Quote from atlantian :

oh, yes, but i was talking about ebrake initiation, ebrakes can help you grip in rallies where you if you have exessive wheelspin in the rear tires.

BTW, @squidhead, how is the ebrake a powerful tool? it can be used to brake loose traction at a moment's notice, but so can a very abrupt clutch drop.

no comparison, as i mentioned throttle, or a clutch kick will push the car in the direction of the drive wheels, depending on the angle, this means it can add a bit of forward speed, as well as speed towards the corner, this is why the angle for this technique is extremely important, a handbrake will slightly reduce speeds and keep the car moving in the direction of the momentum (forward, not into the corner), the angle is not as important in determining where the car goes, hence more angle can be applied.

also, depending on the diff, the torque applied can vary from wheel to wheel, whereas the handbrake (especially with a hydraulic hb) it will be constant. also the torque from the wheels going from 100kmh's or so to 0kmh's is a lot greater than clutch kicking from 100k's to 130k's or what ever, so it will get the tyres loose a lot quicker.

also, from a tyre point of view, hbing is very hard on the tyres, not only from the extra torque, but from concentrating it on one spot in the tyre, you will just rip tyres apart once they are warm with the hb.

Quote from RAM0011 :

Hello

I ask if my drift is good

the replay movie is in the attachement

Thank's


PS: Normal ? If I drift a lost a lot of speed
PS2 : Using Handbrake for drift is that good ?

I just watched this a minute ago
omg, what the hell? what happened to your brake pedal? and are u a keyboard driver? your steering is erratic... and yes, this IS arab drifting

PS: yes, drifting would trim a lot of speed off, and...
PS2: Using the handbrake doesn't involve much skill...


BTW, to all you ebrake believers out there, you can use ebrakes but not to this extent... maybe a tap or two to trick AWD systems, regain grip if you have rear slippage, maybe a yank if your angle is too shallow, but this... why would anyone film their practice lap as a n00b i know i wouldn't.

Quote from nisskid :

no comparison, as i mentioned throttle, or a clutch kick will push the car in the direction of the drive wheels, depending on the angle, this means it can add a bit of forward speed, as well as speed towards the corner, this is why the angle for this technique is extremely important, a handbrake will slightly reduce speeds and keep the car moving in the direction of the momentum (forward, not into the corner), the angle is not as important in determining where the car goes, hence more angle can be applied.

also, depending on the diff, the torque applied can vary from wheel to wheel, whereas the handbrake (especially with a hydraulic hb) it will be constant. also the torque from the wheels going from 100kmh's or so to 0kmh's is a lot greater than clutch kicking from 100k's to 130k's or what ever, so it will get the tyres loose a lot quicker.

also, from a tyre point of view, hbing is very hard on the tyres, not only from the extra torque, but from concentrating it on one spot in the tyre, you will just rip tyres apart once they are warm with the hb.

sigh... although unnoticeable, there is a slight feint on every kind of initiation. and why would you use an open or "broken" LSD??? you would usually use a wielded or a race-grade LSD in drifting. so power-oversteer is just speeding up the tire to un-sync the two mediums to loose grip on the driving wheels, with a slight flick, the tire spin will carry and accelerate the rear of the car along the path of momentum.

Quote from nisskid :

yeh, kind of, it comes apparent pretty quickly how useful the handbrake is mid corner, having the handbrake allows u to maintain angle whilst slightly slowing down as throttle will move u in the direction of the rear wheels and usually against the momentum, meaning the car is pushed into the corner as well as picking up some momentum. if ur coming in shallow and wont make it to the apex u sometimes have to "arse drag" which is pretty much holding the handbrake to maintain the angle and keeping with the way of the momentum instead of pushing against it and into the corner, meaning it wipes off momentum without pushing against it. arse dragging isnt really looked well upon, buts its often better than straightening up to make the corner.

also when it comes to battles, if u carry more speed into a corner then use the handbrake to enter wiping off some speed, it will be easy for the follower to keep up on ur arse, if u carry less speed down the straight and use a flick or something and power into the corner its a lot easier to get some distance on the follower.

so yeh, a lot of top level drivers use the handbrake to adjust the drift, but for entry u really need to get the scando or similar mastered.

oh, sigh... this doesn't even deserve a dignified resonse

BTW: sorry about the triple post, but i saw each of the posts one at a time

so u argued one of my points, which was probably one of if not the weekest points in my statement, and left the rest? the fact that u replied to one of the points but didnt bother with the rest leads me to beleive you have no argument.

if you even think the handbrake can be completely replaced by clutch kicking you hold no credability as its quite simply not true.

also i dont know where i said those techniques didnt usually require small amounts of feint, of course they do, but its not used to lose traction, its used to position the car once the traction is lost.

