Hate to sound like a broken record with my opinion (for those that know it)

Basically this game is "old" people are bored with content (those that have been around for 3-4 years or more) , people move on and come back now and again to see whats happening , statiscally the game is doing "ok" turnover of new racers/old.
What disturbs me is how the Devs have let things like cruise servers stay part of this RACING SIMULATOR

Problem is you guys ike nothing more then to bitch and whinge. (i am also guilty see above ^ & below)

The problem, the majority of these issues (imo) are the amount of useless servers (although "some people" will argue that everyone has a right to host). Also that none (read majority of admins+racers ) of you are willing to sit on a server to get it populated, back in "the old days" i know some of the long serving members/racers of this community would be on a server for hours, watching like a hawk. Also you have insim coder wannabe's creating this problem with cruise servers and other things that run a bit deeper like CTRA midly affecting the breeding ground of the comunity.
Im sick of people thinking its a decline in users, although some forms of racing are sufferung very badly. Its a shift of focus .. nothing more, nothing less imo.

Live for Speed
What ever happened to that ?
Live to Cruise & drift (and race when you can find it eh)

Quote from Gentlefoot :

I was thinking more of the devs finding ways of encouraging promotional activity rather than doing it directly themselves. Commission schemes or whatever. Get the community to do the work for them.

The community already do a bang up job of advertising the sim, pretty much the only people that do...........

Quote from danowat :

"Wierd" isn't what the masses want, I have run 3 seasons (around 8 events each) of the RSSC/RSWC, which is FZ5 & RAC, and we have struggled to fill half of the grid in most of the races

Bottomline, if you open a server/event with those sorts of combo's people don't want them, so you are left with a server/event with not many people in it.

I dunno what the answer is

Yes, but not everybody wants to or is able to commit to league racing.
It's a totally different ball game to pick-ups.

I've only been playing a year and a bit so am just getting around to trying the LRF cars, which is proving to be a proper challenge!

The flavour of the provious posts have been spot on imo, it's more tracks we need. Not variations or RL tracks, not more cars,just give us 3 new environments and tart up FB & WE Jobs a good 'un

Physics I can wait for, the way they are just now doesn't leave me feeling "OMG THIS IS ALL WRONG!!"

Surely the attendances are a bit cylical in nature anyway? I mean, after a dark, sh!tty January maybe folks raced quite a bit and are now racing less?

Quote from HVS5b :

Yes, but not everybody wants to or is able to commit to league racing.
It's a totally different ball game to pick-ups.

I've only been playing a year and a bit so am just getting around to trying the LRF cars, which is proving to be a proper challenge!

The flavour of the provious posts have been spot on imo, it's more tracks we need. Not variations or RL tracks, not more cars,just give us 3 new environments and tart up FB & WE Jobs a good 'un

Physics I can wait for, the way they are just now doesn't leave me feeling "OMG THIS IS ALL WRONG!!"

Surely the attendances are a bit cylical in nature anyway? I mean, after a dark, sh!tty January maybe folks raced quite a bit and are now racing less?

All that adding another track or car will do is create a short time spike in online numbers. We see the same thing every time a patch is released. It doesn't help over the long term at all.

Well I for one am going to go increase the amount of online racers.
Want to join me on CTRA Race 2?

I have to admit that after almost 2 years I've also started loosing a bit of my interest on LFS. Not badly, though!

For me, RL tracks would dramatically boost my interest (secondly physics, thirdly sound and then graphics). I'm not entitled to dictate in which way they should enter the LFS world, but I honestly believe a whole new LFS era would start if RL tracks make their way into the game.

Just my 2 c

Quote from March Hare :

Well I for one am going to go increase the amount of online racers.
Want to join me on CTRA Race 2?

I'd love to. If it wasn't for this damned inconvenience called work :banghead:

Quote from xaotik :

Well get organized and do as any decent syndicate would do - go on a game-wide strike, get a few decent slogans down on some skins and probably even do a virtual march (or roll if you prefer).

That really isn't the right attitude to a problem. There clearly *is* a problem when this many "die hards" are complaining.

Quote from migf1 :

For me, RL tracks would dramatically boost my interest (secondly physics, thirdly sound and then graphics). I'm not entitled to dictate in which way they should enter the LFS world, but I honestly believe a whole new LFS era would start if RL tracks make their way into the game.

I agree, but people would start complaining about how that pothole in the outside of the 4th bend should be 3cm deeper.

