I had brought up the consistency issue in the test patch thread before patch Y and I think it was mentioned in other threads (not in this subforum - mostly in General) after it.

Superhuman consistency (and inconsistency) came with Y, previous to it the AIs had their own knowledge files and had the potential to vary between them quite a bit depending on their previous experience at overtaking, etc. A common way of training them was to put the faster AIs at the rear of a field of slower AIs.

Now it's sort of funny to watch 20 AIs in a line take a turn by breaking and locking at exactly the same place and turning the car following exactly the same line - it reminds me of a conga line. But at least they can pit-in now and they're quite quicker than they used to be which makes them marginally more interesting when practicing on a track.

Quote :

So exactly what is the problem if something is posted twice, thrice, or even twenty times?

For me it's that by not using the search feature appropriately you are essentially saying: "i cba to put any effort into making a constructive post" and "i don't care what anyone else thinks on the matter".

Quote :

Superhuman consistency (and inconsistency) came with Y, previous to it the AIs had their own knowledge files and had the potential to vary between them quite a bit depending on their previous experience at overtaking, etc. A common way of training them was to put the faster AIs at the rear of a field of slower AIs.

Wow that actually sounds really cool. I suppose it came with problems though so now they're all ultra-fast robots!

Well, from what I can tell there's one single bloke coding this whole thing so I suppose you can't expect too much! He really should get some help. LOL. What a job. No wonder updates are slow (apparently).

Uau!!!!

I don't want to make the mistake of making some forum gurus angry...but give the dude a break he ain't done anything bad (in my oppinion---sorry for having a different one)....

We shouldn't be posting crap like ....nobody likes you... and stuff like that...that flash animation is simply ridiculous but made me laugh

Ikaponthus i think i know how you feel, you´re right ai is way faster but only that, ai makes phisical contact very often and wreckesly, it also behaves very consistently...
In my oppinion AI is very important is this game altough it is a mainly multiplayer game, i like playing offline too and it's great training...

Ikaponthus only one more thing i'm sure in REAL life some kids and men wouldn't be as agressive and kinda cruel, you know why? cause fists hurt in real life unfortunatly i cant punch trough my online connection or i would already done it quite a few times you know like in real life...

THIS POST IS NOT directed personaly to anyone

best regards to all

Thanks Toni, appreciate the words of support.

But anyway, I'm a lover, not a fighter.

I'm also a 105kg semi-professional rugby player. I'm not too worried about threats on Internet forums from anonymous kiddies that take themselves a little too seriously.

Cheers anyway.

Quote from Ikaponthus :

...

The reason you have had loads of grief is simple. When you made you original post the forum would have listed LOADS on threads about the AI.

It is normally GOOD FORM to post in existing threads BECAUSE they carry loads of information on the subject already and what you are posting can draw on that information.

Just starting a new thread on a well thrashed subject which is being worked on at the moment will get you hassle EVERY time.

Patch Y solved the speed problems that the old AI had. They also DO react to you now if you are infront of them, just not from the side yet. They will still ram you if you are well off pace.

HTH

Golden rule of forums I guess: re-post about a well-worn topic and, right or wrong and politely or not, people will ask why you're asking questions that could've been answered by having a look around for five minutes instead of starting a new thread whenever something occurs to you

There's a beginner forum for basic stuff, suggested improvement sticky thread, sections for skins, teams, servers, bugs, setups etc., the search function ... basically, this game's existed for nearly 6 years and this forum a large database of knowledge. If you can think of it, it's very likely it's been asked about and answered and it's easy to find stuff out.

Repeat

Quote from Ikaponthus :

Besides, my post wasn't that unoriginal anyway! I've subsequently done a search, and while there was four or five previous posts on the A.I. ramming, they were all slightly different and quite old. The sticky post didn't mention it at all and I couldn't find anything on the second issue about them driving like robots doing exactly the same lap-times. Maybe I didn't search hard enough, but I suggest that if I have to search for half an hour to find something similar then there's no real serious problem about repeating something that's be done to death anyway!

May I suggest that you did not search in the correct forum sections?

A lot of the AI discussions regarding the current state of developement happened during the last testpatch series, please do look in this testpatch subforum as it is now available due to the translation testing in progress.

Basically, we got the following improvements:
Faster AIs overall (maybe not on a hotlap but try a >10min race, or even some of the overtaking lessons in the offline training)
AIs performance according to level (normal, pro, quick and whatever) well staged
AIs take in account tyre temp and damage, can pit and do it when necessary
AIs attempt to overtake

We lost:
AIs do not learn any more (no updated .knw files)
AIs apparently behave all similarly (there used to be AIs more aggressive than others in previous patches)

So it was a major improvement overall, and it is not over - see the thread in the test patch forum and read Scawen's posts for more information.

Feel free to correct / complete my statements!

Quote :

AIs attempt to overtake

They do?

Make a race with all AI drivers (spectate), and give them all different cars. The fast ones just go straight up the arse of the slow ones. Even while exiting pit lane. Haven't seen one attempted over-taking move at all.

To be honest, by the sounds of things I would have much preferred them before!

If you have a race with only 2-3 AI (so they don't get in each others way) they all go out and do a single qualifying lap within a hundredth of a second of each other and then return to the pits. Robotic much?

I understand that it's just one guy developing this and that it's just an alpha version, but then it should be alpha price too if such major flaws are not going to be actively fixed soon!

Quote from Ikaponthus :

I understand that it's just one guy developing this and that it's just an alpha version, but then it should be alpha price too if such major flaws are not going to be actively fixed soon!

In my opinion that is why this game is the best driving game ever. LFS in alpha stage made mostly by one man is a much better game than a full game made by EA etc. It obviously takes more time to complete the various issues and additions but we should all be willing to wait if it is of the same quality as what we have already.

