@woz, nice one
@evil pimp, right on
@evil pimp, right on
Actually.. Technically, Sumo IS a motorsport, seeing it's a competition involving cars... 
Sorry to be totally off topic but I have a question
I love racing and don't have any disrespect at all for drifting. Have seen some awsome car control with pro difters in LFS replays and in RL on youtube.Anyway to the question, I've been watching alot of video's online to do with racing and drifting over the last few months (better than the crap on telli
) and something that bothers me is that when a driver (even a race driver) that doesn't know how to drift trys to set the car up for a drift they often have great difficulty in actually getting the car to loose traction when they want it too, it normally ends up throwing them into a wall 
I think the behaviour on corner exit in LFS seems right but not so sure on corner entry (for drifting) Do you think it is too easy in LFS to enter drifts at the moment?Hmm one possible reason I could think of that would fit these symptoms is the known issues with low speed grip could this also be a factor in transients? As entering a drift has alot more transient behaviour than normal racing line.
I think it seems especially too easy to drift the low powered cars in LFS when compared to similar cars to RL. I'd value your opinion on this kamkorPL
we have a flame war here?
Btw IMO cruising(wich is not motorsport:razz should be done in Test drive unlimited,its a great game for that
realfeel racing shound be done in our best game lfs
(drifting too,coz there is no drift game any good as lfs)
Btw IMO cruising(wich is not motorsport:razz
should be done in Test drive unlimited,its a great game for thatrealfeel racing shound be done in our best game lfs
(drifting too,coz there is no drift game any good as lfs
)Imo even though its a racing sim, if its realistic, it should allow you to drift as real cars do drift.
It's hard to say really. Car I've driven mostly had bad steering and steering wheel didn't give much feedback(and made lots of resistance during transitions at sharp corners). You might say that it is harder to do entry in real life, but in real life steering wheels have more rotation than 720 or 900, which adds difficulty too. You just have to steer more, and depending on the car steering feel might be good or bad - this matters a lot. Maybe it just could be a bit more violent than it is currently, the moment of breaking the traction.
It seems to be too easy to drift low powered cars in a way, but it also depends on a setup, and you have to keep in mind that physics are a bit akward when tires get too hot.
Also in previous patch transitions were defintely too easy, but they improved a lot in current patch. They are hovewer still are lacking something compared to real life. It also could be my misjudgement, because the cars in real life have steering wheel that turn more than 720/900 degrees, which needs faster driver reaction.
I think that in overall aspect lfs has it right. It's not exactly the same as real life, but it's close/very close. It never will be exactly the same ofcourse. But it's so close that devs should make use of it in my opinion. No other sim on the market can give such feel of simulation while drifting.
More about difficulty, a drifter "BartDrift" ( you can check his profile here ) said that it is too hard to drift in lfs, explaining that it's also because current cars just aren't very good(Car with power has RR layout, car with balanse and FR layout doesn't have power). And he has a G25.
Thanks for taking the time to answer
Dang I totally forgot the wheel turn thing
yes I can see that would make it alot easier if you had low wheel turn degrees (i.e. a momo wheel or G25 set for less than equivelant of a real car)
But I also suspect that the loosing of grip and regaining of grip lacks the vielent feel that seems to be eviedent in alot of circumstances irl. But then I guess that is always going to be true to some point in a sim simply because you don't have to fight G-forces that you do irl
Irl those G-forces would be telling you "your going to die you fool!" in a sim all you feel is "hmm we seem to be sliding" so you are far less likely to overreact in a sim than irl
I'd also agree with BartDrift's view on the current cars in LFS which is what actually made me think that drifting in LFS is too easy as similar cars irl would be hard to drift to the same level as whats possible in LFS? Have you tried using LFSTweak or similar to setup a driftcar more closely approximating a rl drift car out of interest? And if so how was it?
