Quote from ebola :

Nah wouldnt do that!! I forgot to quote Soro, I can see how it could have looked like I was calling you a fool. I will be more careful next time

:drink:

Quote from B2B@300 :

And Nick if thats all that was in the patch it's fine by me but I predict it will be abit sooner in that case

Oh it would be fine by me too.....if there was only one dev....but in case you didn't notice yet, what my prediction says is nothing appart from a new Aston config (which basically is just removing walls and putting others elsewhere) will be released in terms of Eric's work.

Oh and I stand with my point: final physics patch with nothing else than physics in August of this year.

Cheer up Nick. The glass IS half full.

Scawen has said he is working on the tyres. And I personally think we'll see something towards the end of March. Then I reckon we'll get another update by August with other stuff.

Eric will release revised car and track models, and they'll look spanking.

Victor will continue to make the the [LFS] world go round.

Have faith, good things come to those who wait, and it WILL be worth the wait. If you don't want to wait there are other lesser sims waiting for you, or you can always make your own sim like Todd is doing.

Man I hope you're incorrect and out to lunch

EDIT: ARGH TRISTAN

This post was @Nick

Quote from tristancliffe :

And I personally think we'll see something towards the end of March. Then I reckon we'll get another update by August with other stuff.
Eric will release revised car and track models, and they'll look spanking.
If you don't want to wait there are other lesser sims waiting for you, or
you can always make your own sim like Todd is doing.

This seems more reasonable, there has been a pretty serious gap in terms of the work with the models, IE the promised LX & RB4 models that were supposed to change, and still haven't. The more time goes by the more I am expecting I guess though.

Plus, Todd is not a human really so he doesn't count LOL.
BTW he's from the planet Zorkon last I heard.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Cheer up Nick. The glass IS half full.

Scawen has said he is working on the tyres. And I personally think we'll see something towards the end of March. Then I reckon we'll get another update by August with other stuff.

Eric will release revised car and track models, and they'll look spanking.

Victor will continue to make the the [LFS] world go round.

Have faith, good things come to those who wait, and it WILL be worth the wait. If you don't want to wait there are other lesser sims waiting for you, or you can always make your own sim like Todd is doing.

I hope what you say comes true, but I cant help thinking that you are upping the ante and possibly creating more hype and expectations.

I have every faith that the devs are busy, but I think it is a little bit presumptious to say exactly what will happen and when, unless you have insider knowledge...........(jk)

Well, you all assume that Scawen is working on physics.


Some say "wait, he started working on physics in January, so we will have to wait for some more months to have a patch".


But, what were Scawen doing since the release of S2 alpha ? Taking a break ?? Since August they should have been working on physics, because the aero bug is known before the release of patch P2 (on August).

He said that only now that he started to work again he will look into physics issues.... So they are telling us that from August to November they were working only on minor bugs and language patchs someway, from november to january they did nothing, and just now they will start to look into the issues ??



Everyone is saying that devs are working so hard that they can't even read the forum or write a progress report, but if you look what I said, there are good reasons to doubt that they are working that hard. They don't write a single word about what they have been working, with some unaceptable excuses (telling what they were doing just kept the community more interested in LFS rather then made ppl believe that some things were going to be done and they don't).


Everyone believe that they are working hard, but did they show any proof that they are doing it ? Ok, LFS is a big piece of work for a single guy, and everyone believes him based on what we have today, but what we have today is almost the same thing as 8 months ago, and since then we have just very small info hidden in this forum.

IMO, there is no reason to believe in this, and what makes me doubt even more is their attitude about the critics on LFS, and the way that they have lost the touch with the community.



Ok, some lucky guys may have contact with Scawen, and they say that he is working. But I would never tell a costumer from a friend of mine that my friend is lazy and he will not do his work on time (I'm not calling Scawen nor the other devs lazy)..... I believe that the devs need to be more in touch with the community like on the old days. Today they only come here when there are BIG issues that may hurt license selling (like the ATI driver's bug).

No, wait, March is just couple of weeks from here... I'd say we can start wait the patch in mid-april. But no one really knows, not even the devs. The aero bug has been known for very long time but who knows why it hasn't been fixed. I have said it hundreds of times and I say it again: the aero bug is critical (the same way as the wmf bug was in windowses). imho of course.

