit of those slow corners a few big bumps, you don' t stand a chance againt cars with tc. I don't think any setup can fix that.

The car is supposed to simulate a 2006 specification car, I.E. with TC and the slightly higher rev limit. I have no issue with a 2007/8 spec car, but this is the F1.06, the devs got permission to add the F1.06, not the F1.07 of F1.08.

Tristan- you have you ever driven a 2006 BMW Sauber? you must have if you know everything about it and have driven one since you slated me for it.

For clarification i was using the current WR set which is set by Redline DNB!

Im a crap driver? ask anyone that has raced with me and see what they say.

Twat? lets just hope i see you at a race meet this season for you to say it to my face, if you do, you won't be standing for long.

I would hope a mechanical engineering degree and relevant career path plus real racing experience (and that doesn't just mean driving) have meant Tristan is slightly more likely to understand this than you, in fact I think my cat could comprehend enough of this if I drummed it in enough so another go:

1. You're driving with keyboard controls, ditch them straight away. If you insist on using this silly input method you'll have to adapt the car to cope. Those who drive fast do not use such a silly input method therefore by that logic WR sets will be useless for you.

2. The softer compounds now heat up more quickly, I'm certain you're overheating them, you need to change the tires to suit your driving style and race distance. A hot lap set will now be even more useless because it'll use the softest available tire (R2) that can no longer last a pick up race.

3. The camber needs to be changed in setups from the last patch. You're complaining of understeer, presumably through the front tires over heating, maybe through too much camber. A quick glance at Art555's table shows a lot more negative camber has been added to the front of the BF1, which only draws me to the conclusion that the set you're using is old and useless to you.

4. I've raced against you once or twice and you're not a good clean driver. Honestly you're all over the place and you've only got vaguely competitive by driving 5000 laps round one combo that very few people practice very much. I seem to remember you complained about the changes to Blackwood as well, you're clearly just a creature of habit and are upset you've lost the one combo you've somehow become competitive at. I suggest you find a better controller and try a slightly more interesting and challenging combination of a completely different car and track.

As always it comes down to the WRONG controller and the sim getting more realistic.

Every time there is a patch we get the same. People who drive to the LFS physics engine instead of driving a car. This brings in bad habbits that, once the exploit or bug is fixed, need to be unlearned.

I would say that if you have clocked up 5000 laps on one combo using keyboard you have built up some real BAD habbits. You would have to to compensate for the digital nature of your controller.

No, an F1 car should NOT be easy to drive. Insane power mixed with a tiny edge to grip transition makes it difficult to drive fast and on the edge. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a little dumb to say the least. If it was easy we would all be driving them IRL

I normally avoid the F1 because so few people can actually drive it well that its pointless trying in a pickup environment..

So to recap. F1 not killed by latest patch. Your driving style was incorrect and the previous patch meant this BAD technique was workable. Drive properly and the problem goes away!