You can't say the AI is a major flaw, Scawen has even said he will look at it again and it's not finished. If you say that you might aswell say EA shouldn't charge £30 for NFS games until they "fix" the bad handling!

as i sit on hold w/ logitech support...


Oper, i know ur sick of some members that post nonsense, but really? just ignore them - they bought s2, are part of the community and are never going to give up their bad habits

IMO offline racing isnt as important because atm the racing line isnt ideal for sprint races or being fast. online ftw.




Wow i love logitech's hold music

:ices_rofl:spam4::spam4::spam4::spam4::spam4: :spam4::spam4::spam4::spam4::spam4::bannana_p

Ikaponthus: spammer of the month/maybe of the year

Quote from eimer_ :

:ices_rofl:spam4::spam4::spam4::spam4::spam4: :spam4::spam4::spam4::spam4::spam4::bannana_p

/me cuts eimer_'s throat. GTFO.:bluegrab::bounce8::monkey::feedtroll

lol i agree with ur edit though.

ALPHA PRICE i agree with Ikaponthus... i have seen the aplha something being used as an excuse to basicly everything that an S2 user points as wrong or defectuous, so why not an alpha price....

Calling him spammer of the year or month or even a spammer is not fair...

Moderators what do you think in your oppinion? I think this thread makes sense, do you? I think that first of all a user has the right of starting a thread he thinks is usefull, don´t you(there are exceptions i know)? and if we do a search and we only get "archive" threads shouldn't we be able to iniciate a new thread?

Thank you

You have paid and bought the full game not the alpha. It's just that the alpha is what is available and you knew full well what you were buying - nothing is hidden in the demo or the LFS sites.

Quote from xaotik :

You have paid and bought the full game not the alpha. It's just that the alpha is what is available and you knew full well what you were buying - nothing is hidden in the demo or the LFS sites.

Yes, and i am happy with what i have right now.

I think you may have missed what i was trying to say...

Just remmembered, we will eventually have to pay a little extra to own S3 when it comes out?


greets

If you were to pay an 'alpha price' for S2, you'd have to pay extra for the final S2. In the end it would still cost the same either way. The only difference is that you may buy now *if you wish* and play whatever is there now; there is nothing preventing anyone from waiting till S2 goes final, and then buying it. They'd just waste a couple of yrs time not racing ;p

Clearly there is a lot of kids posting in this thread... so what that the topic has been raised many times before, if the problem is still there (and it is in this case), then Ikaponthus is right to raise it again, and again until it is improved.

For me, I would like to see the ability to 'set' the level of each AI driver in the Options, i.e. set some as Pro some as Quick etc. to spread the field out more realistically.

Everyone has an opinion, and I guess mine will be just as valid as anyone else's

I rather think that the AI improved quite a lot if you think of offline racing as a way of training, meaning that :

- If you're slow, they will ram you from the back, so you need to go fast
- If you try to overtake, you will have to create your race line out of the standard one, pretty much as you would end up doing against some seasoned online racer (I guess that the human racer would try to drive defensively, yet keeping a fast race line)
- Consistent times force you to improve, since you know that each and every mistake is going to have a cost, maybe one of them ramming you on your back
- Their tendency of ramming you from behind or the sides will help you develop a sixth sense and teach you how to use the mirrors and look-to-the-side keys

From my point of view, even though they are not perfect, they're quite a good way of learning offline, to make the switch to online racing easier and safer, without becoming a wrecker and having decent times.

All in all, in it's current state, AI forces you to improve in order to both finish a race and doing so in a good position, if you are not seasoned enough to do so already.

Quote from Karoti :

For me, I would like to see the ability to 'set' the level of each AI driver in the Options, i.e. set some as Pro some as Quick etc. to spread the field out more realistically.

No problem to achieve something similar:
Add handicap (ballast / restriction) to a setup, save is as AI 1..20 and create an AI grid assigning these setups (you must have the AI use player setup option enabled).
The you can save your AI grid and use over and over.
The creation is not straightforward and I admitt it is a workaround due to incomplete AI setting options, but it works.

By the way, Ikaponthus, I never said the AIs could pass, I wrote that they did attempt to overtake
If you mix the field too much you get a carnage - this is the same with human players, so if you base your remarks on AI overtaking abilities on an experiment with UF1s / BF1s field no wonder you get crashes!

Quote from Mille Sabords :

No problem to achieve something similar: 8< snip

Thanks for that, I'll give it a try... still would be nice to have it in options though.

Thanks for taking the time to inform.

Quote from Ikaponthus :

So exactly what is the problem if something is posted twice, thrice, or even twenty times? Seriously? It's probably actually a good thing, shows that it's a popular issue.

But it's not an issue of it being posted once, or twice, or twenty times. It's an issue of it being posted 20, 200 or 2000 times.

Maybe after this posting you all will hate me (If you don't hate me already because of my sudden temper).

Proper way to deal these are:
1) Say that this has already been talked about in another thread
2) Give link to that thread
3) Others won't post to this thread after the link has been given

I admit, I descent sometimes to insult/etc the OP (For example thread about S3 release date), but I am not proud of it later when I think it through. I don't like that I have this kind of temper.

Quote from Mille Sabords :

No problem to achieve something similar:
Add handicap (ballast / restriction) to a setup, save is as AI 1..20 and create an AI grid assigning these setups (you must have the AI use player setup option enabled).
The you can save your AI grid and use over and over.
The creation is not straightforward and I admitt it is a workaround due to incomplete AI setting options, but it works.

I must be thick as I can't see how this works... if I assign a setup to an ai, it changes for all the other ai cars.

What am I doing wrong?