Don't worry about people (me included) posting whiny posts about progress reports
LFS provides fun racing and will not die even if the devs decided to quit. The community likes/loves the game/sim and there are helpful and nice people online all the time to race with. Not that everyone is that nice, I'm there too
You know, this thread is just a big Troll started by three silly men, clamoring for a progress report, abusing hypocrisy and insincerity, neglecting all awnsers we write (and dev's opinion and arguments also). Edit : I can prove it.
Read it, you'll see : apart their recurrent whining posts, our awnsers, and some RBR hints, this thread is near empty. Edit : giving you a hint : trolls I'm talking about are from Brazil. But be careful, there are many other brazilians, who aren't trolls.
Scawen said he already started working on theses bugs, but there is a huge research/experiment job before coding (and IMO a lot of testing after coding) let's give him some time to do that.
So don't base your decision on this thread.
Edit2 : thanks to the three Trolls for helping Dev's marketing :mad:
Edit3 : when they were 5 years old, all my nephews and nieces had the same kind of behaviour than these trolls, but they've stopped at 7
Okay, I'll try to use my selective memory and forget about this troll thread, and I'll try, I say try, to buy the license next month (when I get my allowance). Thanks for making me wake up Well... it is almost 1pm here, so I should try getting up
P.S. mosquito, is that an upscale picture of the brain? It seems so large...
Hmmm, not these ones. You know, there are several kinds of Trolls, and some require a big brain for all that high level skills and this big memory.
Giving you another example : an elephant's brain is 4 times heavier than the human ones, but we can't say an elephant is more intelligent than a human.
Yea, I'm really liking this game, and it'll be my first online purchase too!
And I agree with people saying we should get an update, or a report, just to know what they're doing. Some people know what they are doing, but not everyone, it should be made a little more public.
Try to analyse if it worths or not without looking to hardcore supporters of LFS (like mosquito, and every other ppl that go crazy when someone just don't love LFS and acts like those extremists that are protesting about the Mohammed cartoons...... yes, their reaction look very much from those, but they can't put my computer in fire unfortunately for them) or to who only blame LFS (usually fans from arcade games like NFSU, that want NOS, upgrade kits and other bullsh*t in LFS).
The first group will tell you to buy of course, the second group will say to don't buy of course.
Think if YOU are satisfied with LFS today, and if YOU think if it worths the license (won't take in count that you've used the crack) in terms of on-line races (the reason for LFS exist IMO), more tracks and more cars.
Keep in mind the following: the goal of the developers is to make the most realistic simulator by far ever in the history, without worry if it will be too difficult to drive or if it will please the noobs, and without real cars (except for some) or real tracks to avoid commercial pressures. This is what I strongly support.
Today, LFS has a great potential, but it is still not as good than it can. Since I said, it has already a very good base, but it's unpolished and have bugs. Some of them are quite old, and may frustrate some experienced drivers (like me, that play LFS since september 2003), and LFS don't have any physics update since August 2005. We will probably have a patch, that can come in one month, two months, one year or only in 2008 (or even later), and what will come in this patch, we simply don't know.
I think that for a demo racer, the other tracks and cars, and the clean on-line races between experienced and licensed drivers, the license worths the 24 pounds. The races are much more fun, challenging and clean, the tracks are very well designed, and there are some very nice cars (that makes IMO real tracks and cars don't needed). This is what comes with the S2 license. The LFS' engine itself is the same for everyone, so what I think that is not good is not exclusive for S2 licensed drivers. The S2 content (tracks and cars) I think that worth the money
For me, the fun that I had in S1 time worths 24 pounds (I had much more fun with S1 than I had with since S2 was released). And any next stage that I feel that it worths the money, I will buy it.
