ye they are wicked quick put it this way look at btcc they full production cars with rollcages harnesses etc then look at superkart tkonow rollcage no harness and goes a good bit quicker shows were safety is lacking
p.s sorry for changing subject
They were quicker than an F1 car around Silverstone until the mid-late 90's.
I remember reading an article by Davis Coulthard, he tested one in Silverstone and said he'd NEVER do it again, it was the scariest thing he'd ever driven! lol!
It's always a trajedy when a racer dies. But no seatbelt? The scary fact is that without a racing harness, that is simply a disaster waiting to happen.
There's NEVER enough safety technology in motorsport. Remember the death of Aryton Senna? It was a GIANT wake up call, forcing F-1 to concede to reason and logic. A dead driver can't win anything.
Remember Dale Earnhart and his stubborn refusal to use the HANS device, calling it the noose based on his own twisted notion of "common sense"? He died of the very type of crash that would have been VERY survivable with it.
I give my sincere condolences to the dead veteran racer and all close to him, but I also hope that this incident would force improved safety. Good safety records have a nasty habit of breeding complacency.
Whoever posted this news, please provide more exact details as to the nature of the crash.
There is a letter in Autosport from someone asking is the risk really worth it? 150mph, with no crumple zones, no seatbelts...but motoGP bikes can do over 200mph, on 2 wheels, with no crumple zones.
if you read the posts above you'd realise it is actually safer to not wear a seatbelt in a kart the way karts are designed at the moment.
Everyone knows the risks when they take part in motorsport, nobody dismisses them. Dispite what you might think karting is pretty safe (hope i didn't jinx myself there). You do have freak accidents, but then again we have freak accidents in everday life.
It is devistating when someone dies in motorsport dont get me wrong, but it's not as 'un-safe' as you might think.
There could always be stuff done to make it safer, but i personally would (and i'm sure nearly every karter would agree) hate to see seat belts and roll-hoops/cages in a kart.
OMG Kitchen utensils are dangerous. They should be banned, and we should be forced to wear forged steel armour indoors at all times in case someone gets hurt.
Motorsport that is safe would be like watching paint dry. No one would bother.
Whilst it's never nice when someone gets hurt or killed, there are very very very few people in the world forced into competing. Everyone from your arrive&drive karter to Formula 1 knows the risks involved. Minimising them sensibly is one thing, going overboard is another.
And, as you cleverly brought Senna's accident up, the FIA actually did very little that would stop his accident from reoccuring. IIRC wishbones are still made from carbon fibre, and carbon fibre shards are still sharp and can still pierce a helmet. Okay, so the bottoming out ground effect loss is now reduced, but cars have, do and will always leave the track for any number of reasons. Wheel tethers just mean that the sharp pointy bits are held nice and close to a drivers head - progress.
Richard Weavers, had he lived, wouldn't have wanted fecking seatbelts fitted, and I'd be willing to put a hell of a lot of money on that fact.
Well, Dale Earnhart died boycotting the very thing that would have saved him. He died from basilar fracture, i.e, his head was ripped off his neck (internally of course, with snapped spinal cord, the skull pulled off the collar bone).
Since Senna's death, a LOT has changed unless you've been living in a cave. And it doesn't really need regualtion. When a well loved member of the sport dies so pointlessly from such a common accident, it's enough to wake up ayone who really cares. It sent shockwaves. The carbon fiber monocoques had their sides redesinged, sio the head is more recessed relative to the op of the sturcture. Not to mention universal adoption of HANs device as basilar fracture became such a common cause of death among racecar drivers. The idea of stopping wheels and suspension form flying off was to stop wheels from flying and hitting the drivers head like what happened to poor Senna. The real trajedy with Senna was that his crash was supposedly VERY survivable. People are still trying to improve safety. For instance, deformable walls on high speed ovals have already saved so much unnecessary death and injury.
There's no denial that nothing's perfectly safe, and some risk is definitely acceptable. But to die unnecessarily makes no one happy. To race, one must first stay alive. And again I stress a dead or seriously injured racer can't win anything.
He didn't want to wear it, and took the chance/choice not to. 99% (probably 99.9%) of drivers don't use HANS yet.
