Quote from _ak :

I know. But GP2 cars are faster than F3000. GP2 has 4 litre V8 580hp whereas F3000 has 3 litre V8 450hp

But in essence GP2 is the same thing just in a slightly faster uglier package

Quote from _ak :

I know. But GP2 cars are faster than F3000. GP2 has 4 litre V8 580hp whereas F3000 has 3 litre V8 450hp

470BHP actually, between 1996 to 2004 using Zytek KV-V8 "spec" engines. However the latest Formula Nippon cars use 2006 Toyota/Honda-block engines which produce up to 550BHP. Although Formula Nippon is not FIA F3000, it has the same basic roots, Lola-built spec chassis, spec engines from Toyota or Honda (F3000 had spec engines from Judd-rebadged-Zytek).

But yes, you're right. GP2 cars are indeed faster than F3000.

Personally though, I'd rather the current FO8 to be updated to the latest Formula Nippon 2006 specs. It would probably be a simpler job to tweak FO8 from FIA F3000 spec to FN06 spec, than to create a new car for GP2.

A tweak of the FOX to proper Formula Renault 2000 capabilities would be good too, instead of the unrealistically slow version we have now.

As for the BF1, while I would be enthused to see it updated to F1.08 spec, I'm already very grateful that we LFS players can pretend to drive a surprisingly accurate imitation of a real F1 car. I can't think of any high-fidelity PC racing game that features an accurately-simulated F1 car.

Right tristan you seem to think that people have to have driven a F1 car in real life to be fast in them on a simulator which no-one i know who is fast has!

And just for you and ajp i spent an hour hotlapping before and managed to get a WR on keyboard beating the previous 1 by over a tenth with a setup that wasn't made for there. Just to show you it has nothing to do with the keyboard or me, still think im all over the place and slow ajp?.

The setup i was using for blackwood was a WR setup FOR patch Y which is the kind of setups i used to run with on patch X (WR setups).

Im ill with this thread it won't end.

"n contrast a modern F1 car isn't setup or designed to be controlled with a lead weight on the throttle pedal,"

What??? F1 drivers are flooring it on twisty sections of the track. The tc handles it all! The tc is very unlike the one of lfs. On lfs it is nearly useless in midconers where real drivers can floor it. Because, the tc will handle everyting. However, most of us will still not be able to control such a car, because most of us are not strong enough to cope with the g-forces and/or get scared from the speed of an f1 car

Don' t try this in lfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewTyxOaVpOc

Complte lap of F1 tc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... 62rnU&feature=related

Only reason to stay off the pedal is the understeer, because the tc won't allow any sliding of the rear, keeping the car in control, making it possible to use unstable setups and still have understeer.


altough i must add, the f1 tc feels a bit better, but still not as good as it was with real cars. But i never driven a real one

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Right tristan you seem to think that people have to have driven a F1 car in real life to be fast in them on a simulator which no-one i know who is fast has!

And just for you and ajp i spent an hour hotlapping before and managed to get a WR on keyboard beating the previous 1 by over a tenth with a setup that wasn't made for there. Just to show you it has nothing to do with the keyboard or me, still think im all over the place and slow ajp?.

The setup i was using for blackwood was a WR setup FOR patch Y which is the kind of setups i used to run with on patch X (WR setups).

Im ill with this thread it won't end.

It will get very difficult if scawen decides to turn of keyboard stabalizing

In the old days, digital was the only available input for home sim racers. It is very easy compared to analogue.

Quote from lizardfolk :

Also, by "not as good anymore" do you mean not as easy?

If you can drive the BF1 competitively with kb and mouse and then cant manage to maintain that same level of competitiveness in Patch Y...then that means it's more realistic (which would be a good thing).

Just because something becomes more difficult doesn't mean it becomes "crappier". In fact, in a sim that's normally a good thing

A bit off-topic, but I thought I'd just add that it doesn't automatically mean that 'more difficult' = more realistic. A change in physics could just as well mean that a car becomes easier to drive because it is more predictable, which in turn would be because of the added realism.