Dang I totally forgot the wheel turn thing
yes I can see that would make it alot easier if you had low wheel turn degrees (i.e. a momo wheel or G25 set for less than equivelant of a real car)But I also suspect that the loosing of grip and regaining of grip lacks the vielent feel that seems to be eviedent in alot of circumstances irl. But then I guess that is always going to be true to some point in a sim simply because you don't have to fight G-forces that you do irl
Irl those G-forces would be telling you "your going to die you fool!" in a sim all you feel is "hmm we seem to be sliding" so you are far less likely to overreact in a sim than irl
I'd also agree with BartDrift's view on the current cars in LFS which is what actually made me think that drifting in LFS is too easy as similar cars irl would be hard to drift to the same level as whats possible in LFS? Have you tried using LFSTweak or similar to setup a driftcar more closely approximating a rl drift car out of interest? And if so how was it?
The loosing of grip and regaining of grip is mostly all setup related, meaning if you made a realistic setup. Lets say the XRG to be similar to a real car, a '90s supra, then you would notice the feel of grip loss and regain if you have driven that particular car in real life. However the setups are too adjustable . If there is power on under steer then you could just tweak the rear dampers up to compensate for the load transfer.
Regarding suspension setup most people have everything too stiff.
Back on topic:
Racing simulator or not, don't expect people to use things the way they are or were designed to be used. Also I am not going to lie, I have enjoy my share of LTC fro time to time, and is a really good use of LFS. One, cruise servers keeps most of those problematic people that drivers complain about on race servers out of them. Two, their money still goes to the creators of the game we all seem to enjoy so much for what ever reason, be it cruising or racing, it all leads to the progression of the game as a whole.
So what is there to complain about? The people that go on cruise servers or the allowing of the cruise/drift servers to exist? All the more money helps the developers out. Cruise and drift don't actually take away from the racing community, the people that want to race will race and the people who want to drift/cruise will do just that. regardless of weather there are 2000 S2 users or 10000, which would help the development more? Rhetorical, obviously, "enemy of my enemy is my friend" -said by someone other than me (even though there is no real "enemy" here).
It was lovely
I think to judge this properly I would have to experience 3rd and 4th gear drifting on dry tarmac in real life with high powered car, which I never did. Was redlining at 2nd gear, but never went with 3rd.
Hovewer one polish drifter said that drifting at 60-80 km/h is same as drifting at 130-140 km/h. The difference is that the surroundings "move faster".
And you are very true about the fact that cars from lfs would be hard to drift in real life. My Fz5 setup is pretty extreme, which makes it good and recompansates RR layout, but still, point is.. One that has knowledge about drifting, who will see lfs drifting vids with caterhams and porsches drifting will probably think it's not very realistic(by judging from a vid).
Nice to hear
thx for the info.We racers and drifters alike then await for road cars with abit more horsepower to wieght ratio
I know I'd love to race a car similar to a skyline R32/33 or pontiac gto in lfs as much as you would like to drift one 
For corner entrance I think there is two factors making that easier in LFS than IRL:
* The "fear factor", in LFS you can do anything without fear.
* Repair cost, in LFS you just press "space bar" after hitting a wall inn 80 km/h, In real life you will need a month of repairs and lots of money to fix the car... (and giving you the time to practice instead of fixing the car
)Sure I would. I'd say exactly what I say here. In case you have missed it (I've said it multiple times), I'm sure they're all nice guys, but drifting in unsophisticated and lacks class. You know what? They'd probably laugh and agree. I don't like it, but if they want to do it then as far as I'm concerned, they're more than welcome.
I have no broadband connection here. Wait a month or two.
Good post and I agree 100%
I don't care if people want to drift or cruise in LFS one little bit.
If that's true then I'd gotta try it out myself.
I really don't like the "rankings" this thread seems to build around what people are doing with LFS. The fact is; insim is versatile. This versatility allows people to create differente style of driving, cruising included.