Yes lots has changed. But not much regarding Senna's accident, unless YOU have been living in cave.
I'm agraid it does. If you asked people whether they'd make a dangerous car that could win or a safe car that would never win, they'd all go for the dangerous one. So you have to regulate safety.
Senna wasn't actually 'loved' at the time - he was the hardened, seasoned pro, who wasn't going to be nice to the young guys like Schumi.[/quote] It sent shockwaves.[/quote]Agreed, although it is usual to suggest the medium in which the shockwaves occur
Which wouldn't save Senna. You're mistaking Karl Wendlinger's monaco '94 accident for his
Wouldn't have helped Senna (I'm guessing this is all in reference to me living in cave).
Except the tethers allow a wheel+suspension to hit drivers, so apart from helping spectators it's done little for 'safety'.
That's not the tragedy, that's the irony. The tragedy is his death, the irony is the fact he shouldn't have. And there is no supposedly about it - fire him into that wall 100 times and he'll live 99 times.
No shit sherlock, another one of your astute observations - They are still trying to improve safety. Wouldn't have realised if it wasn't for your post.
We haven't mentioned that, we're just saying that the 'necessary' bit is the fact they choose to do a very dangerous task, and are therefore aware of the risks.
Good job you stressed that (twice) 'cos we've all be wondering why Senna stopped winning.
Since 2006 (maybe 2005 not sure) all FIA championships (F1, WRC, WTCC, ETCC, GP2 etc, etc...) have made the HANS device compulsory, most top national seris have made it compulsory eg. Formula BMW, BTCC, British F3 and British Formula Renault.
Where you wont see many HANS devices is in club racing, but i expect that to change soon, that accounts for alot of drivers but not 99% .
Other than that nice post. We should call you the Bulldog! Ripping people apart like that!
When you consider the amount of deaths for something little and boring as DIY work around the house I think motorsport is a hell of a lot safer than most things you could be doing in your life. How many people are screaming out for better safety to the people who fall off their ladder and smash there heads off the wall while doing a bit of work around the house?
I don't think any clear information has been given out on the accident but I believe (can't remember where I read it) that there was contact.
As has been mentioned people aren't forced to race something they don't want to. This person in particular has obviously been involved for quite sometime in the series so knew the risks involved, thats part and parcel of what makes racing exciting.
Seat belts in karts would be deadly, end of story. Two karts I was following tangled into a corner at about 60mph where the guys front hit the other karts rear. The kart was sent barrel rolling end over end about 6 times. Luckily he was thrown clear and was only a bit shaken up. Some people aren't so lucky, I've also witnessed someone end up landing still stuck in the seat with his head against the ground. He was taken off to hospital.
The other thing is those karts have nothing that could soften the impact, or protect the driver. So when you hit anything, you will hit it and get very high decelaration and 0 protection from the outside world. Only thing I can think of is that the steering wheel would snap off when the dirver hits it, making sure that the steering wheel won't harm the driver. Just a guess, let's not get (again) heated up
Congratulations, Trsitan you've once again revealed your ignorance of racing world insider knowledge. If only you have any idea what kind of innovations are getting tested and implemented over time. Remember when Indy cars that went into walls tail first, causing one bakcbone spinal injury after another with alarming consistancy. Then came mandatory rear aluminum crash absorbing structures. And it has saved so many injuries and lives since then.
As for those carts, all you really need is some pretty open roll cage that provides a safety cell around the driver with minimal weight gain and negative effects. In fact, a strong driver tub and some roll hoops could help too. And relying on flying off the car to save yourself is to relive the vintage eras (aka cars that were moving coffins that actually looked like and shaped like coffins).
Last time I checked, HANS is COMPULSORY in F-1 AND WRC (aka top of motorsport). Case closed on the non-use of HANS. F-1 implementation wsa easy, and WRC implementation was initially a bit troublesome, same as many new devices that go through teething problems. But problems are sorted out thanks to people who are exact opposies of tristan (aka actually try solve problems instead of firing barrages of insults to massage his ego and hide his personal insecurities about his own intellect). Doesn't take anything more than a level headed person with a real backbone to figure that one out.