Quote from BigTime :

I'll agree that the hand brake is primarily a learning tool and should be used as little as possible... However, the hand brake is used quite often by great drivers. Keep in mind that lots of drivers use the hand brake but never lock the rear tires, so it's almost unnoticeable to the untrained eye.

no, its simply a different technique, just because a technique is not scored as high in a drift competition doesnt mean its primarily a "learning tool"

i personally learnt clutch kick entry before handbrake entry, probably because i learnt to drift on the street where you first learn to clutch kick mid corner, but i know most people ive talked to seem to start off similar.

handbrake is a lot more controlled, hence once u want to start going faster and harder using a handbrake feels more comfortable, for precision u can never really look past the handbrake due to its predictability.

the handbrake is a helpful tool whilst learning and pushing urself, but its not because its a amateur technique, its simply its characteristics suit trying new things and pushing urself due to its predictable and controllable nature.

^ergo, i say that ebrakes are for people who are too afraid to do anything, it's too predictable

Quote from atlantian :

^ergo, i say that ebrakes are for people who are too afraid to do anything, it's too predictable

Well, there are a lot of times when a more predictable maneuver is desired. Besides, I think with a bit of practice, you can learn to be just as "predictable" when initiating a drift by flicking the car as you can be by pulling the handbrake. I personally don't find that flicking the car requires that much more skill than pulling the handbrake anyway. Sure the rear end slides out more abruptly, but if you really have a lot of trouble controlling it that way, you're not likely to fare THAT much better with the other method.

But maybe not - hell if I know

Here's my chance. Can someone judge my drifting? These aren't my best laps though. So based on that, go ahead and flame thanks in advance.

stiggie1 is at BW and stiggie2 at fern bay,
The driving is with a steering wheel on lfs Y.

Very nice!

Quote from atlantian :

^ergo, i say that ebrakes are for people who are too afraid to do anything, it's too predictable

that was the most idiotic thing ive read.

^yeeeeeeah... ok, that's cool, what ever you say good for you!

and another point is that i find it better to NOT take your hand off the steering wheel as you are about to enter a turn, just my 2 cents. and i just think that it's more conventional to initiate with the pedals.

and it's too stereotypical that people drift with ebrakes

where are u getting this information from and forming this opinion?

i learned with the ebrake, and i am just used to pedal initiation, i think it's more "pro" and i don't like touching the ebrake much

and also, when people mock drifters, it typically goes like this...
"hey, oh, yeah! handbrake turns all day long, man!"
while he or she mimes pulling on the ebrake...

Quote from My friend, a professional drifter :

You learn with a handbrake, then you think that it's for newbies, and only MUCH LATER you realize what kind of a tool Handbrake really is, and what can you achieve by using it properly...

Quote from atlantian :

i learned with the ebrake, and i am just used to pedal initiation, i think it's more "pro"

That explains it all, you're not experienced enough to understand what kind of a tool handbrake really is

Funny. The handbrake is like THE stunt tool of any car...

...but I guess if it isn't COOL to use it, then you shouldn't

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

Funny. The handbrake is like THE stunt tool of any car...

...but I guess if it isn't COOL to use it, then you shouldn't

meh, i don't

Quote from atlantian :

meh, i don't

ur a minority then.

Impressive how some of you manage to go offtopic all the time, but i thought this topic was about someone showing his drifting. All i've heard about my drifting was 1 comment: very nice! (thx ) With a few views on replays. Would it be a idea to go ontopic and flame on my and/or other's replays?

Quote from Stiggie :

Impressive how some of you manage to go offtopic all the time, but i thought this topic was about someone showing his drifting. All i've heard about my drifting was 1 comment: very nice! (thx ) With a few views on replays. Would it be a idea to go ontopic and flame on my and/or other's replays?

the drifting was horrible, i watched it... and commented

Quote from atlantian :

the drifting was horrible, i watched it... and commented

OK if you're so special lets see a replay of YOU drifting in your "pro" way.

Quote from samforey12345 :

OK if you're so special lets see a replay of YOU drifting in you're "pro" way.

i'll post on friday night

Quote from Stiggie :

Impressive how some of you manage to go offtopic all the time, but i thought this topic was about someone showing his drifting. All i've heard about my drifting was 1 comment: very nice! (thx )

you are leaving your rear wheels without any torque on them by releasing the gas fully for a long time in EVERY turn...
You have no control over the car with your gas pedal (and that's really bad), wheel is good, but it has to be coupled with some pedal work

@ e-brake : well i started drifting with using handbrake when i was drifting with mouse, after few weeks i realized that im not using ebrake anymore, i was getting car sideways using feint or clutch kick, then i bought DFP and now im not using e-brake, because its hard to push the e-brake button while my wheel is turned... but i can drift well without using e-brake ( ... i hope )

Quote from squidhead :

you are leaving your rear wheels without any torque on them by releasing the gas fully for a long time in EVERY turn...
You have no control over the car with your gas pedal (and that's really bad), wheel is good, but it has to be coupled with some pedal work

I can see what you mean, but i could easily drift without having to use the handbrake at patch x. I used some program to convert my setups to lfs y, maybe it has got something to do with that..
And since blackwood changed a little bit, i still need to get used to that. The biggest problem for me is that the revs are getting limited since patch y got out, so now i can't get the revs up higher in third gear to get into the corner. So now i need to change to fourth gear all the time and then change gear back again, this isn't ideal for me. I know, it's just the setup which is causing most of the problems for me, but that was all i needed to say about my sucky driving.