Quote from Bluebird B B :

F1 drivers are flooring it on twisty sections of the track. The tc handles it all! The tc is very unlike the one of lfs. On lfs it is nearly useless in midconers where real drivers can floor it. Because, the tc will handle everyting. However, most of us will still not be able to control such a car, because most of us are not strong enough to cope with the g-forces and/or get scared from the speed of an f1 car

Don' t try this in lfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewTyxOaVpOc

Complte lap of F1 tc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... 62rnU&feature=related

Only reason to stay off the pedal is the understeer, because the tc won't allow any sliding of the rear, keeping the car in control, making it possible to use unstable setups and still have understeer.


altough i must add, the f1 tc feels a bit better, but still not as good as it was with real cars. But i never driven a real one

It's perfectly possible to floor the throttle mid-corner in the BF1. You just have to set your TC to the appropriate setting (like in real F1 cars), around 2-3%.

Mind you, real F1 drivers usually set TC to more than 4% allowed slip. It is not uncommon to see F1 drivers spinning it despite TC. Unlike us mere mortals, they know how to take advantage of their cars' TC, while most LFS players probably just slam the throttle and hope for the best.

The TC in LFS is very good, although I certainly can't comment on how good it is compared to real F1 cars.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

A bit off-topic, but I thought I'd just add that it doesn't automatically mean that 'more difficult' = more realistic. A change in physics could just as well mean that a car becomes easier to drive because it is more predictable, which in turn would be because of the added realism.

Yep

Quote from samjh :

It's perfectly possible to floor the throttle mid-corner in the BF1. You just have to set your TC to the appropriate setting (like in real F1 cars), around 2-3%.

Mind you, real F1 drivers usually set TC to more than 4% allowed slip. It is not uncommon to see F1 drivers spinning it despite TC. Unlike us mere mortals, they know how to take advantage of their cars' TC, while most LFS players probably just slam the throttle and hope for the best.

The TC in LFS is very good, although I certainly can't comment on how good it is compared to real F1 cars.

The tc of lfs is very simple, it just limits slip, at whatever speed the car is going and what the driver is doing. Very much like the first generations of traction control over 15 years ago. TC-systems are a lot better nowadays... Thats why it is good news they are banned from F1. They cost too much money, not the simple one like lfs or road going cars(1500 dollars max to install) but in order of 1000000+ dollars of development on top f1 teams each year excusive production costs. I assume such system will do a bit more then just limit slip according to a very strict setting.

Anyway, i hope someday tc will be banned from lfs too, but not before the tyre-heat problem is fixed.

Quote from Bluebird B B :

The tc of lfs is very simple, it just limits slip, at whatever speed the car is going and what the driver is doing. Very much like the first generations of traction control over 15 years ago. TC-systems are a lot better nowadays... Thats why it is good news they are banned from F1. They cost too much money, not the simple one like lfs or road going cars(1500 dollars max to install) but in order of 1000000+ dollars of development on top f1 teams each year excusive production costs. I assume such system will do a bit more then just limit slip according to a very strict setting.

Anyway, i hope someday tc will be banned from lfs too, but not before the tyre-heat problem is fixed.

TC is a road car is even cheaper than that. When I bought my BWM Mini Cooper a while back having TC added to the car cost a massive $100GBP (Don't have the GBP symbol on my NZ keyboard )

This is because all the electronics for it, wheel sensors etc were already in the car. It made use of the ABS sensors to determine car state and then used throttle cut and separate wheel braking to implement.

The real cost was more for the switch on the dash that would otherwise have been a blank plate. The only reason I had it fitted in the end was so I didn't have an empty switch hole in the dash, I always turned off as I hated it with a vengence

So you don't have problems at Blackwood anymore? Even though the car is shit there now, and understeers too much (which is obviously a fault of the car, and not the driver or the setup).

Congrats - you solved your problem by actually doing something. Now you have the WR you don't need to complain anymore.

Meh, set up your damn car and get over the patch changes. BL1 is a drastically different track now besides the physics changes (especially if you're a one trick show and it's pretty much the only track you drive). I like the changes for the most part, if anything they're advantageous to me because as I've gotten more into lfs enduro events my driving has gotten smoother as I focus on saving the car. Patch Y greatly rewards this driving. But, as this discussion started out, there is no 'this car doesn't work on this track.' If you're unhappy with the car, fix your setup.

/Edit - And don't assume that inferno is the be all end all of setups. If I happen to choose the inferno set to start out with for a league race, (which is only ~50% of the time even though they're more available than that) I still spend an hour to two hours fixing the setup. Inferno sets are very quick, but they're not very GOOD setups, even under sprint race conditions.

