Hi All,
My name's Stu and I'm new to these forums, thou I've been an avid LFS player for some time now.

My goal is to boost the performance of my computer, and gaming experience by changing out my video card. I currently have:

Dell Dimension 4500
Pentium 4 1.8GHz
512MB DDR SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive
Logitech Momo Force Feedback Wheel
Sony 400Watt Mini Hi-Fi Component System (for pc and ps2 speakers via composite cables)
64MB GeForce4 MX420 w/tv out
Dell W1700 17'' HDTV Monitor @ 1280X768 60Hz (widescreen tv/monitor that I use for triple duty (pc, tv, ps2)


My system is fairly clean, and runs well enough on LFS and CS:S, HL2. I want to upgrade my video card to a 256MB unit that can boost the "prettyness" of the graphics on LFS, as well as slightly better accomadate any proE or Autocad work I might be doing (mech engr student).

The monitor supports DVI, and analog (which I'm currently using). I'm not looking to set the world on fire, only a modest update at a modest price. I want to keep the price as low as possible, as this is a 4-year old pc, and I will be upgrading to a new pc with a nice pci-express type graphics card soon enough. *I might want to be able to play BF2 on this pc at some point. I am a budget minded college student who games, but lives on his pc. I feel my graphics card is the current weak link in my set-up, and would like to upgrade without going overboard.

Has anyone here had any experience with these cards, or have any recommendations? Thanks!

#1 eVGA GeForce5500 Video Card (256MB, AGP 8X, DVI, 2D/3D w/tv-out) Core Clock 270MHz, Memory Clock 400MHz.
Price: $54.00- $15 mail-in rebate = $39.00 after mail-in rebate!
pros: awesome price.
cons: not supported for bf2. (i heard a way to get around this though), ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ ... &CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r

#2 Sapphire Radeon 9600XT (128MB, 128-bit DDR, AGP 4x, 8x) Core Clock 500MHz, Memory Clock 600MHz, RAMDAC 400MHz.
Price: $87.00
pros: looks good, fast clock speeds. ?
cons: 128MB memory..., ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ ... .asp?Item=N82E16814102510

#3 Sapphire Radeon 9600 Atlantis (256MB, 128-bit DDR, AGP) Core Clock 325MHz
Price: $68.00
pros: 256MB, supports BF2, ?
cons: question over 128 or 256MB, ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ ... .asp?Item=N82E16814102320

#4 eVGA GeForce 6600GT 128MB, 128-bit DDR, AGP, DVI, Core Clock 500MHz, Memory Clock 900MHz
Price: $119.00 after mail-in rebate
pros: new, speed, power
cons: power supply Minimum 350watts, available 4-pin Molex Hard Drive power dongle

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ ... .asp?Item=N82E16814130220

All of these have DVI, which is a priority.
All (most now) of these cost under 100 dollars, which is a big plus.
All of these appear to be a large improvement over my current card.
Anyone have experience with either these chipsets, or something similar cost wise. I'm willing to really only go up to 100 bucks right now, but only if it would be a large improvement over the GeForce 5500FX listed.

Will these support my display and display resolution? The ati site didn't list the 1280x768 resolution? Anybody know/can check? Which should I buy?

Thanks so much,
Stu

This is what worried me about the radeon cards.

http://www.ati.com/products/ra ... /radeon9600pro/specs.html

*16:9 aspect ratio monitors are supported on 1920x1080 and 848x480 on Windows® XP, Windows® 2000 and Windows® ME. The complete list of resolutions depends on the driver version and operating system. NOTE: resolutions are limited by the performance of the attached monitor.

256MB cards can be slower so don't decide a graphics card just on that. The 9600XT has the highest clock and memory speeds out of them so I'd go with that.

Don't worry about the resolutions with the monitor, you've not got it setup as high as that or as low as that so you'll be fine.

Quote from Leifde :

256MB cards can be slower so don't decide a graphics card just on that. The 9600XT has the highest clock and memory speeds out of them so I'd go with that.

Don't worry about the resolutions with the monitor, you've not got it setup as high as that or as low as that so you'll be fine.

I'm currently running at 1280x768.