I'd say my cruising/racing ratio is about 80%/20%. Does that make me a "loser"? Does that make me a bad driver? A guy who just likes to go slow and likes having the rewards coming the easy way? Not really. That just means that I prefer the style of play I get from a cruising server, not that I dislike pure racing, I also do that on CTRA servers, just not as much as cruising, because I get rather quickly bored of pure racing.
The reason why there are so many cruise servers and why they're so busy is that people like the extra fun they can get from a cruise server; different goals/quests, etc. It's like a game in a game. I personally enjoy a spot of pure racing from time to time, but else I feel that cruising (at a fast speed, mind you - this non-sense about people following limit speeds on cruising servers is untrue) brings more fun into my life than else.
Now, that'll probably make people just tell me "zomg, just go find another game", but I won't, because I like LFS, because despite it's numerous lacks I still get fun from it, whether it be in a form that the elitists "lfsispureracingsimulatoralltheothersfailllllzommmggg!11" don't like or not.
That's the kind of comment I'm talking about. Now. This is a game. The goal of a GAME is to have FUN. In what exactly is cruising more silly than racing? Technically, both won't give you anything else than fun. Yes, congratulations, you've won a race! So? Is that really any better than escaping the cops on a cruising server? It's in no way different. D'you think it takes more "skillz"? No, it doesn't. Both can be easy, both can be hard. Both are rewarding up to a certain point; that point being where the fun becomes something useful, and that's no where present in any game which only goal is to bring FUN.
And "For kids who can't drive a real car yet"... You know, I could do the same comparision with people racing on LFS saying that you're just people who can't drive around a track in real life so they do it on a computer game. It's exactly the same thing; it's both things you could do in real life, but you do them in a game because it's much more convenient/cheap/whatever. I don't really care whether you like cruising or not, it's just the pejorative non-sense that I dislike, here.
In what pure racing is less of a waste of time than cruising? Your point just doesn't make sense! Technically, any minute you spend on this game is a waste of time, whatever you do. Whether it'd be cruising, racing, drifting, or what not. But you know what? It's not wasted, because it's fun, that's the point.
So, to get back to the title of this topic, NO, LFS is no longer a pure racing simulation, it's a driving simulation, which includes different styles of driving, with the customizing help of insim. Does that really matter? No; in fact, it's a good thing, versatility brings attracts a bigger player base. All this versatility is great, of course, but it doesn't change the fact that people, when they're reading the tests of games, look up the screenshots and see what it looks like before they really read what it's about. Most of us here agree that LFS is highly enjoyable with its current graphics, but that part of a game is probably the most important to 95% of the player base.
I'd say my cruising/racing ratio is about 80%/20%. Does that make me a "loser"? Does that make me a bad driver? A guy who just likes to go slow and likes having the rewards coming the easy way? Not really. That just means that I prefer the style of play I get from a cruising server, not that I dislike pure racing, I also do that on CTRA servers, just not as much as cruising, because I get rather quickly bored of pure racing.
The reason why there are so many cruise servers and why they're so busy is that people like the extra fun they can get from a cruise server; different goals/quests, etc. It's like a game in a game. I personally enjoy a spot of pure racing from time to time, but else I feel that cruising (at a fast speed, mind you - this non-sense about people following limit speeds on cruising servers is untrue) brings more fun into my life than else.
Now, that'll probably make people just tell me "zomg, just go find another game", but I won't, because I like LFS, because despite it's numerous lacks I still get fun from it, whether it be in a form that the elitists "lfsispureracingsimulatoralltheothersfailllllzommmggg!11" don't like or not.
That's the kind of comment I'm talking about. Now. This is a game. The goal of a GAME is to have FUN. In what exactly is cruising more silly than racing? Technically, both won't give you anything else than fun. Yes, congratulations, you've won a race! So? Is that really any better than escaping the cops on a cruising server? It's in no way different. D'you think it takes more "skillz"? No, it doesn't. Both can be easy, both can be hard. Both are rewarding up to a certain point; that point being where the fun becomes something useful, and that's no where present in any game which only goal is to bring FUN.
