The racing cars (open seaters, R cars) only got 26 degrees steering lock, and the other cars got 36, we want 40-50 steering lock on RWD Cars, not all the racing cars...
The racing cars (open seaters, R cars) only got 26 degrees steering lock, and the other cars got 36, we want 40-50 steering lock on RWD Cars, not all the racing cars...
Quite.
sigh again.
The GTR cars IRL would NOT be able to have 45 degree AT ALL.
There is just NOT the space under the hood for BIG wheels with a car that sits low and that has a big engine to FIT 45degree lock.
Please do not confuse the GTR cars with a drifters cars, they are VERY VERY different. GTR cars are created with a single purpose in mind. This is the cause of the limitation on steering lock, race cars do not need big lock so the space is used for other things.
The lock USED to be 45degrees for all cars years back but the dev team lowered it to REALISTIC levels for the cars. Drifters fit AFTER MARKET parts to extend the locks. These have not been fitted to the cars.
It has JUST be stated that allowing the lock DOES effect racers, so will probably not happen.
Your best bet is to ask for a specific car for drifters that DOES allow the settings and that DOES not effect racing. Anything else will get HUGE resistance.
HTH
You can do nearly 90 degree drifts with the angle we have now.
Stop asking for new setup possibilities and go practice!
show me a production car that comes with 4 different types of LSD, fully adjustable suspension and nearly infinitely many gear ratios.
BOTTOM LINE: LFS = race sim and hence the cars in LFS have a bias for racing, NOT drifting. Allowing the options you ask for DOES EFFECT racing, the PRIMARY activity for LFS.
Show me a car tuned for racing that has 45degree lock
Many here want the setup options on the road based cars to be VERY limited and you will probably find this will come. I know many would like the gears for example selected by number of teeth to make setting more realistic.
But currently the huge selection settings are a hangup to pre S1 days when they helped getting the physics right. The huge range of settings are no longer required for the slower cars and hopefully will be limited at some point.
Something like the UF1 for example should have hardly ANY setup options that can be changed.
Read what he said:
Well.. You might have as well written "everyone". Many, many people were up for a new car. Current cars are shit cars the way they are. LFS has no proper high powered RWD car that is light and has good weight distribution. The only reason I use Fz5 to drift is because it's best compromise beetwen power and cornering ability. But show pictures to drifters from real life that have no idea about lfs and first thought they have is that it must not be realistic. A game where cars that are drifted are Porsches and Caterhams - brillant.
As I have stated "million" times, if a racer complains that he would need more steering lock than 36 degree to catch slides in street cars(as it ONLY CONCERNS STREET CARS).. Well. Sorry to hear that, but this racer must be slow fish at the back of the field. If you have to catch slides with any lock that needs a lot of countersteering it means you are slow! You must realise that a racer has to be as smooth as possible to be fast. If you are one that is racing in the back field of races everytime, then I also understand that this might concern you - when racers with 45 degree somehow manage to save spin(and are slow), while you spin with 36 degrees of lock.. This must be frustrating ? Don't feel offended, I am being sartastic here when talking precisely as "you" in part of saving spins.
Honestly, This is same as if I complained that a mouse user can turn to max lock in 0.2-0.3 second, while I can't because I'm using G25.
Therfor my point is - it would only affect racers that are slow and are in the back of the field. Once they learn to drive they won't even steer to the max lock to save spins when racing.
I won't even mention the fact how easy steering lock mod is(in real life) compared to many currently avaible mods in lfs.
But well, who cares. LFS gets even a "cruise" servers filter, as receiving official support for cruise servers, but won't even get a support for real motorsport, that is drifting.
edit:
There is a difference beetwen Sim getting too strict and allowing people to do things that would be extremely expensive in real life IMO. It won't do any good to LFS if it gets too strict. I always loved LFS for the fact how open sim it was, how it allowed things that are possibile in real life without limiting players - that is the power of LFS to me. The power that comes from its physics engine.
well just have restrictions on the entry car's setup on the server, just like filters... just like real spec racing!
well, how about this... adjustable STEERING RACKS, if people choose to have unreasonable locks, they will either break the car(if they do it on FF cars) or not be able to fit too big of a steering rack into the car(ie: like when they install a big steering rack on cars with too big of an engine...)
just imagine if you had a garage full of differentials and gear boxes, and you can pick any combo that you desire!
Not really. Drifters posted comments like "I am a drifter and I voted no" So I know exactly WHAT I meant, you can try ALL you like to put the words in my mouth you would LIKE me to say
In the end it does not matter what you lot WANT. I can't see you getting it. Scawen is focused on racing. LFS is popular with drifters because of the physics but that does not mean he will add stuff to encourage it
Just look at cruise servers, filtered OUT by default.
You can all bitch as much as you like. You know the reasons why 45degrees wont get in. Every time this topic comes up it goes round and around. Everything that needs to be said has been. I am out of here.
I cant wait until body rub is implemented
Body rub is standard at my place Woz.
rotf
Hank, I'll be there by 6:00.
Erm... If the cars in LFS are so shit for drifting because of all that above how will more lock solve the problem?
You obviously need a car designed for drifting. Not just more lock.
But I definitely agree with you on the point about cruising getting more support from the devs than drifting. Drifting IS a competitive activity involving cars. Cruising isn't.
Someone please bury this goddamn thread.
When you said drifters it looked as if all drifters. Don't talk for everyone - that was my point.
I would like to see official statement from Scawen, because when you say it, it means just nothing unless you in 100% know what is in Scawen head.
Honestly, every this discussion would be solved if Scawen said something. Either NEVER more lock, or NEVER support for drifting as a better car, or MAYBE in future. Notice how you guys defend this "NO 36 LOCK" by stating what Scawen thinks, how can you be so sure what he thinks? Some kind of Yoda trick? :spyoda:
It would recompansate things in a way. There are weird cars drifting in real life and more lock would be a good option till Scawen adds some new bettter street car(If he adds). I know what I'm talking about, because I've been already testing more lock by simply editing memory value. Those 45 degrees would make things better.
Catching a slide is so easy already that addition of some 10 degrees more steering lock wouldn't make it any easier. Imho, it is a bit daft point.
Imho, it is perfectly valid to have a car that is more drifting than racing orientated.
A perfect solution would be to lock down the setu options of the current roadcars (XRT/FZ/RA) and create a new tuned class above them. More power, more steering lock, more racability and driftability while still being road legal cars. And preferably new models, even if it would take Eric 6 years to model 3 new cars.
(party at Hank's)
Imho, it is perfectly valid to have a car that is more drifting than racing orientated.
A perfect solution would be to lock down the setu options of the current roadcars (XRT/FZ/RA) and create a new tuned class above them. More power, more steering lock, more racability and driftability while still being road legal cars. And preferably new models, even if it would take Eric 6 years to model 3 new cars.
(party at Hank's)
kamkorPL,
Nobody can say what anyone really thinks, only take a guess.
And it's a pretty good guess that the dev(s) of this game, who have invested so much time into making a high-fidelity racing simulator, for no other reason than because they have a passion for racing simulators, have little time for implementing things that are specific only to drifting.
The ability to drift is a natural by-product of a realistic simulator. Drifting has never been the focal point to this game in any regard whatsoever from cars, tracks, race setup, car setups or anything. Just a by-product of realistic racing. So you can have a pretty educated guess at what the dev(s) of the game have in mind for the future and I doubt it involves drifting.
I could be wrong.
Nobody can say what anyone really thinks, only take a guess.
And it's a pretty good guess that the dev(s) of this game, who have invested so much time into making a high-fidelity racing simulator, for no other reason than because they have a passion for racing simulators, have little time for implementing things that are specific only to drifting.
The ability to drift is a natural by-product of a realistic simulator. Drifting has never been the focal point to this game in any regard whatsoever from cars, tracks, race setup, car setups or anything. Just a by-product of realistic racing. So you can have a pretty educated guess at what the dev(s) of the game have in mind for the future and I doubt it involves drifting.
I could be wrong.
Maybe it'll sound a little OT, but not as much as it seems at first.
You said that it'd allow peeps the catch the slides more easily. If you think about it, it's already there in some way. Let's say someone who drives "properly" (i.e. 720/900degrees, not mention the manual clutch etc here, doesn't belong to this) catching a slide is already a lot more "harder" than a guy who goes with 180/270. I'm not saying "let's limit LFS for 720+ only", because you just can't force everyone to buy a wheel that supports it, i agree, but on the other side this effect is still there. Other thought of catching a slide is that if someone learnt to drive already, i doubt "you'll" need to steer really more than 90degrees (speaking of 720 this time) anyway.
Besides the comments were made about this, i still doubt this'll ruin racing in any way.