Yep, 128 or 256MB doesn't make that much of a difference (now) and pretty much anything is better than the MX440. The 9600XT sounds reasonable, alteast if playing BF2 is important to you. The GF 5xxx series is pretty crap and that's also the reason it's so cheap.

Anyways, every of these cards would make your LFS experience quite better, not only because you could turn on more AA/AF, but also because they support HVS, contrary to your MX440. HVS gives the CPU more time for the physics so it can make quite a difference to your FPS.
1000 posts, suckers! ^_^

If you can afford a $140 card, the 6600GT 128MB AGP would really be best. It's significantly better than all the cards you listed.

As for the resolution support, I would be very surprised if the ATI cards did not support the full range of 16:9 resolutions. I think that's actually what they mean in the sentence you quoted, the range supported.

Quote from srdsprinter :

I'm currently running at 1280x768.

Ah, I misread it. You can always contact ATI and ask them if it supports the resolutions. I'll look for a good graphics card under $100 and post it here soon.

EDIT: I found one: 3DFuzion GeForce FX 6200 / 128 ... VGA / TV-Out / Video Card
It'll be way better than you have now. It's cheaper than the 9600XT but it needs a 300W power supply, I'd recommend opening up your computer and checking what it is, it should say on it.

Quote from Forbin :

If you can afford a $140 card, the 6600GT 128MB AGP would really be best. It's significantly better than all the cards you listed.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ ... .asp?Item=N82E16814130220

6600GT sounds Very Cool. Found one on newegg.com for $119.00 after mail-in rebate. Sounds good. It's on the table for discussion now. New questions arise though.

Will these cards need to be connected to the power supply with an atachment other than the AGP slot? If so will my pc have this?

This model dell has a 250Watt average Power Supply. I understand that it is completely adequate for all cards that need the 300 watt power supply, as the dell actually has a peak over 300. Something along these lines, it is not to worry.

I've been rethinking my budget considerations, and 120ish wont break the bank, but I really just want something that will work well with the computer, and hold me over till I can really get a new 'next-gen' pc (dual-core, pci-express graphics, and all the bells-and-whistles).

1. 6600GT is a good bang-for-buck because it's technically identical to the 6800 and can be VBIOS-flashed to become a 6800, which really has a lot of power.
(Though please note that flashing the VBIOS will void the guarantee)
2. You may try the 250W power suply, but most propably this won't be enough. Think in orders of 350W.
3. The video card needs an extra power-connector. Search for a 4-blank-pin male connector on your power suply unit.

Vain

Quote from Vain :

1. 6600GT is a good bang-for-buck because it's technically identical to the 6800 and can be VBIOS-flashed to become a 6800, which really has a lot of power.

I think you are confusing something here. 6200 PCIe versions can become 6600, and 6800GS AGP can become 6800 XT (?) but I don't think 6600GT can be modded to anything else.

6600GT looks really nice. Since my Dell has 250 watt power supply, the card nessicitates a new power supply.

What do I need to look for in a power supply? What is the connector to the card from the power supply, 4 pin? How much will this cost.

I want the GT, but if its going to also nessesitate a $100 investment in a power supply, then I really think the 9600XT is the way for me to go. 200+ dollars is not what I'm looking for at this time...

For the 6600GT, the power connecor is the same as for HD (at least for mine : Point of View 6600GT, but I'm pretty sure for all 6600GT)

For the PSU, I think a good 400 or 450W is enough, maybe a 350W. (6600GT uses 50W in 3D as I remember) : http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl ... y/geforce6600gt-oc_3.html
300W is a bit short, I've had a Fortron 300W, was heating up.

Edit : CG power cons updated

Thanks for the link! Interesting stuff, I'm looking up Power Supplies, and finding they aren't too expensive!

Does it make any difference if the video card is AGP or PCI-express?

Lol, yes ^^

The slots are physically different, not compatible ^^

So if your mobo is AGP, don't buy a PCI-E

Quote from mosquito25 :

Lol, yes ^^

The slots are physically different, not compatible ^^

So if your mobo is AGP, don't buy a PCI-E

yes, I meant the power consumption, power supply hook-up, voltage in, heat out.

The PCI-E version doesn't need an extra power supply and is higher clocked, IIRC.