I mean, come on, LFS is not the McLaren simulator! and it will never be (at least if you want it to run on a normal PC) do we really need millimeter accurate tracks to have fun?

If you have 100% physics accuracy, the you can go and ask for 100% accurate terrain, but if physics are not "millimeter" accurate, what's the point of worrying about how many millimeters should have the kerb of Spa's "Bus stop"?

There are enough info available to create pretty accurate tracks without using iRacing laser gadget, and they can prove tons of fun, having great physics is great, but we are all motor sport fans, we love those legendary tracks, we've dreamed of driving in them, and I think that's why we are into simulators.

Just another 2c

PS: Someone said this could end in a Scavier bashing thread. Well, I think we can perfectly discuss these topics without meaning "You devs suck", it's just opinions, not orders or bashings. If we didn't like LFS we wouldn't be here for sure.

Id say it was just normal really.. Personally, I dont race LFS as much as I used to.

I practice for the two current leagues Im competing in, and drive their races obviously, other than that, I have more entertaining things to do at the moment.

as for QUALITY RL tracks, there are tons out there that can be converted & I know a number of very talented track makers that can do the level of work consistant with LFS.

I can`t understand why people want a real life track. Screw that, any kind of track is good. The current tracks in game are good, and if we would have anything new that is on that level I would be more than enough happy with that. But I guess people belives that they get bigger cocks if they can drive a RL track fast in LFS

To quote something :

DAMN YOU ALL!! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!

Quote from xtm :

As said above, any kind of global approval team will discourage people from working on making new tracks: it takes time, effort and you don't want to waste it all if the "approval team" doesn't like your track.

This can be looked at as a good thing as well. Not everyone is capable of creating an excellent track. If you look at other sims, most who are creating tracks make horrible tracks. If the track modder does high quality work, and he will know he does high quality work, he will know his track would be approved and he will pt the time and effort in. I wouldn't want the sub-par "look at me, I made a track" modders creating content for LFS.

The downside is, everyone seems to want real tracks (looking at the last 4 years worth of this topic of content). If there was an approval system sanctioned by LFS in any way, the real tracks fly right out the window because of the licensing issue.

I do find it very humorous again about some of the folks over the years who complain about modding and not being able to create real tracks for LFS. They are the same people who jump all over crackers, skin stealing, and spout about copyright of skins and such. Yet, they find it perfectly ok to copy real tracks, tracks that are someone elses' intellectual property just as your personal skin design is your own intellectual property. They jump all over the torrent site that copied the LFS logo, yet have no problem with copying a track without acquiring the proper licensing to copy it....

I dunno about everyone elsebut the reason I haven't been on to often is because midterms are coming up next week, and myinternet has been sucking it up in the dorms and have to write this to you via my iPod.

for me anyway driving a RL track enhances my enjoyment of watching a race on tv, when they say that's a hard corner combination I KNOW what they are getting at, or when I hear that Schuey takes eau rouge flat out I really know how hard that is to get right time & again

Quote from The Very End :

I can`t understand why people want a real life track. Screw that, any kind of track is good. The current tracks in game are good, and if we would have anything new that is on that level I would be more than enough happy with that. But I guess people belives that they get bigger cocks if they can drive a RL track fast in LFS

To quote something :

DAMN YOU ALL!! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!

Completely agreed.

I don't do pick-up racing too much these times, practising for leagues and doing those leagues is much more fun in my opinion.

As far as it concerns me, RL tracks play major role in what is called "immersion" (gfx and sound help too). Also, RL tracks will open a door to the outside world for LFS, where everybody else (and especially motorsport entusiasts) have a common code of communication (point of reference or whatever other expression comes in your mind for that matter).

Actually if you really think of it, RL tracks would do more good than harm to LFS, in almost all directions. It's up to the devs firstly and the community secondly not to misuse them.

As I have already said, I'm not entitled to dictate what's the best way of bringing RL tracks into LFS. But I'm entitled to express politely a healthy opinion about the sim I like most, whithout having people responding (even indirectly) with references to my... cock

They had the chance to add a RL track to LFS, but choose not too.

Quote from danowat :

Personally, outside of the leagues we organise, and practicing for IGTC, I am finding it tough to get the motivation to race, I reckon in the last 3 months I have played "public" racing for probably less than 3 hours.

The combo's are boring, the physics engine still has the same flaws, the graphics are looking dated, the only thing that keeps me playing LFS at all is the people that play it, and the racing that can be found by playing these people, if that wasn't there, I would have moved away from LFS completely a while ago.