This all comes basically to one single thing: the devs don't tell us what is going on and this ok for some and not ok for some. I'm in the middle. But it would be nice to see some new arguments...

Too bad there is nothing good that I could drive while waiting, except the LFS which is still great fun

We are always saying that LFS is fun, but is not fun exactly what we look the most of time.

We look for race.

And LFS give us races.

We can consider that you can race everything, you can race with cars, boats, bikes, rabbits, and pc games.

It isn't necessary that a racing game be a racing car game. I mean, it is not necessary that the game imitates at max level a car behavior to become a racing game.

You can race it, and it is a race cause you are driving something daring the time.

But once you start thinking you should be driving a real car, and this game lauds that, you ask for reality, not just immersion.

LFS give us immersion and a good amount of realism, but there are lacks still there, and we are wainting for the patches which will fix those ones for a long time now.

8 months are 8 months, it is not a short time, it is a long long wait.

I try to cheat myself once in a while saying that I do not like LFS anymore, but I can't sustent this lie for more than 2 weeks.

Today I watched the Steven Kranhold video and remember how much I love this game.

Scawen has his life, has his days and his things to do in his life beyond LFS. For us, for now, just the waiting and the faith he be healthy and working for us.

Quote from Speed Soro :

8 months are 8 months, it is not a short time, it is a long long wait.

Time is a very relative thing ask an 80 year old if 8 months is a long time for me 8 months is like 2 months when I was 18 or like 3 weeks when I was 12

Quote from deggis :

I already asked about this on some other thread. I don't undestand how can anyone call LFS's damage model good at the current stage? Of course the dynamic way it's been done is way better than "scripted damage model" but currently it lacks so many things.

The damage model is good because it models the important bit well (suspension damage) without focusing on the eye candy.

Moving forwards I'd like to see aero damage modeled next, then maybe engine/cooling damage. For me improvements to the visuals (e.g debris falling off, etc.) should be last on the list, yet in many other sims all you get is the flashy visual damage, with possibly a rudimentary performance damage model thrown in.

LFS, for me, even without aero damage, has the most subtle damage model of any sim, which stems from the strong physics model. Yes there are bugs and need for improvement, but as with all things in LFS, what we have at this stage is good and it's only going to get better and better....

It seems something wrong in my diagnostic : it's not fully moon related.

Hmmmmmm <---------------(Brainstorming)

Ever thought seeing a gynecologist?

Quote from Racer Y :

You know, everyone says that. but I don't like to look at it that way.
Because looking at it that way, to me means paying about 65$ (US)
for a game that I can't get all of yet. That just SOUNDS wrong.
espescially when complete games here are around $50. It sounds better to me if you call S-1 a complete game and S-2 and 3 expansion packs.
then it sounds like a hell of a deal.

$65 does sound pricey (Xbox 360 pricey) if you had to front up the cash in one go. Somebody new to LFS when S3 is realeased in 200x may find it a little steep but for those of us that have been with it since 2003 have already had more than our money's worth Also, 36 quid is just about right for a full price game in the UK. It's the current shitty dollar that makes it seem expensive here in the US.

As you say, treating S2 and S3 as expansion packs also makes it seem great value, but the best way for me is to work out the $/hours enjoyment I've got out of LFS. So far the only computer games that probably challenges LFS in this measurement were some of the games on my old Speccy (cost the princely sum of £2.99 back in the 80's). F1GP on the Amiga may have soaked up almost as much of my life as LFS, but it cost me more than I've spent on LFS so far....

Quote from Mogar :

...But I would never tell a costumer from a friend of mine that my friend is lazy and he will not do his work on time (I'm not calling Scawen nor the other devs lazy).....

loooooooooooooooooooooooool
Of course not ^^
You're just droping a hint about that

Quote from Mogar :

Well, you all assume that Scawen is working on physics.
...
But, what were Scawen doing since the release of S2 alpha ? Taking a break ?? Since August they should have been working on physics, because the aero bug is known before the release of patch P2 (on August).

He said that only now that he started to work again he will look into physics issues.... So they are telling us that from August to November they were working only on minor bugs and language patchs someway, from november to january they did nothing, and just now they will start to look into the issues ??



Everyone is saying that devs are working so hard that they can't even read the forum or write a progress report, but if you look what I said, there are good reasons to doubt that they are working that hard. They don't write a single word about what they have been working, with some unaceptable excuses (telling what they were doing just kept the community more interested in LFS rather then made ppl believe that some things were going to be done and they don't).


Everyone believe that they are working hard, but did they show any proof that they are doing it ? Ok, LFS is a big piece of work for a single guy, and everyone believes him based on what we have today, but what we have today is almost the same thing as 8 months ago, and since then we have just very small info hidden in this forum.

IMO, there is no reason to believe in this, and what makes me doubt even more is their attitude about the critics on LFS, and the way that they have lost the touch with the community.

Awesome :ices_rofl

Edit : I can do that too: I'm not saying you're silly, I just doubt you're intelligent

Edit2 : Nothing personal, of course. I'm just applying a basic anti-troll countermeasure

rofl good one mosquito

Still everyone don't get your hopes up. Don't listen to Tristan or when a patch will be released you'll be sad it doesn't include what you tought it would. Simple logic here: all we know is that a patch one day will come and it will include physics fixes/improvements. We know nothing else, so let's assume it will include nothing else. So I still stand with my point: 6 months sounds a reasonable margin considering the time to read, investigate what's wrong, code, fix bugs, being delayed (because this is software developpement for you) and releasing something...and Eric will have done nothing (or at least it's not gonna be released in that patch).
Oh and Tristan, no matter what, the glass is ALWAYS half empty.

Quote from Nick_ll :

rofl good one mosquito

Thanks

But my countermeasure system is just lvl 1 ATM, and I can upgrade it at lvl 7 at a very low cost

Edit :
Countermeasure system upgraded to lvl 2 : multi-target locking enabled
Armed & ready
# locked targets : 3

Quote from Mogar :

But, what were Scawen doing since the release of S2 alpha ? Taking a break ?? Since August they should have been working on physics, because the aero bug is known before the release of patch P2 (on August).

Yes, exactly that.

*whine*whine*whine*moan*whine*moan*moan*whine*whine* ARRRGH

This Aero fix is obviously a fairly big bit of coding. Also it's infintesimally complicated, Cahnge a bit of code in teh wrong place and the cars are driving upside down (Or something). I am sure that if Scawen was to release an updated code that was not fully tested or implemented he would come under FAR more critism and abuse than he his already. I have kudos for the Devs for not taking the bait and listeneing the constant whining that is coming from these forums. In fact If I was one of them, I wouldn't even look at these Forums until I had done what I had to do . . I've said it before and no doubt I will have to say it again. I feel I have had good value for money out of the game (Sorry, SIM) so far. It has lasted far longer in playability than many of the other games that I have paid more money for in recent months. And it's still in Alpha. And there's still more to come!!

So all of yer getting yer knickers in a twist catch a dose of realism and wise up to the way of the world. You'll get what you get when you get it . . .

If I was a really vindictive Dev at this point I would make a list of all those naysayers and uber critics and make them wait whilst everyone else got the new release. I think about an extra month would piss them off suffiently . . .

Nuff sed. Respect to the Devs. Bra.

Actually there is a real guessing thread made some time ago about when the next patch will/would be: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=3211

Quote :

Edit : I can do that too: I'm not saying you're silly, I just doubt you're intelligent

Edit2 : Nothing personal, of course. I'm just applying a basic anti-troll countermeasure

I don't have to prove to you that I'm inteligent, because you're not my costumer, nor have paid several months ago in advance for something that I didn't release yet.


Nothing personal of course.

And just to clarify, I was NOT calling the devs lazy (I still prefer to believe that they are working hard, just having trouble to do the necessary improvements since code a software like this is far from easy, and I know that, but they could show us on what they were working on). Just wanted to give a strong example, and I run short of words to express my feelings.

Quote :

Nuff sed. Respect to the Devs. Bra.

Ok ok, let's keep the "shhhh, devs are working" for ever. We could even suggest to disable the forum, then there will not be anyone complaining here about bugs, long delays, etc. Let the devs do what they want at the time that they want, and give money to them trusting that we will have some update in the future.

Quote :

If I was a really vindictive Dev at this point I would make a list of all those naysayers and uber critics and make them wait whilst everyone else got the new release. I think about an extra month would piss them off suffiently . . .

You would have to be very very stupid for that. If you want to be a respectable dev, you need to respect your costumers.



I'm not complaining without reasons to be complaining. The difference between some here and me is that my patience with LFS is running out, and with some top grade drivers that are exploiting the physics and make LFS be like a game instead a simulator. Lots of people that say that I didn't understand the purpose of LFS is destroying it by exploiting bugs and facing LFS as a racing GAME instead a simulator.


And before someone start to criticize me, just think if you are facing LFS as a game instead a simulator. If you are using locked differentials on non-drag races, so, just shut up.


I'm not frustated with LFS itself, but with the way that ppl are exploiting bugs as if it was a normal thing, but it's CHEATING (it's the SAME thing than using wall hacks or bunny hops on FPS games), and the lost of contact of the devs with the community.


So actually I'm frustrated with the people involved with LFS than LFS itself. If LFS din't have those bugs, the situation would be different, but the fault is from the people involved with LFS. It may sound contraditory with what I've saying for some time, but it's something that I concluded now.

Mate. I understand that people are impatient for a procduct they feel they have paid for. I am all for the freedom of speech and I would never take away your right to voice your feelings on this matter. But I still feel that a certain Amount of understanding is needed here. In development terms we have been given a very unusual view of work in progress. And that is what this is, work in progress. The Devs are trying a very novel approach to generating a "game". They have asked us to trust them. they have asked for our money on the promise that they will deliver. A consept that I can only imagine working in Cyber space, because in Real Life that sort of business practice is comercial suicide. But I think this will work. Yes we have all spent our money. And yes we are all expevting more game for our dosh. But at the end of the day I have only spent £24, and I feel I have got my money's worth, new realease or not. The whole ethos of this project is that it is Indie. And in that you have to give as much as you take. This is not a commercial realease as of yet. that is a few years away yet. What would be far more constructive is if you could offer more positive critisism in the way of physics bugs or general game play issues rather than complaining about the money you have spent for a half finished game. If you want a finished game go pay £40 for a pile of shit in the shops. I for one am very happy about being part of a development community, that is worth the dosh in itself. And once the next release is due, I sahll cough up the extra 12 quid and keep going with something that I feel, in some very minor way, I have contributed too.

With all your retoric don't forget that you subscribed to an Alpha test that still requires alot of work. You paid you money for that. Not for a full game. It may take longer than you wish for, but this is not instant gratification. Very few things in life are.


Your quote.

'You would have to be very very stupid for that. If you want to be a respectable dev, you need to respect your costumers.'

If your talking about Costumers, I would like a musketeer one please. I fancy Porthos, with a period Rapier. Thankyou.

I'd like to hear something too.

Maybe Scawen be working so hard in the code that he has no time neither head to look to the forum.

Maybe he is so distant from the game that not even the forum interests him anymore.

Who knows?

Scawen said earlier he is fed up with these threads so I highly doubt he will bother responding. As for the bugs they may not be realistic but you can hardly call them a 'hack' etc. If everyone can use them then there is no 'hack' or 'cheat' about it. Tell me any game out there that doesn't have bugs :/ all the other race sims I've played have major faults to.

You have to remember when you compare LFS physics to other games the detail is just amazing. So we can only assume the coding of LFS is very complex and it's going to take Scawen longer as the game develops to sort these things out.

I'd rather wait for a patch that will solve most of the bugs without causing others than make Scawen rush and make mistakes.

Keiran

Quote :

If everyone can use them then there is no 'hack' or 'cheat' about it

Bunny hop on Counter Strike was acessible for everyone (since it was a "physics" fault, and didn't need external programs to be able to use, it was just up to your ability), but was considered cheating, and anyone cought using bunny hop on leagues was just banned.

Quote :

Scawen said earlier he is fed up with these threads so I highly doubt he will bother responding.

This don't prevent him from keep contact with the community talking about what he have been doing about LFS, asking the community what they would prefer to see in the next patch (I doubt that anyone would prefer the language packs instead physics improvements) like the old days.

Quote from Mogar :

This don't prevent him from keep contact with the community talking about what he have been doing about LFS, asking the community what they would prefer to see in the next patch (I doubt that anyone would prefer the language packs instead physics improvements) like the old days.

He never ever did ask, what you would prefer to see next. The three has good contact with the community, cause they listen to bugreports, concerns and everything, but there is a line that the community will never cross into development. And especially one thing is clear: The three decide - and decided in the past - what will come next.