Quote from srdsprinter :

6600GT looks really nice. Since my Dell has 250 watt power supply, the card nessicitates a new power supply.

What do I need to look for in a power supply? What is the connector to the card from the power supply, 4 pin? How much will this cost.

I want the GT, but if its going to also nessesitate a $100 investment in a power supply, then I really think the 9600XT is the way for me to go. 200+ dollars is not what I'm looking for at this time...

I wouldn't worry about the PSU. As long as you have a free 4-pin connector, you'll be fine. I'm running a much higher-end system than you with a 250W PSU. All of my power connectors are used up but it runs great. My specs are as follows:

AMD Athlon XP 3000+ 2.1GHz (Barton core)
512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM
ASUS A7N-8X motherboard
GF 6800GT 128MB AGP
120GB IBM/Hitachi 120GXP
60GB IBM 60GXP
CD-RW burner

Quote from Forbin :

I wouldn't worry about the PSU. As long as you have a free 4-pin connector, you'll be fine. I'm running a much higher-end system than you with a 250W PSU. All of my power connectors are used up but it runs great. My specs are as follows:

AMD Athlon XP 3000+ 2.1GHz (Barton core)
512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM
ASUS A7N-8X motherboard
GF 6800GT 128MB AGP
120GB IBM/Hitachi 120GXP
60GB IBM 60GXP
CD-RW burner

Awesome!

If it is too much for the system I did find some seemingly pretty nice ~400watt systems for around $40 so it wouldn't be too much more of an investment.

I am definatly leaning strongly to the 6600GT now. The eVGA model, for $119.00 at newegg.com seems to be what I'm leaning towards. 380+ reviews at 5 out of 5 'eggs'. Only cons seem to be that they run hot on some PC's.


BTW: What are the 4 pin hard drive connectors? i.e. 3.3 volts? 5 volts?

Thanks so much to everyone here for your help!

The molex connections have +3.3v, +5v, +12v and ground rails as I understand it. But this is getting a bit electronic-y and I'm out of my depth.

Yep, I believe you're right, taa, along with ground. Thus 4 pins.

that 6600gt will be choked there, that cpu is a bottleneck for that card, i should know i have a p4 2.4 and its still not enough.

oh, i just sold my 6600GT to someone for $95...

But yah, 6600GT is a good card..

Also. you CAN NOT change the power supply in 99% of the dells, they use a propritary atx connector. If you change it your whole system will go up in a flaming ball of pc parts.

Yes, the 6600GT GPU gets pretty hot with standard heatsink (mine was 73°c when playing or benchmarking), but a Zalman VF700 Al-Cu gave me a full 20°C gain (GPU heat 53°C) with far better overclocking. Checked with SpeedFan, so I had a 12mn graph).

As I know there's only 1 restriction : that heatsink needs a wide case (at least on AGP cards)

And the true reason for changing was the noise level only , not the heat (73° is not so high for a GPU)

here is a pic : http://img195.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dvc011966lc.jpg
In my case (210mm wide) : http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dvc011944qp.jpg
Edit: you can see the card's power connector on the right side, same as HD

Quote from Roadie :

Also. you CAN NOT change the power supply in 99% of the dells, they use a propritary atx connector. If you change it your whole system will go up in a flaming ball of pc parts.

:jawdrop: omg, thanks for that, Roadie.

Quote from Roadie :

oh, i just sold my 6600GT to someone for $95...

But yah, 6600GT is a good card..

Also. you CAN NOT change the power supply in 99% of the dells, they use a propritary atx connector. If you change it your whole system will go up in a flaming ball of pc parts.

I've just read about this, it seems right around the time my model came out, the dimension 4500, the atx connector was being switched to a standard atx. No idea if mine is standard or not.

I'd hate to risk hurting the card or computer if it was underpowered. Since my processor is going to limit the performance of the card anyway, and the dimension 4500 only has AGP 4X, I think the 6600gt might be overkill for my needs.

The 9600xt might be more balanced card for my rig...

Quote from the_angry_angel :

The molex connections have +3.3v, +5v, +12v and ground rails as I understand it. But this is getting a bit electronic-y and I'm out of my depth.

Nope, it's 12V, 5V, 12V-Ground, 5V-Ground. :sun: