Ok, I've decided to give rFactor a try, and with the SCC mod it offers just what I wanted... Prototypes and Limerock.

Here's my problem: No matter what FFB settings i choose (both Real Feel and the default FFB) it becomes nearly impossible to make any steering corrections. Once the rear end steps out at all, that's it, I'm spinning out. For example, in LFS @ SO6, every once in a while I get into the chicane too hot and the rear steps out a little. Most of you have probably experienced that... We all know one quick correction of the wheel will bring the rear right back in. Feels just like IRL. Same thing with trail braking.
In rFactor, I can set it up so everything feels great, good wheel resistance, good sensitivity, feedback, etc., until the time comes to catch the rear end... then it just doesn't work. Full lock won't even prolong the slide, I just spin immediatley. Any sort of trail braking also sends me spinning right away (yes I have messed with bias to no avail) Let it be noted that when FFB is turned off completely I can magically catch slides again... the only way I can use FFB and make steering corrections is when there is virtually no resistance on the wheel, which feels horrible....

So, in hopes that someone else has experienced this I'll post up my current rFactor FFB and wheel settings and maybe someone can point me to a solution....

Momo Black
Profiler Settings:
Overall 95%
Spring effect 0%
Damper effect 0%
Enable centering spring checked, 0%
Wheel sensitivity 80%

In Game:
FFB strength 80%
Effects: Full
Speed Sensitivity: 20%
X Axis (wheel) sensitivity: 40%
X Axis deadzone: 0%
all digital rates at 0%

That's about it. Thanks for reading.

Hello,

Sorry I can't help you directly as I don't have your type of wheel but have you tried http://forum.rscnet.org/ , there is a vast array of help for setting up FFB for the various sims and wheels.

It's a pain in the neck setting up wheels to get the right 'feel' for the various sims unfortunately

Firstly you should set the max FF to slightly above 100% in the profiler, lower than 100 creates weird effects.

To get rF to work well you need to use real feel and a decent mod, there aren't very many that are properly setup but more are coming. I wouldn't touch the SCC mod I'm afraid to say it's not going to be any good until the physics are redone from scratch. If you want to race prototypes I'd suggest you try the Fabcar mod, which is far better but they're not really quite the same.

Some of the mods I've fouind that work well with real feel are:
Corvette C6
BMW E21 320
Rallycross Group B
W196 ('55 GP)
Holiday Preview mod (preview of the WSC 1970 mod with Porsche 911, 914, 906 and 910)


For the real feel settings you have a file in your rF directory called RealFeelplugin.ini

Open it up and you'll see an entry for each car you drive, I find these settings give good feedback on most cars:

[car name]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=2800.000000
SteeringDamper=2500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=-100.000000
SmoothingLevel=0

If the forces are the wrong way round (ie. the wheel won't straighten up in a straight line you need to change the polarity of the FFB mixer value (different cars will require a different setting for this but with a Logitech wheel most need a negative value).

In rF ensure all sensitivities are set to 100% and dead zones to 0 to get linear control. The FF strength should be set at -100 for a Logitech wheel (otherwise forces go the wrong way) and if using RealFeel set the rF FF level to low (but not off).

The Corvette does feel great with real feel....

Quote from ajp71 :

For the real feel settings you have a file in your rF directory called RealFeelplugin.ini

[car name]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=2800.000000
SteeringDamper=2500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=-100.000000
SmoothingLevel=0

I've edited the .ini but not with your exact values. I'll try it.

Quote from ajp71 :

In rF ensure all sensitivities are set to 100% and dead zones to 0 to get linear control. The FF strength should be set at -100 for a Logitech wheel (otherwise forces go the wrong way) and if using RealFeel set the rF FF level to low (but not off).

This I haven't tried. I figured out the negavtive values part (although with Real Feel it seems like I have to slide it back and forth between + & - for each different car... gets confusing after a while) but when I put x axis sensitivity to 100% it becomes almost uncontrollable. Perhaps using your other settings along side will help...

Ten seconds after I posted this I seemingly arrived at a setting that fixed my problem. I changed profiler sensitivity to 100% and in game x axis sensitivity to 20%. Still, I'm off to try your settings. Thanks very much

Quote from AlienT. :

Hello,

Sorry I can't help you directly as I don't have your type of wheel but have you tried http://forum.rscnet.org/ , there is a vast array of help for setting up FFB for the various sims and wheels.

It's a pain in the neck setting up wheels to get the right 'feel' for the various sims unfortunately

rsc has been down for exactly how many days I've had rFactor...

Ok.... changing FFB settings hasn't resolved my problem.

IRL, when you lose traction on the rear tires, you counter-steer to gain it back. Everyone always says: Steer INTO the slide. Common knowledge....

In rFactor, it's the exact opposite for me. Steering INTO the slide makes you spin, steering AWAY from the slide regains tractions. It's completely backwards! Keep in mind I had this problem right away without any mods or any adjusting of settings, and yes, I do have the FFB set at a negative value for my Logitech wheel. Everything feels as it should until the back end steps out... then it's either steer the wrong way to save it (which I am not willing to do, for obvious reasons) or spin.

The wheel isn't the problem as it functions perfectly in LFS...

Any ideas?

That'll be the case with most mods and all the default cars, due to inaccuracies in the physics entered by the creators and modders. It does not have to be so, if you put the 'poor tyres' on the corvette and try to provoke the rear end, applying opposite lock and balancing it with power and steering, does work fairly well, but a MOMO with its limited lock isn't that suited to driving road cars.

I'd try 0% speed sensitivity and 50% axis sensitivity and no more than 20degs of lock if its the corvette you're driving.

Make sure you get a very high framerate, and if you haven't done so already, set 'frames render ahead' to zero in a tool like RivaTuner. At 100+fps and this setting, your inputs will be immediate. For the corvette, the realfeel setting would be more like a max force of ~6500.

Even at 50fps, my inputs feel ok, no huge delay... it's the fact that the steering feels backwards when trying to countersteer. Still, I'll give that render frames ahead setting a try. Thanks.

Go to garage at the “general” setup tab, find “steering Lock” and increase it.
It will help you catch a slide but it may make the car more nervous.

Keep in mind that driving experience in rfactor differs from mod to mod.
Most of the mods out there don’t have proper suspension and mainly tire curves so they do not respond naturally…

Quote from kaynd :

Go to garage at the “general” setup tab, find “steering Lock” and increase it.
It will help you catch a slide but it may make the car more nervous.

Keep in mind that driving experience in rfactor differs from mod to mod.
Most of the mods out there don’t have proper suspension and mainly tire curves so they do not respond naturally…

I've increased the steering lock already, but it just makes things worse unless I'm steering AWAY from the slide. This happens with all mods and original ISI cars.

Quote from titanLS :

I've increased the steering lock already, but it just makes things worse unless I'm steering AWAY from the slide. This happens with all mods and original ISI cars.

This is a major flaw in the ISI physics unfortunately that dates back at least to F1C and probably before where it feels like once you go past about 10 degrees, an invisible pole extrudes from under the car and you pivot on that and no amount of counter steering (actually makes it worse) or anything else will allow you to catch the slide.

There are a few mods around that are better at feeling normal, but I think there's something amiss in the core code that no modding can correct (I'm not a physics guru by any stretch of the imagination, but did some modding for a while).

Silly question, have you tried setting the FFB slider in rF to a negative value? I don't know why, but Momos / Logitech wheels require a negative value, else they'll pull the wheel in the direction you turn rather than push. It won't cure the physics issue, but it makes things a little more natural feeling.

I haven't touched rF in a while (although I do need to complete the 'stang mod I've been working on thanks to Scott Stockton for allowing me to use his model) so not too clued up on what's good and what's not so good currently.



Regards,

Ian

I have set the slider to a negative value...

How is it possible that ISI released a game in which opposite lock does not straighten the car out? Every other rfactor user can't be experiencing this! I don't even feel like I have 10 degrees of freedom before that "pole" comes out of the ground. Any counter steering what so ever causes an immediate spin!

You can countersteer in ISI games you just have to predict the slide instead of relying on the feedback… it’s something you just get used to.
If Rfactor was as good as LFS physicswise, then no one would play LFS

My problem seems to be that even when i predict a slide, as soon as the rear wheels lose grip i suddenly have no wheel resistance to counter-steer against. The wheel turns freely. If i steer AWAY from the slide, there IS resistance and the car corrects itself.... I'm about to give up....

That sound's like reversed feedback. some mods don't need the feedback strength to -100

Also go to the RealFeelPlugin.ini file and set the FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=0.000000 for the mod you are currently using. if you haven't deactivated real feel allready.
It doesn't work with all mods so maybe thats the problem.

Quote from kaynd :

That sound's like reversed feedback. some mods don't need the feedback strength to -100

Also go to the RealFeelPlugin.ini file and set the FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=0.000000 for the mod you are currently using. if you haven't deactivated real feel allready. It doesn't work with all mods so maybe thats the problem

I've tried the slider both ways, and have learned that adjusting the max value to a negative in the reelfealplugin.ini file essentially does the same thing, allowing you to skip adjusting that in-game slider with each different car and mod. However, it's not helping. Either the wheel turns away from center violently, but i have resistance in the proper direction to counter steer, or the wheel acts as it should but provides no resistance in the direction of opposite lock, and i constantly spin out. Does this with all mods, real feel or not, even the new C6 Vette, and original ISI cars such as the rTrainer. Extremely frustrating....

So I guess this is normal. You just found a good reason to praise LFS

That's disappointing. Why aren't people raising hell about this!?

How can anyone support this game with such a major flaw? How has it become so popular? How was it even released like this? Is everyone happy driving like this, knowing that pushing the car even slightly over it's limit will inevitably result in a spin out? Not even that, but the fix is simply to steer the other way and defy everything you've ever learned about car control...

If you folks find rFactor hard to drive, then i guess it`s good u n00bs stay away from that game then.

Didn’t say it is hard… it always depends on the mod anyway.
Generally it feels unnatural.
Can’t you state an opinion without insulting?

Quote from frankwer :

If you folks find rFactor hard to drive, then i guess it`s good u n00bs stay away from that game then.

Thanks for the info. Your contribution to this post and willingness to help is greatly appreciated by everyone....

Quote from frankwer :

If you folks find rFactor hard to drive, then i guess it`s good u n00bs stay away from that game then.

I don't think they are saying its hard.....just shite.

Sorry if someone has mentioned it already, but have you put the Force Feedback to -100%? (errr Reverse FF) Positive 100% on all MOMO wheels will make rFactor feel really strange, and it has to be reversed to have the proper feel for some reason.

I gave up yesterday and turned stability control on... it didn't fix the physics error but it allowed me a little more room to learn the dynamics of the game and figure out my Real Feel settings.

Still, the steering is backwards when it comes to correcting oversteer, and I can consistently prevent a spin by steering strongly away from the slide. Go against all logic and try it! BIG physics oops....

Hmm well a momo isn't a good wheel. I can't speak for any other car than the corvette, but while it is hard to find this narrow 'band' around the limit, once there, its all fairly ok, no issues regarding oversteer. I know that at least 95% of the mods and all the default ISI content are too flawed though. imo..

this is an aid free lap at the ring for example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY5ssFnBTCI