Boy do I miss the Senna era when competiton was so heated. Like it or not, it's people like him that truely embody the true spirirt of F-1, to push the limits and achieve as far as one possibly could. Imagine F-1 loaded with a bunch of mediocer folks turing it into a slow-mo crashfest. And being tough on newbees is actually good for them (in a purely sompetitve way e.g. not using illegal cheats such as sabotage of course). You don't master racing by being pussyfooted around.
And a few years ago people complained of Ferrari dominance. What a load of crap.
There are unsung heroes behind the scenes who work their fingers off to protect the lives of those who are in motorsport, then there are silly people like tristan who simply don't care about or love anyone on anything.
Here's a little challenge to you tristan:
If you are really half as smart as you claim to be, be a better person and actually educate us with well checked out facts, not resorting to insults and any of this pitiful monkey business.
So - since when did we get onto a discussion about indycar crash structures? All I said was that there has been surprising few safety improvements to prevent another Senna accident. Oval racing crash structures haven't got anything to do with this top or anything I or anyone have stated so far.
And you call ME ignorant?
Right, so you think that 30 drivers using HANS means everyone should. F1 might be the pinnacle of motorsport, but it's not the top in every sense. Real motorsport is the club level where the vast majority of drivers are. Only a tiny percentage get to the 'famous' level. Even then, you've stated just 2 race series where it is compulsory.
Hardly. That's like saying Saddam Hussein killed a fly, so lets shoot every Muslim.
Apart from the year or two of testing, where nobody could find a safe comfortable way of integrating HANS into an F1 cockpit. But apart from that it was totally straighforward.
You'll notice I only fire the barrage of insults at those who truely deserve them. And I haven't seen you solve a single 'problem' either, so on this basis it applies to you too. Massage your 4WD Turbo ego by posting about nothing but that (until recently, when you've started posting different things, all of which are equally useless).
So you struggled then?
So you've forgotten the Senna era then?
True
Welcome to the 2007 F1 World Championship
You don't master anything by pussyfooting around, which is why I don't pussyfoot around and pretend you have anything useful to say.
Agreed on this one
I take safety very very seriously. Both mine, my friends, other drivers on the track with me, marshalls, spectators etc. I buy the best safety equipment I can afford, and ensure that people who work on my racing cars are safely equipped to do so. Saying I don't care is a very severe suggestion. But I'm also not averse to risk - it's why I do it in many ways, and it's why people do skydiving, quad-biking, land-speed record runs etc. To make it 'safe' is to make it 'dull'. I don't believe in reacting to one-off accidents in an extreme manner. If I crash my F3 car because of a component failure, I don't want to MSA to make the regulations more and more complex.
I could do that, yes. I could (and do) use facts in my arguments, which is something you have yet to do at all on this forum. Or I could be nice to everyone (mostly) like I always have been, and just vent my anger on fools like you. Being a better person has little to do with it. In real life I have no such qualms about 'being a better person'. I help people in many aspects of my life. I spend a lot of my time helping good causes, be they charities, racing teams, customers, friends. Judging whether or not I'm a good person simply because I pick holes in your poorly thought out and often irrelevant posts isn't really the way to do it, now is it.
These things only weigh about 130kgs without driver. Not to mention the weight that would add to the kart but I can't see that being any safer, more dangerous infact.
Being strapped into something that has no crumple zones with a roll cage is still going to be deadly as your body is going to absorb a hell of a lot of energy.
For the amount of people who race karts the death ratio is very very low.
Why does someone getting killed in karting always spark a big reaction on safety while someone getting killed in say, rallying, doesn't? For the amount of karters in the world theres very little deaths, way less ratio than rallying or other forms of motorsport.
Adding a rollcage to a kart would, AFAIK, make the kart roll over more times since it would provide pivots for the kart to roll on. The whole point of karts is that it's the most basic form of motorsport around and in that comes an element of danger, which in the last few years has been greatly reduced without sacrificing the fun. IMO we can't go much further with safety in karting without making them into little cars
.
Or I tried to but... well, anyways 