You can bet that the beta testers (and some Ocrana guys) have loads of informations that we don't know. And hope that anyone of them leaks some info like someone did with S2 pre-alpha... :-P
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Amazing! mosquito, with a voice from beyond the grave
I'll come this night, and i'll eat all your blood. You'll die! Pouh! :spidereek
ps : just kidding, don't be scared
Edited for more precision : As I understand, you labeled me as a hardcore supporter, the first group. But I've just told him that
Strange, isn't it? /Edit
Edit : sry, going to take a shower, I'm wet :ices_rofl
I think THERE lies the problem... You see the potential and you think it's wasted, because nobody seems to care about the polishing (like you said)... When I look at the potential of LfS, I KNOW, that we're just one or two steps away from having THE ULTIMATE racing simulator, lightyears away from every other sim... But the main difference between your and my point of view is that I understand, that all it takes to get that is a little time and a little patience... You might not be able to see the progress, but you can TELL for sure that there is progress...
I think, you ALL (critics and "fanboys") should let go a little... Have some patience and I am sure, you'll not be disappointed... And if you're that fed up with the bugs, take a break, play something else for a change (maybe even a whole different type of game, RTS for example), and when the patch is ready, return and have a look at the changes... All this thread brings is bad feelings, just stop it please...
But do you agree that those two steps need to be taken, or else it doesn't help to have all this potential ?
We know that some day on our lives they will be taken, we will all happy when this happens (including Speed Soro, that makes too much drama about his points of view, and is too much exagerated on the way that he puts his thoughts in words). I believe that if we weren't so near from a great simulator, there won't be those discussions here in the forum.
And what is even more irritating that some users here (a lot of them actually) acts as if they were Scawen's mother, trying to make a "critics shield", and do not accept opinios that are not "ohhhh my God, LFS is perfect ! ". If you just say that LFS is not perfect, the "troll killers" come to "elimiate" the threat.
This is just like the radical muslims do. Here is a discussion forum, the opinion of other ppl should be respected and HEARD, and the extremists should not be tolerated, don't matter if in favor of LFS or against LFS. And I'm not on the "against LFS" group, like some try to make me, Speed Soro, and other drivers that like LFS but don't like the bugs look like.
[edit]
Just to clarify, I have no prejudice about muslims..... I just don't agree with extremists, be them muslims, catholics or whatever the religion, that uses distorted views of the sacred words as excuses for their acts.
No one here is saying it IS perfect. It has flaws. But it has potential. It has potential with the flaws you mention. If it had no flaws it couldn't, by definition, have potential.
We are discussing it, and yes we are protecting LFS. Not because we are Scawen's bodyguards, but because so many people in this thread seem to think that with a few minor bugs LFS is crap. They (and this might apply to you) just don't get what LFS is about, how it's being developed, and why people enjoy LFS S2 Alpha as much as they do.
Mosquito, I won't even comment on your post. If you think I'm a trolol, OK. For me you are a fanboy, so I guess that makes us even.
Luiggi, a friend from the Brazilian LFS community, made some tests and posted this:
Translating:
Testing from 0-100km/h with some cars.
All cars with the original setup, the closest to a street car, both the suspension and gear ratio, tyre pressure and geometry.
XFG (GTi), 120bhp, 940kg went from 0-100km/h, 3rd gear, in 7.9 seconds!
XRT (GTT0, 247bhp, 1223kg went from 0-100km/h, 2nd gear in 5.5 seconds!
The data was taken from the slow motion replay. IMO, they seem a little optimistic.
With the drag setup the times won't be even 10% better.
Take your conclusions.....
___________________________
Why protect it? When you over-protect something, the results won't be even as great as if you were looking for the flaws every single time and making a point about the flaws ecery single time. We NEVER said that LFS was crap. If that is what you tought my position was, i'm sorry, but you are DEAD wrong. If I tought LFS was crap, I would have never bought it in the first place.
And yes, I understand completely what LFS is about, and how it is being developed. The thing that annoyes me is that just one small act by the devs would end this. 2 or 3 phrases per week-month telling what they are doing in a sticky thread. That's it.
AFAIK, LFS is about being a hardcore simulation, to go as near as possible from the reality on physics as the computer power that we have today allow, without the pressure of big software companies nor companies (be them car manufacturers, sponsors, etc. ) , and without focus on entertaining features nor eye-candy features.
