I noticed a change in the points system since last S1 season. Then the nr 5 of a pool got just as much points as the winner of the next pool. Now things have changed and its nr 11 that got just the same points as the winner of next pool.

I've got the feeling that hotlapping is getting too important this way. In most pools we will start with 16 - 18 racers. There are always of few DNF's and this means that when you just manage to get in the faster pool you can cruise to the finish and have the same amount of points as the podium of the next pool.

Of course is achieving the podium much more rewarding than finishing last a group ahead. But the points system does not reflect this! I think it would be better when the difference between the pools is smaller. 3 or 4 points difference between pools would both do fine.

As been said before, this is not a full-range season. Merely a short testing season - to test things

We will discuss about the points (and several other things) with the staff before OLFSL starts the first full range season.

Quote from varjsa-9 :

As been said before, this is not a full-range season. Merely a short testing season - to test things

We will discuss about the points (and several other things) with the staff before OLFSL starts the first full range season.

I know it is
That's why I posted a comment. I think it could be better. Let me explain it a bit more. You know I want to drive for fun but I am not that stupid that I don't realise that a good hotlap is the key to a good end result in this point system. So I feel myself forced to train as mad to present a good hotlap.

This realy drives me bonkers. I don't like to hotlap. I just want to race with you guys. But in the end I also want a nice position in the overall rankings (if I should deserve it).

The 3 points difference in the pools is the best option in my humble opinion. Everyone will present his best time but is not pushed to hard to achieve the maximum.

Did I see that a hotlap is mandatory? More than 110 subscribed but only 5 pools are created. Lookes a good decision to me. When someone does not take the time for a cruise around the circuit, why should you want him in the race?

Well, was that your humble opinion, or a provocation?

After experimenting several options, I think hotlaps are the best way to organize even pools. So some hotlapping is mandatory, it will also ensure some level of pratice for all racers, which will improve the racing experience further. So it's not just cruising around the track. Besides, one doesn't need to use a lot of time to get a decent position in grid, I did about 30 laps to get mine.

Your opinion about 3 points difference is noted, however.

Quote from varjsa-9 :

Besides, one doesn't need to use a lot of time to get a decent position in grid, I did about 30 laps to get mine.

I must agree with this one.. As FienDi's wife I know everything there is to know about his use of all the free time. Let me tell you, that the time he has left when he's done updating the site or improving it or what ever he needs to do - OLFSL work in short - is not much. He uses like 3 hours a week to practise - and yet he's once again in pool 2. And that has nothing to do with the fact that he's married to the Pool Manager! So it doesn't really take much time to get a decent hotlap.

He goes to work 5 days a week as most of us do, he's in school 2 evenings a week atm (last fall it was more than that), does all the league work, drives himself a decent hotlap, spends time with me.. Trust me, if it would take a lot of time to get a decent hotlap, he would have to stop racing! There's only 24 hours in his day too

Quote from varjsa-9 :

Well, was that your humble opinion, or a provocation?

Suggestion, not more then that. Maybe I am not realy humble
I noticed a major change with the S1 league and wondered if it was overdone. The use of hotlaps is a very good idea.

I also know you both have lots of work to do. Just leave the points system as it is when you think this is the best option. I'll join anyway.

Hotlaps for deciding pools is a great idea, some people can have alot of time to spend hotlapping and some dont...hell its sometimes hard to get the time to race on Sundays (especially if your married )

Although I was in Pool 3 and I had done about 20 hotlaps, I dont think that I would have improved that welll if I done 120 hotlaps, your either fast or not (in may case not :P)

Right now I have more spare time to practice , due to the fact my wife is working different working times, but that can all change next month, so in the full season I probably wont be able to practice all that much.

The point system works well in my opinion, ususally the hotlap times are soo close that you could just miss out in pool1. If HeerBommel's idea came to play you would lose alot of points just because you are 0.01 of a second slower.

So a person finished 1st in Pool2 gets the points as the person finishing 11th in pool1, is the right? can it be? well yes.

For example 0.32 seconds was the hotlap difference between 11th in pool1's hotlap and 1st in pool2's hotlap, not a great deal but HeerBommel's idea would mean that Pool2's 1st is worth less than pool1's 11th :s... na I like the point system as it is.

The pools are fairly organised.

Quote from Pabs(Sco) :

For example 0.32 seconds was the hotlap difference between 11th in pool1's hotlap and 1st in pool2's hotlap, not a great deal but HeerBommel's idea would mean that Pool2's 1st is worth less than pool1's 11th :s

I didn't mean the hotlap but I do mean the race result. ATM the hotlap is all important. Place 11 is about the last place you can finish. Then you had real problems. Place 1 is a top achievement. Even a pool lower.

When I start to train on hotlaps I get faster every day (less everyday, but always getting faster). Need about one hour training. Does not realy matter how much longer. It has to do with learning the old brains to feel the track.

I forgot to train after 'hotlap closing time' and lost a lot of speed. Could not get near the hotlap at sunday. Sigh ... But the races were good. Less speed and less errors than the ones I left behind me.

Am I defending a lost case with the points system? If so just let it be. I thought I had a good idea

Either way the points go, hotlapping is like qualifying in a real race. Some people are good at it, some people are not. Some people are better at managing a real race and will generally finish well no matter what server they are on. The fact remains that if you qualify further up, you have a better chance for more points.

However, some people are in it to win races, and the server and resulting points don't make much difference. They will post a "sandbag" hot lap to insure they get on a server where they can win the race. If the point system does not take this into account, then there will be some very fast racers opting to post a hotlap that puts them onto a lower server so they can win there and possibly gain more points than they could on the higher server.

