+1 for track modding!!

But....

1. New tracks must be approved by a "track board"/lfs team
2. Make them downloadable through LFS so that the user always will have the latest version

The board will make sure that we only get quality tracks. They can/will also integrate them in LFS World. It take time to make quality tracks and approve them so there will not be pouring in tracks. My guess is that there will be a healthy growth of new tracks. I think this will be good for LFS!!

Surely adding more tracks will thin out the already, relatively small LFS community?

As said above, any kind of global approval team will discourage people from working on making new tracks: it takes time, effort and you don't want to waste it all if the "approval team" doesn't like your track.

I believe every server should be able to choose their own tracks, and if you are missing one, it automatically downloads it as you connect (like downloading missing maps in quake or CS). The more respectable servers like CTRA, CD are obviously gonna take the selection process seriously and you are not likely to see any crap maps there.
Again, there is no need for the approval/censoring team, the natural selection will do its job, the good maps will be well known, the crap ones will enjoy minutes of fame on private servers

Quote from ebola :

Surely adding more tracks will thin out the already, relatively small LFS community?

My feelings too, I'm not sure what the problem is - if indeed there is a problem, it may just be a seasonal dip for some reason.

But I don't feel its the lack of content, I think there are far too many servers to support the number of drivers, therefore thinning out the field on any one server.

If everyone want's to go to their own personal night club then that would make for a very boring evening.

I'm not sure what the answer is but increasing the content will make the problem worse as we will have more choice, - you only need to look at any other game to see that - specially rFactor.

It seems that from what I say, - a smaller number of servers will increase the field on the remaining servers - therefore increasing the competition.
In real terms we have about the same choice as drivers in a real racing season as far as tracks go, and a much bigger choice in cars.

But we can also spend more time at the track than real racers do so perhaps familiarity is breeding boredom, hmmm dunno what the answer is really.

Quote from The Moose :

Cars ain't the problem, it's the lack of tracks that is causing me to loose interest

True, we are getting one or two South City variations and maybe a Club version of Westhill, but I think we need new environments rather than new variation
s. IMO.

I disagree that more choice would cause thinning numbers.

Quite the opposite, I think more servers with a better choice would be refreshing.
Now I can't really talk as a regular since I've not really played since my wheel went south, but even before then I was sick of the same old boring "I-know-this-like-the-back-of-my-hand" combos - the GTR / AS3 or FOX (is it FBM now?) / BL1 or BF1 / KY1 if you really must, over and over and over ad nauseum. Those are the most populated servers (discounting the cruisers) and I can only drive one combo a couple of times in a row before I go totally nuts. So I was logging in, ordering by population and disconnecting again.

The CTRA servers are full 99% of the time (and as a mid-pack finisher my license is taking ages to progress), and any other servers that change track seem to be pretty dead.

It's not the game that's at fault - it's the users. Specifically the people running servers and the egomaniacs who race the same combo all the time because they can't possibly risk a non-podium finish anywhere else.

Quote from bluejudas :

+1 for track modding!!

But....

1. New tracks must be approved by a "track board"/lfs team
2. Make them downloadable through LFS so that the user always will have the latest version

The board will make sure that we only get quality tracks. They can/will also integrate them in LFS World. It take time to make quality tracks and approve them so there will not be pouring in tracks. My guess is that there will be a healthy growth of new tracks. I think this will be good for LFS!!

+millon for this idea > http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=13688 the results of the poll are clear...

Quote from Dajmin :

I disagree that more choice would cause thinning numbers.

The CTRA servers are full 99% of the time (and as a mid-pack finisher my license is taking ages to progress), and any other servers that change track seem to be pretty dead.

It's not the game that's at fault - it's the users. Specifically the people running servers and the egomaniacs who race the same combo all the time because they can't possibly risk a non-podium finish anywhere else.

So what you are saying is that you want more tracks yeah?,
but if peeps still stick with the tracks that they can win on - why would more tracks etc, improve this situation?

I would prefer a pay per track system. That could open LFS to real quality tracks, maybe not "nanometer-accurate" as some people want, but real enough to be good. As I said in another thread I've been playing for two years an a half with a game that cost me way less than a night out.

Quote from Dajmin :

It's not the game that's at fault - it's the users. Specifically the people running servers and the egomaniacs who race the same combo all the time because they can't possibly risk a non-podium finish anywhere else.

This is a good point. I haven't been online for a while, but still enjoy LFS from time to time in single player (sprint courses that I might get around to posting at some time...), so I don't think its the simulation or the cars that would cause any decline (if indeed there is a decline, can't be arsed to check the stats)

I don't have the time to dedicate to a league, but if I was to look for a pick-up race CTRA would be the first stop. My experience of other servers in the past was "oh look, same combination as last time."

The weirdest combos could often prove to be hugely entertaining: UF1 at Westhill? Slow car, fast course? Going to be tedious... Actually no, I had amazingly close and satisfying racing on that combo.