You might say i'm a drifter and therefore being biased, but i race quite a lot aswell. Racing with 720/900 and seeing guys doing lock-to-lock in split of a second with a wheel can be frustrated too in my opinion
@Kamkor and the mouse myth
: Being a mouser for ages... first there was a "hey i'm doing it with mouse, it's harder because the lack of analog throttle/brake". But since driving with a wheel and proper degrees this turned totally to the other side. Now i say is the mousing is probably the easiest controller in lfs. Just wish i can get that "performance" like i had with that in some day.
Edit: Jugding by the posts about how perfectly suitable the cars for drifting, there are quite a lot professionals here, so i know this was started a few times, but why don't you start (once again) a drifting/driving "school". I'd be all down for take lessons and i think there are a lot of peoples too (could mention half a dozen already). //no sarcasm included
This guess is worthless. Again, I am playing liveforspeed actively online since may 2003 and wouldn't be able to even state that I'm guessing this is how it is, but you already seem to figured out what is in devs minds. Quote Scawen statements, don't guess.
Not to mention that you have to be explained about the whole discussion that was going on about drifting support in LFS. The additional high powered RWD street class cars wouldn't have to be just drifting addition. Light, high powered(for example 2.0 turbocharged ~400-500HP) rwd cars that are made for track days with additional options(like more lock) - car that you could build in real life without money that GTR car would need.
Equiped with street tires, high perfomance street tires(Semi slicks like Toyo R888) or even slicks. This is one class of cars that is missing in LFS that is beetwen current street cars class and GTR cars class.
This is what drift car suggestion thread turned into, into suggesting a new car that would be good for both drifters and racers.
edit:
I didn't mean it in this way that it's easier. I actually think that to me easier is what is closer to reality, because it makes driving more natural, makes driving like in real life. But it was just example to prove the point that you also explained in your post(About catching spins).
I'm interested to know how you came to this conclusion from reading my post?
I said I can have a good guess. I also said I could be wrong.
Don't put words in my mouth.
So basically you admit that you ran out of any logical arguements, and this only left you with guessing(Pretty good guessing as you state) what devs opinion is ?
Erm. Okay. Whatever. I'm not going to get into a silly fight. Anyone can read what I wrote and draw their own conclusions.
Gee, then why is it less than a 30 minute job to get over 40 degrees of lock from an ancient BMW with a simple tierod swap? It's all really as simple as installing tierods that go deeper in to the steering rack giving you more maximum lock, but also making your steering wheel turn more in return.
For example, stock E30 with powersteering has 4 turns (1440°) lock-to-lock, non-powersteered models have 4.4 turns (~1580°) lock-to-lock, but they have more steering lock giving them a smaller turning radius and making the steering a bit less nervous on winter. This is accomplished by the tierods going further deep in to the steering rack as I mentioned earlier. So, by swapping in non-powersteering tierods to a powersteering steering rack, you will now also have to turn your steering wheel extra 144 degrees more to GET to the additional steering lock you just gave your car.
If this would be taken in to account with LFS, it would be both realistic and it wouldn't bother the racing purists oh-so-much as they would have to turn their steering wheel more to get to max lock when they loose the control of their car. Unless most of the purists are driving on 180-270 degrees anyway, then it doesn't really matter even if we did have kazillion degrees of steering lock when the device in your hands is so horribly unrealistic to even begin with.
So, say that with having 36 degrees of steering lock as we have now, the steering of the street cars would be 720 degrees, like it currently is. But if you changed the lock to 45 degrees or so, the steering would also get slower as the "virtual" tierods are going further in to the steering rack demanding more turns out of the steering wheel. So 36° steering lock = 720° steering wheel, 45° steering lock = ~900° steering wheel? Though even with a steering like that, the steering of the LFS street cars would still be unrealistically way too fast compared to most of the real sports cars out there. If I recall correct, even some late 90's Porsches still had 3.5 turns (1260°) lock-to-lock.
All things considered, this thread is simply going nowhere. Purists attack the steering lock suggestion with the claim that LFS should not change itself one way or another and that it's "unrealistic" to make any changes to the steering, while drifters give out facts and real life samples. As Kam said, a simple acknowledgement from the devs to the issue would be pretty much the best thing that could happen. Yes or no, that's all the people need.
Correct me if I'm wrong (only new), but were you able to have 45 degree lock previously and the devs changed this and reduced it, saying "show me a car that has that much lock in real life" ... ? If so, what more confirmation do you need?
neat but i think i see a problem there
bmw are generally known for having rather a lot of caster and yours doesnt look like its an exception... unless you lower the caster you might run into problems with that much lock (although the floor cutter tyres might exagerate it in the pics)
and changing the caster by a significant amount is certainly more than a 30 min job
Drift Max. Lock
(624 posts, started )
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