I have also seen the case where a person is able to post a fast hotlap, but they are terribly inconsistent, and don't have a clue how to drive in traffic. These people are generally outclassed durring the race and have a tendency to just get in the way.

The Hotlap system has flaws, but so does every other system of setting the grid. We could use average times from the last race, or the last race's finishing time overall to set the grid for the next race. But this won't work unless we use the same cars all the time.

There is no perfect system and some people will do silly things to try and take advantage of it. Personnally, I am just looking for good races and the league has done a fine job of that so far.

regarding the points given, i think it would be nice to give an extra point to the racer that achieves the fastest lap and also to the racer that leads the races for the most time. That should prevent the lower pool racers from feeling unhappy, regarding the upper pools' points (or sth like that ).

Maybe point penalties for reckless driving, or avoidable 'mistakes' like tapping someone on a turn because they felt optimistic about an impossible overtake?

Quote from Hallen :

However, some people are in it to win races, and the server and resulting points don't make much difference. They will post a "sandbag" hot lap to insure they get on a server where they can win the race. If the point system does not take this into account, then there will be some very fast racers opting to post a hotlap that puts them onto a lower server so they can win there and possibly gain more points than they could on the higher server.

The T7R team posted on their website/forum that they adopted extactly this as a premeditated team strategy for the OLFSL Aston National race (they failed to pull it off though). I commented on it on their forum.

This behaviour on their part confirms that the OLFSL points system must be designed in such a way as to prevent this, for individuals, and perhaps especially to address premeditated team strategies.

Solar Hydro

Quote from Solar Hydro :

The T7R team posted on their website/forum that they adopted extactly this as a premeditated team strategy for the OLFSL Aston National race (they failed to pull it off though). I commented on it on their forum. ....

Yeah and i wrote that one of our drivers didn't read the rules/points-system properly. If so he would have known and uploaded a faster time because you get always more points in higher pools ;-) and that's a good solution.

And btw. it was not a T7R Team strategy, it was the strategy of one of our drivers.

I see no problem if team members try to arrange their hotlaps so they all race on the same server, it can be more fun that way. But that would be assuming that the team drivers were close in speed in the first place and that they would have most likely all been on that server anyway. I have posted hotlaps that were not my best for that reason, but I would have been on the lower server anyway because my best speed was not that much faster. After my first few league races when I was used to the procedures, well then it was every driver for themselves

Quote from BBO@BSR :

Yeah and i wrote that one of our drivers didn't read the rules/points-system properly. If so he would have known and uploaded a faster time because you get always more points in higher pools ;-) and that's a good solution.

I was thinking about this when reading what Solar wrote. That's why I wanted to keep the difference between pools high enough, to create a motivation to do your best possible lap - and also obtain some experience too. There are flaws with the current pointing system, but so far I haven't seen any that would not. At the moment I'm giving to our current pointing, but as said before; this is an issue we are going to deal with the staff (like the rules too :nod.

About giving some "extra" points for fastest laps - in other words, to "Our Champs".. maybe we should do that finally. I originally dropped that idea because I thought that the guy who wins the pools, automaticly does the fastest lap also - which could have created a "Schumacher-effect", one guy dominating leaving no chance to racers behind. This has been proven to be wrong idea several times after that. Besides, if someone really is that good, why should he be "penalized" for that anyway

After reading the stats for Pool 5 and seeing the final combined result of the 2 races in pool 5, i came to the conclusion that this might not be very fair (i mean, right now it is fair, because those are the rules and thats how it works).

I've only taken time to analyze my race: in the overall result for pool 5, i came in 9th In the 30 laps race i finished in 4th, i was the highest climber, did the fastest lap, did the 4th fastest 1st lap, 4th in lap time stability, 4th in average laptime, bset split 1, best split 2, best possible lap, 4th top speed.
Now, in the short 4 laps sprint race, i was last (13th) because i was rammed unfriendly at least a couple of times, and had similar bad results in the other stats.

It seems to me that my 9th overall result is due to the 4 laps sprint race has too much weight in the overall result. 13 + 4 = 17 / 2 = 9?
The sprint race should count 25% at the most.

p.s. don't see this as a rant, i'm just a bit unhappy with the result and took the chance to point out some things that in my opinion are flaws in the system. But anyway, this is the Pre-Season


Edit: just saw that in race 1 i got 61 points for finishing in 10th place, 1 lap behind...

Quote from Palex :

It seems to me that my 9th overall result is due to the 4 laps sprint race has too much weight in the overall result. 13 + 4 = 17 / 2 = 9?
The sprint race should count 25% at the most.

p.s. don't see this as a rant, i'm just a bit unhappy with the result and took the chance to point out some things that in my opinion are flaws in the system. But anyway, this is the Pre-Season

This bad balance with sprint & main was noted before and after race and will be fixed if events like this will happen in future too.

nice keep up the good work

Quote from varjsa-9 :

About giving some "extra" points for fastest laps - in other words, to "Our Champs".. maybe we should do that finally. I originally dropped that idea because I thought that the guy who wins the pools, automaticly does the fastest lap also - which could have created a "Schumacher-effect", one guy dominating leaving no chance to racers behind. This has been proven to be wrong idea several times after that. Besides, if someone really is that good, why should he be "penalized" for that anyway

I totally agree with that. I am dissapointed with movements in F1 due to the Schumacher, although God knows how I "like" him.

For a number of points gap between pools, I have no idea what everything can influence the fair scoring (slower cars, longer races, accidents... must be a load of variables to take into account), so I just believe that the current points system is good.

Eventhough some facts I can see in score table are questionable for me, I would have to put some more serious investigation and done races analyzing, to be able to post here any real critics. And more importantly, suggestions for an improvement.