But sadly, most servers don't do weird... And they don't do it because most users don't do weird either. The RAC might as well not exist, and configurations longer than a minute and a bit are as rare as rocking horse shit.

It's not so much the content, but rather the stagnation of improvement in actually "important" areas that makes my interest in LFS slowly fade. I want better tyre simulation, brake heat/fade/wear, realistic setup options, aerodynamics, a proper damage model that finally penalises the current way chicanes are tackled... just, something that eradicates the most blatantly arcade-because-not-yet-implemented (:rolleyes areas of LFS.

What do we get? Multibyte character support. Great. Don't get me wrong, it is a great step to make LFS more accessible to Asian countries, but it just gives me the impression that it's not just improving slowly, but not improving at all in areas that truly matter (for me). Actually, I've already accepted and don't expect that we ever see a S3.

But then that's probably just me growing old of computer games in general

Quote from nihil :

But sadly, most servers don't do weird... And they don't do it because most users don't do weird either. The RAC might as well not exist, and configurations longer than a minute and a bit are as rare as rocking horse shit.

"Wierd" isn't what the masses want, I have run 3 seasons (around 8 events each) of the RSSC/RSWC, which is FZ5 & RAC, and we have struggled to fill half of the grid in most of the races

Bottomline, if you open a server/event with those sorts of combo's people don't want them, so you are left with a server/event with not many people in it.

I dunno what the answer is

Simple things, like forced setups, engine damage (realistic), brake fade/damage etc, would make things spicier, but personally, I think too much time is being spent on things that don't improve the overall racing product.

Heh, I have finally trying to get my 'ring time under 8 mins in GPL. I'm that desperate for new tracks

Tbh. there is no tire improvement or engine damage patch that would make me come back to racing LFS actively. LFS really needs new content, tracks more than harjuned needs water cooling.

Quote from danowat :

"Wierd" isn't what the masses want, I have run 3 seasons (around 8 events each) of the RSSC/RSWC, which is FZ5 & RAC, and we have struggled to fill half of the grid in most of the races

Bottomline, if you open a server/event with those sorts of combo's people don't want them, so you are left with a server/event with not many people in it.

Tracks don't really bother me, but I find the FZ5 a pig to drive, and the RAC far worse. It's hard to enjoy racing when most of my energy goes into keeping the car pointing in the right direction even on a straight.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Tracks don't really bother me, but I find the FZ5 a pig to drive, and the RAC far worse. It's hard to enjoy racing when most of my energy goes into keeping the car pointing in the right direction even on a straight.

Either you are driving it wrong, or you are using a duff setup, because all of the drivers in RSWC have really, really good racing with both cars, they are both really stable and good to race once you have a good setup and get into the correct mindset.

Your attitude to those cars is indicative of one of the reasons why people don't drive them, simply because they don't "flatter" the driver the way other cars do, and take a bit of time and effort to get into the correct mindset.

Quote from AndroidXP :

It's not so much the content, but rather the stagnation of improvement in actually "important" areas that makes my interest in LFS slowly fade. I want better tyre simulation, brake heat/fade/wear, realistic setup options, aerodynamics, a proper damage model that finally penalises the current way chicanes are tackled... just, something that eradicates the most blatantly arcade-because-not-yet-implemented (:rolleyes areas of LFS.

What do we get? Multibyte character support. Great. Don't get me wrong, it is a great step to make LFS more accessible to Asian countries, but it just gives me the impression that it's not just improving slowly, but not improving at all in areas that truly matter (for me). Actually, I've already accepted and don't expect that we ever see a S3.

But then that's probably just me growing old of computer games in general

As harsh as that is, I totally agree. I'm getting bored with having to put up with driving a locked diff setup to be competetive... of having to circumvent the track layout... of getting that this-doesn't-feel-quite-right feeling every time the car starts breaking into a slide... of only having tyre temps and wear to worry about in a long race... of having a bahzillion setup options on cars that shouldn't really be there for everything... of not having separate slow and fast dampers for the GTR cars etc. The list goes on.

And what bothers me the most is that all us "die-hard" LFS fans (and I consider myself to be one of them... or at least have been, I don't know if that's fading now) kept looking to the next physics patch when things were going slowly last year and the year before. Whenever someone criticised LFS for lack of progress we'd say this is all preparation for a big physics push where all the right things will get revamped and LFS will really revolutionise sims.

And then we got gearbox improvements and clutch heat. And then some AI stuff except you still can't race with the AI. I don't mean to sound ungreatful because it *is* an improvement. I just can't help it feel that the time could have been better spent on tyres and aerodynamics. The gearbox stuff is barely noticable most of the time! And suddenly I find myself looking back to when the last good physics patch was and that's nearly two years ago now. And I look forward to when the next physics patch will be and I see that there's a good chance that it will only be here around the end of the year. The only thing that could restore my faith is a BIG (ie. it should take 4 months at least) physics only patch or two consecutive smaller ones affecting the right areas before the year is out.

