Quote from lizardfolk :

Also, I'm not sure what you are trying to say about NASCAR.

that is boring most of the times... and ppl here in mexico go to the race because its the only series that come here..

Quote from ajp71 :

Wouldn't you choose Jacky Ickx and Derek Bell and over JPM and Raikkonen for a 24 hour race? No doubt they'd make them look like a pair of pensioners over a few laps but they'd be far more likely to look after and nurse home a damaged car without incident over the course of 24 hours, there's a reason why they've got 11 wins between them. Endurance racing requires a completely different skill set, driving fast is only the icing on the cake, consistency and mechanical sympathy are far more important and especially today a lot of top level drivers are never required to have these abilities that are essential for an all round driver.

The main reason Ickx and Bell have so many wins between them is Porsche. The main reason Kristensen has so many wins is Audi. I realise it's a different challenge, but the emphasis is on the car, not the driver.

Quote from Bumpdrafter :

To me, the last "complete" race driver was Mario Andretti.

agreed, f1 champ, indy 500 winner and nascar daytona 500 winner, daytona 24 hour winner,3 times sebring 12 hour winner, pike peak hill climb winner, 4 times "champ" car champion, pole position for his first F1 race, 2nd and a 3rd at le mans, drove works ferrari in sports car races co driving with jacky ickx,

Btw, this is what Montoya is doing nowadays.

He is such a complete racing driver, he had to find something else.

I get sick of roundabouts already, can't possibly imagine you want to race on them.
And ovalracing confirms the stereotype of american cars.

Quote from amp88 :

The main reason Ickx and Bell have so many wins between them is Porsche. The main reason Kristensen has so many wins is Audi. I realise it's a different challenge, but the emphasis is on the car, not the driver.

Don't forget that Ickx drove in F1 before his endurance racing career. Even before F1, he raced motorcycles, touring cars, and sports cars. He won Le Mans with Ford and Mirage before driving Porsches. Furthermore, he won the Bathurst 1000, and the Dakar rally.

As for Bell, he raced F3, F2, and eventually F1, before his sports car career.

Kristensen competed in karts and F3, was a F1 test driver, and also competed in BTCC. He's no push-over when it comes to racing.

Indeed, quite a number of Le Mans racers have had competitive histories in junior formula racing, and some got their toe across to F1 as well. No matter what people might say, you don't get an F1 drive unless you have outstanding talent, attested by the fact that even most F1 rejects are quite competitive later in their motorsport careers.

Although I agree that Le Mans series have a great deal of emphasis on cars and their technology, you shouldn't underestimate the talent of successful Le Mans racers.

I'd say in terms of overall driver skill, most Le Mans racers would be comparable to racers in second-tier formulae (F3000, GP2, WSBR, Formula Nippon, etc.) and national-level touring car championships, with the top Le Mans drivers equalling those of F1 and Champ Cars.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Btw, this is what Montoya is doing nowadays.

He is such a complete racing driver, he had to find something else.

Holy shit - he just put one over JV's accomplishments - that's far better than any f1 championship.

JV's footprint is nowhere close to Mario Andretti, but personally, I think JV was a fabulous driver to watch when he is in his prime, may not be the greatest/most versitle/efficient driver but as a person, on having fun in life, he is pretty much as good as you can hope for.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Btw, this is what Montoya is doing nowadays.

That was really bizarre. And a little disturbing.

Quote from chanoman315 :

that is boring most of the times... and ppl here in mexico go to the race because its the only series that come here..

But you said:

Quote from chanoman315 :

Champ Car but we always know who wins....
but nascar ....

That implies that you never know who'll win in NASCAR and wouldn't that be more exciting than a single guy that leads the entire race with a 2 minute lead?

Quote from zeugnimod :

Btw, this is what Montoya is doing nowadays.

OMG! He broke his f#%4ing head!!!111!one

Quote from zeugnimod :

Btw, this is what Montoya is doing nowadays.

He is such a complete racing driver, he had to find something else.

hahaha..

Quote from amp88 :

The main reason Ickx and Bell have so many wins between them is Porsche. The main reason Kristensen has so many wins is Audi.

And main reason for Schumacher's latter 6 championships is Ferrari?

Quote :

I realise it's a different challenge, but the emphasis is on the car, not the driver.

You need to go couple of decades back in time to find motorsport (excluding spec series) that was primarily about the driver and then about the machinery.

Quote from samjh :

Indeed, quite a number of Le Mans racers have had competitive histories in junior formula racing, and some got their toe across to F1 as well. No matter what people might say, you don't get an F1 drive unless you have outstanding talent, attested by the fact that even most F1 rejects are quite competitive later in their motorsport careers.

But I guess F1 is still the primary goal/dream for every junior driver (at least on this side of the Atlantic). To a point - because nowadays "tintop" and single-seater drivers don't swap between the classes unlike in the good old days, so after a driver chooses to go for sports cars there's usually no coming back to single-seaters.

Aside from Villeneuve, Peugeot has gathered quite a collection of "F1 rejects" to fill their 3 cars in this year's race; Marc Gene, Pedro Lamy, Wurz, Montagny (first LM24 in 1998), Zonta and Christian Klien. Wurz is not exactly a reject though, still don't understand how he just decided to quit (even that later he explained he had no motivation and test driving is what he enjoys more :really.

I don't think Wurz was ever really cut out to be a race driver at the top level. He's a very fine driver, but seems to lack the racer instinct that more competitive F1 drivers have.

Quote from deggis :

But I guess F1 is still the primary goal/dream for every junior driver (at least on this side of the Atlantic). To a point - because nowadays "tintop" and single-seater drivers don't swap between the classes unlike in the good old days, so after a driver chooses to go for sports cars there's usually no coming back to single-seaters.

Oh there is no doubt that F1 is the ultimate goal of almost any aspiring racer who earns a FR or F3 seat.

Unfortunately the nature of modern racing contracts mean cross-pollination between disciplines just can't be done unless a driver retires, or are still in the "up and coming" stage of their career. Even at F3 level, some contracts stipulate that a driver cannot participate in more than 2 races outside of the contracted championship.

There are exceptions, of course. Look at Sebastien Loeb: he competed in both WRC and the 24 hours of Le Mans in 2005 and 2006.