And "For kids who can't drive a real car yet"... You know, I could do the same comparision with people racing on LFS saying that you're just people who can't drive around a track in real life so they do it on a computer game. It's exactly the same thing; it's both things you could do in real life, but you do them in a game because it's much more convenient/cheap/whatever. I don't really care whether you like cruising or not, it's just the pejorative non-sense that I dislike, here.
In what pure racing is less of a waste of time than cruising? Your point just doesn't make sense! Technically, any minute you spend on this game is a waste of time, whatever you do. Whether it'd be cruising, racing, drifting, or what not. But you know what? It's not wasted, because it's fun, that's the point.
So, to get back to the title of this topic, NO, LFS is no longer a pure racing simulation, it's a driving simulation, which includes different styles of driving, with the customizing help of insim. Does that really matter? No; in fact, it's a good thing, versatility brings attracts a bigger player base. All this versatility is great, of course, but it doesn't change the fact that people, when they're reading the tests of games, look up the screenshots and see what it looks like before they really read what it's about. Most of us here agree that LFS is highly enjoyable with its current graphics, but that part of a game is probably the most important to 95% of the player base.
Have you tried to hold drifts with the XRG with a "real life" setup? I.e., suspension frequencies in the 1.5-2 Hz range (2.4 Hz the very top afaik), open or low-locking diff (latter with low preload) etc. Just asking legitimately out of curiosity, not arguing at all
Ok, I agree, but can you understand that maybe some people would like to try those physics on tracks that they like for any reason? Maybe they live near one and have been there on track days, and they think it could be great to drive them at home.
It's a matter of likeness, nobody says LFS sucks because it have no real content, just people that think having them would add another degree of fun to the sim. But it's a personal opinion, just respect that.
Chill mate. I was just taking the piss.
About the people not being able to drive - it's a valid argument. Someone who can drive won't want to load a sim to drive slowly in traffic. Someone who can drive a road car might still want a racing experience that they can't afford in real life.
If you can afford a car you can go cruising. But you wouldn't want to because they're all wankers.
If you can afford a car you still probably can't afford a racing car and all the 'other' costs of racing, so you do it on a sim.
But yeah, we're just taking the mickey really. Don't take it personally or you'll end up like the FM crew when ovals are ridiculed.
If you can afford a car you can go cruising. But you wouldn't want to because they're all wankers.
If you can afford a car you still probably can't afford a racing car and all the 'other' costs of racing, so you do it on a sim.
But yeah, we're just taking the mickey really. Don't take it personally or you'll end up like the FM crew when ovals are ridiculed.
I can understand, but it aint gonna happen so forget about it.
You are quoting this in your post: "Besides, my post wasn't that unoriginal anyway! I've subsequently done a search, and while there was four or five previous posts on the A.I. ramming, they were all slightly different and quite old. The sticky post didn't mention it at all and I couldn't find anything on the second issue about them driving like robots doing exactly the same lap-times. Maybe I didn't search hard enough, but I suggest that if I have to search for half an hour to find something similar then there's no real serious problem about repeating something that's be done to death anyway!" and it says I said that ? Where?
Sorry ... not sure I understand there. Did you get the threads mixed up?
about the g force, just get a force dynamic kit....
and about the "real factor" it feels a lot more real then any other sim game i have played... a headon collision actaully scares the shit out of me compared to GT5... where the collision just stops the car to a halt, and the susension bob a little, nothing big...
and about the "real factor" it feels a lot more real then any other sim game i have played... a headon collision actaully scares the shit out of me compared to GT5... where the collision just stops the car to a halt, and the susension bob a little, nothing big...
Sure, like you see the future or something...
I'm not talking about happening or not, just stop saying how people must use a software they've paid for.
I prefer racing, but if someone likes to drive backwards and organizes the "24h of Aston reverse driving" it's not my problem, he paid for his license so he can do whatever he likes with it as long as he doesn't break the EULA.
LFS no longer a pure racing sim?
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