TBH, I am getting more FUN by picking up and playing Forza 2 for an hour, than I do picking up and playing public LFS racing, sad but true........

Quoted for truth.
I haven't driven LFS outside of event-preparation for over a year now.

Vain

Quote from danowat :

They had the chance to add a RL track to LFS, but choose not too.

i would say tracks ... when I worked at the second largest racetrack in our country, told the owners about LFS and what was their oppinion on having their track in LFS, they were all for it and the only condition they had, was that the track must be done accurately, with all banners etc., they did not even want some money for the "track license" ... that's more than two years ago...
The same with real car manufacturer... I asked at Skoda Auto, they understood that it was more advertisement for them then the other way around... but in both cases the devs said maybe sometime in the future... some time passed and nothing... so I gave up on this...

Maybe the devs do need a kick up the backside now and again, maybe they dont
Speaking for myself again, i need constant motivation from external influences.
What i was speaking about eariler wasnt "dev bashing", just to re-ittereate the essence of the meaning of "live for speed" form the perspctive i have.

Axus to follow on from your point/
There was constant exitement, anticipation "back in the days"
Thats half the problem i think its just as much "fun" or as "serious" as it has always been. The problem its harder to find it, for pickup races.
Why , simple we have an influx of this "its ok its just a bit of fun" attitude when it comes to servers. We already had an issue of empty servers with a few regular names that servered the community very well.
Then along came RedlineRacing and CTRA and the onlsaught of insim mods (not that i think they dont deserve to do what they do some of the apps are fantastic)
What im merely saying that this small community has been fractured to even smaller groups over the last 2 years or so.
The amount of ignorance by those who claim to be in it for the game, is laughable sometimes. I think some people have their own agendas when commenting on issues regarding the userbase of LFS.

Meanwhile, somewhere in Bedorf, MA...

Dave: Hey John, come here, have a look at this thread...

John: Damn, have we got it right, Davieboy, or have we?

Dave: We sure have, Johnnybaby, we sure have. Gimme Five!

(they give eachother a High-Five)

Dave: About the pricing, though...

John: Don't worry, they'll pay, they'll pay...

(John off in sardonic laughter)

Quote from March Hare :

Well I for one am going to go increase the amount of online racers.
Want to join me on CTRA Race 2?

Sure! I'll be there in about three hours. Got some stuff that needs doing first.

On topic: as a n00b, I can't see myself getting tired of the content of the game as it is now for at least a couple of years. There are so many cars to learn, so many tracks.. but I can defnitely see that for the veterans, a new track would be nice. However, I think that if the devs have to choose between new tracks and physics improvements, I think they should definitely go with the latter, because it will benefit everyone in the community. The veterans will have to learn the game again (kind of), bringing it extra longevity for them, and the n00bs will find the game even more appealing than it already is.

Quote from Linsen :

Meanwhile, somewhere in Bedorf, MA...

Dave: Hey John, come here, have a look at this thread...

John: Damn, have we got it right, Davieboy, or have we?

Dave: We sure have, Johnnybaby, we sure have. Gimme Five!

(they give eachother a High-Five)

Dave: About the pricing, though...

John: Don't worry, they'll pay, they'll pay...

(John off in sardonic laughter)

harhar?

Would have been slightly funny if it was kunos instead of davey. Bono tutti nkpro, Haa Haa HAAh!

(what ever it means)

I mostly agree with Gentlefoot and tonyonparas here...

I don't think the issue is with tracks or cars or even with the game's physics. I think LFS is still, by far, the most complete racing experience on the table, and I think that until that's no longer true, the fluctuations we have in online numbers (which, as those graphs pointed out earlier, are minor) are due entirely to driver exhaustion. Everyone I know well in the LFS community goes through a cycle where they get really into LFS for a few months to a year and then have a few month period where they simply have no interest in touching the game. They just get burned out.

I think that the S2 community in general is also moving (collectively) more toward league or at least systematized racing (i.e. CTRA), which means that the well-populated pickup servers of the past are sort of dinosaurs. Personally, until I started racing CTRA SS1/2 again in the last couple weeks, I had done basically zero pickup racing in the past year. I drive in 2-3 leagues and admin 2-3 more on a pretty consistent basis, which leaves very little time/motivation to just pick up and drive. Most of the time I'm practicing with my team for the next league event.

I think that there is some general exhaustion with the "same old same old," but I also think that we'll all (or most of us) continue driving it until there's a more viable alternative (and maybe even past that point, given the loyalty many of us have to the sim).