At least this is what I understood reading the main site and the forum when I started with LFS, way back ago. This is a bit different of being a software that the main developer do it as he wants, when he wants, and everyone should not question the way that he releases his progress to the public or question the way that things are being done IF the questions have the intention to make LFS even more near from reality.
So, this is what I think LFS is about, and this is what made me interested on LFS, and still keeps me interested.
Could even be one report every 3 months, it would be already very nice, and avoid some ppl loosing interest in LFS. Believe me, some don't even come here in the forum to tell that is unsatisfied, just leave it, and LFS may loose some potential S3 buyers. Ok, a small group, but the number of LFS costumers is already quite small. When I say that, is because I'm interested that the devs have the sufficient money to keep the LFS development going, and make LFS stronger.
You mean customers right? Well, I suppose when S3 is released they will see review, preview or receive newsletter from the devs. And think "Oh, I have license for that game, great!" Giving us a report every now and then wouldnt hurt, but is it that important? It takes time from working and that isnt good if you want those patches is it? And Scawen has said that he doesnt want to report anything wich is not maybe released or is just boring testing and coding stuff. I want those bugs fixed too but I have time to wait.
You completely left alone what I declared the main difference between our point of views (intentionally?)... That there is one party tired of waiting and the other one that has patience and understands, that such crucial and deep changes take time, and the devs are just back to developing... Granted, a report here and then would be nice, but then Scawen stated already, that he wouldn't do such thing unless he really has something to report about... And when he says that, I have no reason not to believe him... In the meantime, I just race the way it is now, despite I myself get fed up with the tires and the aero sometimes... I know, it will be fixed some time (soon? maybe, if I just wish it enough? ), that gives me enough confidence to just lean back and wait...
I know people don't like comparing things, but I will. Look at racer, there is only ONE dev. every time a new version comes he tells people what the fixes, adds are, and he might give them info on what he's working on for next versions. Then there is a thread for giving suggestions, the dev. looks there now and then, tells people why it would(n't) work, and that's it. Progress on racer is very slow too, but the people over there don't have this kind of thread! What is the big difference about waiting for this game, and for racer? The community? The money you paid for LFS (racer is free)? As long as everyone knows the devs. are still alive, and the devs. don't say they have quit, everything is fine, right?
I can't see the devs giving up on this project easily. It takes a lot of guts to quit a job and build something up from scratch. I've personally seen my parents build up two business and they work 9am - 7.00pm 6 days a week and travel all over the place.
Personally I have total faith in the devs and you can clearly see work is still taking place in LFS with Victor working on pubstats. If you have doubts then don't buy the license, in all honesty it's your lose.
I just said the quitting thing as for example, I don't think they would quit what they're doing, but on the other hand, you never know what happens
But I will buy the license!
If you take in count that the license is to the extra content and racing with licensed drivers, I think that it's a good deal, since the LFS' engine (physics, graphics, multiplayer, sound, etc) is "free" (i.e. the demo racers have access for free).
If you like the way that LFS behaves in the demo, you will like more when you get the license.
I said that he shouldn't hear the fanboys, nor the ppl that don't like simulations. The other ppl he can (and should) hear before his decision.
Victor is the one that we see working more, since he is who keeps LFSworld and the forum working. Scawen's and Eric's jobs are the most silent now (and Eric's is even more silent). But I think that they decided to not doing progress reports to avoid what happened here in the forum when Victor was misunderstood on a interview and ppl thought that S2 was comming by Xmas 2004. So to avoid ppl complaining about delays or features that didn't come, Scawen decided to be silent about the developing process, what I don't agree, and there is nothing I can do (specially because I've already put my money on this project).
But talking about my relationship with LFS, I stopped with it for a month, and will not try it again until there are physics change or the new brazilian championship season starts. I want something to have fun after my job, and not a thing to get more stressed, that is what LFS became to me.
And if the championship happens before the new patch (which will likely happen, although it has not been decided the tracks or cars, nor the lengh or date to start), I WON'T use locked diffs (except if ppl decide to use the FWD cars, that have a huge dissadvantage if not used) nor the aero bug (except if there will have a race on the oval track with downforce cars, again because there are huge dissadvantages).