"Boohoo, the hotlaps have to get deleted!" - so what? It's Alpha software. The hotlappers can deal with it. And it's not like it will split the community now. We have automatic updates.

EDIT: Just saw Hyperactive's post too. That's to a certain extent true too, it's not all about the system but the content too. A lot of the content isn't exactly great. I think LFS has gotten itself into a mess by not doing things right *the first time* but rather going back and improving them so very few things are "finished".

Quote from AndroidXP :

...

Couldn't have said it better. End of.

Quote :

Your attitude to those cars is indicative of one of the reasons why people don't drive them, simply because they [...] take a bit of time and effort

It's taken me months (literally) to learn to push cars like the LX6 and XRR. The time and effort I've invested into them despite at times feeling completely defeated I feel excludes me from the cba to try crowd.

Btw, I think the RAC has great potential to "flatter", but perhaps in a future patch for me.

I know that multibyte character support of whatever will bring in a few more people from other countries, but I'm sure that another step towards realism or new cars / tracks will bring in far more people

Actually, we better stop moaning because this is turning into a Scavier bashing thread, and soon we will have to pay for patches

I'm not convinced a lack of track or car variations is the problem here. I think Dan is touching on the real issue. But it is totally natural for any LFS player to have a 'playing lifecycle' if you like. And players will join, play and stop playing again and the period in which that happens will vary depending on the individual.

There are over 900 combos to choose from although I do accept that some of them are very similar to each other.

The quality of the race experience is LFS is second to none in my opinion and while the crash detection physics are still well off and ofcourse a bit of lag thrown in exacerbates these, the physics and effects of setup changes are excellent. So it is these elements of LFS that you must have people see for it to be successful. And it must be targeted towards those individuals most likely to appreciate these elements.

One problem is that you need to have played LFS for a significant period to start to tune in to the physics and really appreciate them and the race experience.

But I don't think these great elements of LFS come across in the first impression that LFS leaves on a new player. I think this means many newbies turn away from LFS pretty quickly because the sound and graphics don't appear to be as good as some other sims at first glance. I think this is another element of the problem.

But I believe the biggest issue of all is simply awareness. I am not exagerating at all when I say I have never met anyone else who has ever discovered LFS independently of me. My mate showed it to me two and a half years ago and had it not been for him I would have never known about it.

Sure, you may find the odd dude on Piston Heads who has played it but as for the general population of the UK, no one even knows it exists. Not sure what the case is in Germany, France Holland etc.

Ofcouse Scavier doesn't have the resouces of a Sony or an EA Sports to promote this game but it still feels like the general awareness of LFS is simply too small to generate the online numbers required to maintain a decent public racing experience. And as that is what LFS is all about I think more thought and gyle need to be applied to activities that raise awareness.

So I guess what I'm saying is that you have to accept that players come and go. The most successful online racing sim will be the one that lengthens each 'player lifecycle' the most (which I believe LFS already does) and also promotes most effectively to groups of individuals who will most likely appreciate the elements of LFS that we all know to be so good.

I'd love to see LFS promoted at Trackdays or Motor Shows for example.

Thats all well and good, but the dev team have stated numerous times that they wouldn't actively advertise LFS untill it was finished, so don't hold your breath on that one......

Well I´ve been flying in fs2004 for about 2 weeks now, and haven´t even touched the LFS shortcut for a while.

This because it´s good time for flying now at winter when u can´t do anything else cos here isn´t even snow so it´s very hard to do any wintersports.
And I think that this is familiar for other player also: You CAN be bored on LFS. It happens in regular cycle.
U play LFS 2 months; u get fed up with it and play something else for a month. Then LFS feels kind of new and fresh cos u have played something else lately.

Well at least thats how it goes for me

Quote from Gentlefoot :

Normally there would be Redline Racing or a CTRA server but everywhere is deserted.

Most of the frequent forum posters have recently been banned from Redline because we dared to criticise certain elements of its management. The bannings and loss of credibility have led to a decline in the Redline servers. The only decent place to race the single seaters now is the CTRA servers, which have a full FBM server but don't have a straight FOX server, IMO the Formula Junior thing should be scrapped and it should just be left as a straight FOX server which might encourage interest.

Quote from AndroidXP :

What do we get? Multibyte character support. Great. Don't get me wrong, it is a great step to make LFS more accessible to Asian countries, but it just gives me the impression that it's not just improving slowly, but not improving at all in areas that truly matter (for me). Actually, I've already accepted and don't expect that we ever see a S3.

Well get organized and do as any decent syndicate would do - go on a game-wide strike, get a few decent slogans down on some skins and probably even do a virtual march (or roll if you prefer).

Quote from danowat :

Thats all well and good, but the dev team have stated numerous times that they wouldn't actively advertise LFS untill it was finished, so don't hold your breath on that one......

I was thinking more of the devs finding ways of encouraging promotional activity rather than doing it directly themselves. Commission schemes or whatever. Get the community to do the work for them.