What your forgetting is i have spent so much time in that fcking car that i should be able to use inferno setups and be able to get a decent time with them (like i used to). I have used so many setups for blackwood its unbeleivable and still it handles like crap. Its not even understeer the front wheels feels like they've just hit a patch of ice as soon as you turn in. btw the WR wasn't for blackwood. Plus i dont have it at the minute my team mate has stole it

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

What your forgetting is i have spent so much time in that fcking car that i should be able to use inferno setups and be able to get a decent time with them (like i used to). I have used so many setups for blackwood its unbeleivable and still it handles like crap. Its not even understeer the front wheels feels like they've just hit a patch of ice as soon as you turn in. btw the WR wasn't for blackwood. Plus i dont have it at the minute my team mate has stole it

Using random setups != setting up the car for YOU. Plus I'm extremely experienced at sight-reading tracks, but the new bl gp throws me off more than any new track. Mostly because I'm just so used to driving the old bl gp that I'm having problems fighting old habits/expectations as to how the track unfolds ahead of me. I spent 45 minutes just driving around attempting to rid myself of the old track from my head for a league test race. And yet, I still screwed up based on driving to the old bl gp when I went and did the test race. (Broke at my old braking point in the middle of a fight for position at the end of the backstraight.)

To me, there is no arguing here, there is no such thing as a car that won't work at a track. One car might have points that make it better at one track than another, but you're having setup/driver issues.

Yes but you see i use keyboard but i NEVER change the setup to suit me (steering lock etc). i always keep it how it is, thats how i like it and it suits me.

It strikes me that you have no room for complaint. You are using silly setups with a silly control method, and can't state in any depth what is actually wrong. Are you even using new setups, or pre-Y types?

It just seems to me like you are moaning and crying because something has changed, rather than looking at it sensibly.

Tristan as i've said about 5 times in this thread i have used 2 patch X setups, 1 patch Y WR setup, and about 5 patch Y setup which are just normal nothing special and i get the same outcome.

I even posted 2 replays of before patch Y and after in comparision to show you what the problem was its visible if you look.

I have no desire to watch your keyboardy driving antics, so I won't be downloading them. The problem is you, not the car or the track.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Its not even understeer the front wheels feels like they've just hit a patch of ice as soon as you turn in.

Er, what would you describe that as, then?

Inferno setups are not made for keyboard drivers, unsurprisingly, because nobody serious uses such a ridiculously unrealistic method of input. The car has been made more realistic, and so setups made for the updated car should not work as well on an unrealistic controller. There's your simplified explanation. I'm wondering how long it will take for you to realise that the car will only understeer if you throw it into a corner too hard... Which isn't your fault, of course, it's the car or the physics to blame for that...

This really isn't going anywhere...

Sam

Dude i know how to drive a car as ive proved i know what understeer feels like, this isn't understeer. The front wheels a sliding about as if they are really cold (they aren't) or blown (obviously not).

Maybe it is the keyboard but why am i only affected really there, i still feel it a bit at aston but not as bad as at blackwood.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Yes but you see i use keyboard but i NEVER change the setup to suit me (steering lock etc). i always keep it how it is, thats how i like it and it suits me.

Steering lock is NOT what people are really talking about when they say setup. That is a TINY fraction of what a setup is about. You do realise even tiny changes in diff locking settings can cause or cure the effects you talk about.

Also the engines have MORE inertia in Y. This means having a lead foot (Read KB lumped in here) has more effect on car balance and weight transfer, again something you can dial out with the diff.

You do realise that the next improvements will mean you go through the SAME thing next time dont you.

Last time...

• BL1 has changed its layout.
  
• The F1 car changed because the LFS physics changed.

If you can't see that this will REQUIRE a change in your driving then you are playing the WRONG game

HTH

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

The front wheels a sliding about as if they are really cold (they aren't) or blown (obviously not).

Yes, that's understeer. Could be caused by any one (or more) of hundreds of things.

I thought understeer was when your actually into the corner and you either are going to fast or don't have enough front wing to make it back out.

Im not even getting into the corner before it feels bad. Thanks anyway G25 soon i hope and ill see what happens.

Understeer is when the car travels through a larger radius than you intended.
Understeer is when the front slip angle is greater than the rear slip angle.
Understeer is when the front of the car loses traction before the rear of the car.

A car is almost always oversteering or understeering a bit as it's cornering, more to those terms than the visually obvious results.